I wonder if any region, in any era, ever, could boast a line-up so deep in excellant boxers and great matchups. The "locals" included Eddie Booker, Archie Moore, Jack Chase, the Hogue Brothers, Johnny Romero, and Oakland Billy Smith among others. They entertained guests like Charley Burley, Holamn Williams, the Cocoa Kid, and more. Lloyd Marshall, Turkey Thompson, Bert Lytell, the list goes on.
Who do you figure to have been the best of the locals? Of the invaders? Why is this period in boxing history given such short play compared to others?
California Middles and Light heavies in the 1930s
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tiredoldngrey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 23 May 2005, 12:36
1930s and 1940s California Welterweights and Middleweights
Harry Otty wrote a terrific biography about Charley Burley.
Yes, there were alot of top welterweights and middleweights
active in California during the late 1930s and early 1940s.
Just think.....there were alot of other good fighters in the
same weight divisions who were active in California from
the 1920s to the late 1930s. They included Dave Shade,
Bert Colima, Oakland Jimmy Duffy, Jackie Fields, Ace
Hudkins, Joe Roche, Young Corbett III, Ray Actis, Fred
Apostoli, Ceferino Garcia, and Henry Armstrong.
- Chuck Johnston
Yes, there were alot of top welterweights and middleweights
active in California during the late 1930s and early 1940s.
Just think.....there were alot of other good fighters in the
same weight divisions who were active in California from
the 1920s to the late 1930s. They included Dave Shade,
Bert Colima, Oakland Jimmy Duffy, Jackie Fields, Ace
Hudkins, Joe Roche, Young Corbett III, Ray Actis, Fred
Apostoli, Ceferino Garcia, and Henry Armstrong.
- Chuck Johnston
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tiredoldngrey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 23 May 2005, 12:36
Locals
I could not be 100% sure about a couple of the names on your list of great Californians, but I know that few of them where actually born in the state.
Booker was from Texas - though he was an amateur in San Jose; Chase was from Colorado and was a pro for about six years before settling in California; Moore, as we know, came from St Louis and I think Billy Smith was from somewhere in the mid-west. As I said though - I am not sure.
A friend of Burley's told me that Smith was from Nebraska. I would be interested to find out for sure.
Marshall, Burley and Holman Williams were (as you mentioned) 'invaders' from other towns - though Burley and Marshall were state champions.
Bert Lytell claimed to be from Fresno and the Hogue twins were from Jacumba, Ca. Romero - one of the most overlooked fighters from that era - was (I believe) a native.
You are right when you say that the era and location gets 'short play'. Why this is so is a mystery to me. There were many great fighters and match-ups and the fights were well-attended. Also, as you mentioned, some great fighters went west to ply their trade. The area had something more than fair weather going for it.
Chuck knows his stuff when it comes to this area - maybe he has some insight.
Booker was from Texas - though he was an amateur in San Jose; Chase was from Colorado and was a pro for about six years before settling in California; Moore, as we know, came from St Louis and I think Billy Smith was from somewhere in the mid-west. As I said though - I am not sure.
A friend of Burley's told me that Smith was from Nebraska. I would be interested to find out for sure.
Marshall, Burley and Holman Williams were (as you mentioned) 'invaders' from other towns - though Burley and Marshall were state champions.
Bert Lytell claimed to be from Fresno and the Hogue twins were from Jacumba, Ca. Romero - one of the most overlooked fighters from that era - was (I believe) a native.
You are right when you say that the era and location gets 'short play'. Why this is so is a mystery to me. There were many great fighters and match-ups and the fights were well-attended. Also, as you mentioned, some great fighters went west to ply their trade. The area had something more than fair weather going for it.
Chuck knows his stuff when it comes to this area - maybe he has some insight.
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tiredoldngrey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 442
- Joined: 23 May 2005, 12:36
I was reading Charley Burley: The Life and Hard Times of an Uncrowned Champion by Allen S. Rosenfeld and that is what got me thinking about this subject. In that respect the book was a double treat as it also has a very detailed account of the time period in Pittsburgh boxing as well and a lot of space is dedicated to Zivic and Conn. My father grew up in Pittsburgh during that era and later sparred with Fritzie, whose autograph I have on my desk.
But in California...All that was going on from 147 to 175 pounds, plus Manuel Ortiz was active and there were some decent Heavy weight prospects in the mix. I agree that Romero is overlooked- tough game when you win over 130 fights with 85 kos against tough opposition and no one has ever heard of you.
The Hogue brothers are of particular interest to me. From what I have read they were raw when they began as pros and were straight ahead tough guy fighters. They were in against some of the most skillful and clever boxers of all time , these apparently crude face first sluggers, yet they each had pretty impressive records and Shorty was 4-1 or 5-2 (on that order) against Archie Moore. It makes me think that there was something a bit more skillful to their game than the writings would lead one to believe.
But in California...All that was going on from 147 to 175 pounds, plus Manuel Ortiz was active and there were some decent Heavy weight prospects in the mix. I agree that Romero is overlooked- tough game when you win over 130 fights with 85 kos against tough opposition and no one has ever heard of you.
The Hogue brothers are of particular interest to me. From what I have read they were raw when they began as pros and were straight ahead tough guy fighters. They were in against some of the most skillful and clever boxers of all time , these apparently crude face first sluggers, yet they each had pretty impressive records and Shorty was 4-1 or 5-2 (on that order) against Archie Moore. It makes me think that there was something a bit more skillful to their game than the writings would lead one to believe.
Hogue had a great record until he met Burley, who ruined him as a contender. Hogue was ranked 3rd best middle at the time - not surprising considering the opposition he was beating. After the KO loss to Burley he was never the same fighter.
The Hogues were a tough family - one of them was a rodeo rider - and they fought some great fighters. A friend and sparing partner of Charley's told me that Shorty was the better of the two fighters and that his style was a little like that of Vinnie Paz in that he could fight rough if he had to, but that he had very good skills too.
The story about how Moore finally got revenge against Shorty - who by that time was on the slide - is interesting. He did attempt a comeback in 1944/45, but it lead nowhere.
I have included additional information on the Hogues (and the problems with Burley's early career in Piitsburgh) in my revised edition of the Burley book.
The Hogues were a tough family - one of them was a rodeo rider - and they fought some great fighters. A friend and sparing partner of Charley's told me that Shorty was the better of the two fighters and that his style was a little like that of Vinnie Paz in that he could fight rough if he had to, but that he had very good skills too.
The story about how Moore finally got revenge against Shorty - who by that time was on the slide - is interesting. He did attempt a comeback in 1944/45, but it lead nowhere.
I have included additional information on the Hogues (and the problems with Burley's early career in Piitsburgh) in my revised edition of the Burley book.