Sparring sessions that you wish you could have seen.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2005, 18:29

sparring sessions can be quite deceiving... many a time ahs a yougn fighter held his own at a sparring session for a champ or a great fighter, then gotten his ass kicked out in the real boxing world.... IE corn griffin.. was the talk of the boxing wolrd at primo carnera's training camp before the title defense against max baer... and we all know what happened to corn.

and i imagine that not all great boxers try their hardest every second of every sparring sessions

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 20 Sep 2005, 21:06

Ahh how the soft and romantic lens of nostagic sentiment has given rise to making Primo credible. Rob Calloway would dispense with the Ambling Alp in no time flat.

Sorry I just had one of my "Primo" moments. I'll be ok probably just something I ate.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 20 Sep 2005, 23:15

i no the actual answer to this thread.... "Who gives a crap its sparring sessions."

how about i start a new thread....

shadowboxing you wish you saw!

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 20 Sep 2005, 23:59

De La Hoya was rather well known for "ambushing" people in sparring sessions. In particular, he got Genaro Hernandez good. Hernandez had been out of the gym for awhile due to hand injuries and had only been back a day or two and agreed to work some rounds with Oscar who had probably just turned pro. Anyway Oscar jumped on him- there being press people there- and everyone went away awed by how he'd handled Genaro. Of course three or four days later when Hernandez was giving much more than getting, there were no reporters in the gym. Tyson also got a lot of those ambushes when he was young.
I would personally be very interested in seeing DeWitt and Hagler; DeWitt was very very good when he was good and incredibly bad when he was bad.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 21 Sep 2005, 01:39

..ezzard's main sparring partner in his cininnati days was lloyd gibson. though esentially a prelim fighter he does have a win over archie moore...but on a foul. one fitgher he did have a fullnumber one was ezzard himself...he knew his style so well that ezzard couldn't do much with him..which was perfect for ezzard as it kept him sharp in training. marshall later became a mail man...really a wonderful guy.

jersey joe walcott calimed he got thrown out of joe louis's training camp for dropping joe and making him look bad in general. this was at sometime during the bomber's pre war II championship reign.

i heard walcott on a radio interview just before the first louis fight and the interviewer said "Joe Louis said he doesn't remember you" and Walcott said "I'll make him remember me" and though many (including me) thought it was just prefight bombast....but then we know how right he was, don't we. (rhetorical question, no ? needed. while on the subject of writing....box buzzy....i admire your linguistic skills...but aren't you getting a tad purplish lately?examples upon request)

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 21 Sep 2005, 02:56

jaclem who were joe louis sparring spartners and rocky marcianos(besides tommy harrison)

do u know the sparring partner who floored the rock before his fight with cockell?????

- i know right before the marciano 1st fight, walcott knocked out main sparring partner pete nelson.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 21 Sep 2005, 12:16

Rory McCloskey wrote:i no the actual answer to this thread.... "Who gives a crap its sparring sessions."

Some sparring sessions are more entertaining than actual fights.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 22 Sep 2005, 01:48

brockton....one of joe louis' main sparring partners was roscoe toles, whom louis had knocked out early in the bomber's career. he too was from alabama but made his home in detroit. louis used him for years. toles was a decent fighter in his own right.....he practially made a career out of fighting arturo godoy and he fought several of the guys louis himself fought in title defenses. ( i never refer to the bum of the month tour in those words, for reasons i may go into some time, though i doubt it.)

wille reddish was also in the louis camp for a while.

marciano used keene simmons as his main sparring partner before the first walcott fight because simmons was brilliant at boxing in walcott's style...hands down, walkaway....quick changes in motion and rocky was quoted as saying how much simmons helped him prepare for walcott. simmons was one of those chameleons who could imitate a lot of styles, but his walcott was considered to be his best.

for anyone interested in more about toles, check him out on boxrec....almost an example of a black fighter's career in his time.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 22 Sep 2005, 14:05

Muhammad Ali & Michael Dokes.
Barry McGuigan & Ken Buchanan.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 22 Sep 2005, 19:44

KOJOE90 wrote:
Rory McCloskey wrote:i no the actual answer to this thread.... "Who gives a crap its sparring sessions."
Some sparring sessions are more entertaining than actual fights.

that may be, but its for nothing but practice for one guy who is often much more talented the the others..esp. when you get to the real important fights like title fights and eliminator fights. reminds me kind of amateur boxing without the helmets

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 23 Sep 2005, 14:20

Rory McCloskey wrote:
KOJOE90 wrote:
Rory McCloskey wrote:i no the actual answer to this thread.... "Who gives a crap its sparring sessions."
Some sparring sessions are more entertaining than actual fights.
that may be, but its for nothing but practice for one guy who is often much more talented the the others..esp. when you get to the real important fights like title fights and eliminator fights. reminds me kind of amateur boxing without the helmets

In some cases it is just practice, but some sparring sessions get very heated, competative and personnel such as Ali & Tiger Williams and countless 'Kronk Gym Wars'.

Also often fighters have 'sparring sessions' behind closed doors in gyms without headguards or big gloves that are basically full on fights. Ray Leonard claimed to have a few of these preparing fpr the Hagler fight. I think Quincy Taylor may have been one of his sparring partners then.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 23 Sep 2005, 14:33

d'amato said floyd patterson had many 15 three minute rounds in secret sparring sesions. he partner was usually jimmy slade...and odd choice as slade was a spoiler and made everybody he fought...including patterson..look bad, even though he usually lost.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 24 Sep 2005, 18:07

I would like to have seen some of the sparring sessions in the 70s philly gyms... there were some wars going on there I've heard...

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 30 Sep 2005, 16:29

The one where Bobby Czyz and Tony Ayala Jr. go at it.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 01 Oct 2005, 05:09

Moseley and Hernandez used to spar at the LA Gym and occasionally at a gym in Azusa that I have never been able to locate. Zach Padilla, the 140lb champ that burned up the Compubox thing, used to spar with them as well In fact I read that it was a headache after sparring with M<oseley that led to the doctor and his retirement due to a hazardous condition that was discovered.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 01 Oct 2005, 12:42

Decagon wrote:Sonny Liston vs. George Foreman: Crossroads. Liston was getting old, and Foreman had just won the Gold Medal. He was called an Uncle Tom for waving the American flag just after Tommie Smith and John Carlos had raised their gloved fists in the air, in protest. Foreman was scared shitless, but later on, he wouldn’t take shit from Liston; it’s too bad they didn’t spar just a month later.

I read a number of times George saying that Sonny was the only man he ever met that he could not back up.

But to be fair to George at the time it was somewhat a case of man against boy.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 01 Oct 2005, 14:33

Decagon wrote:Here are a few:

Harry Greb vs. Jack Dempsey: There are so many rumors as to what actually went on in this session that we can’t really be sure what happened. People say that Greb befuddled the champ and that Dempsey never fought Greb because of it. Of course, Dempsey wasn’t fighting anyone during that era.

Walker Smith vs. Willie Pep: Amateur bout, actually. Pep had no idea who Sugar Ray Robinson was, but the two got into the ring, and Robinson completely outclassed the much smaller Pep.

Charley Burley vs. Jersey Joe Walcott: The Negro Welterweight Champion and the World Heavyweight Champion go at it. Walcott was knocked unconscious.

Charley Burley vs. Marcel Cerdan: This would have been Burley’s title shot; the two met in the gym once and Burley was said to have gotten the better. Jake LaMotta had the mob connections and he got the shot.

Cassius Clay vs. Ingemar Johannsen: It’d be nice to see a complete recording of this.

Sonny Liston vs. George Foreman: Crossroads. Liston was getting old, and Foreman had just won the Gold Medal. He was called an Uncle Tom for waving the American flag just after Tommie Smith and John Carlos had raised their gloved fists in the air, in protest. Foreman was scared shitless, but later on, he wouldn’t take shit from Liston; it’s too bad they didn’t spar just a month later.

Michael Grant vs. Ray Mercer: I went to college with Grant and met him a couple of times in passing. In 1996, when Ray Mercer was getting ready to fight Lennox Lewis, Mercer hired Grant as a sparring partner, because Grant was Lewis’s size, and he could emulate Lewis’s style. Grant was still pretty green, having only had four years of boxing as an amateur and a pro, but he decimated Mercer from all reports. Mercer went on to lose a close one with Lewis.

Genaro Hernandez vs. Shane Mosley: This was the first time I heard of Shane Mosley. For years before his IBF World Lightweight Championship win, Mosley was a gym legend throughout Southern California. Everyone was talking about him and going to his fights. Right before Genaro Hernandez moved up to 135 to challenge Oscar de la Hoya, Mosley shattered the 130-pound champion’s nose in sparring.

Floyd Mayweather vs. Kid Diamond: Mayweather looks terrible in sparring; a lot of good fighters do. Diamond ambushed him and broke his ribs when Mayweather was training for the first Castillo fight.

You half right about Dempsey, he wasnt fighting anyone that mattered.

Robinson didnt completely outclass Pep. He won a close decision which many considered a bad decision.

When Cerdan lost the title to LaMotta Burley was in semi-retirement. To say LaMotta had mob ties is a bit of distortion. He was a top contender for the MW title as long or longer than Burley and eventually had to throw a fight and pay a substantial sum to gain a deserved title shot years after the fact.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Oct 2005, 15:17

i dont believe burley knocked walcott unconsiouns when walcott was heavyweight champ.

Nile4000 · Post by **Nile4000** » 05 Oct 2005, 16:42

Mark Breland vs Milton McCrory.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 06 Oct 2005, 01:23

..brockton boy...i don't beleive it either. it just doesn't sound right...plus i'm sure somebodyt from the press would have been there and it would have come out.

KOJOE90 · Post by **KOJOE90** » 06 Oct 2005, 12:40

BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:jaclem who were joe louis sparring spartners and rocky marcianos(besides tommy harrison)

I have read that the following fighters worked as sparring partners for Joe Louis.

Pal Silvers
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=011942

George Nicholson
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=040226

Tiger Hairston
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=059750

Marty Gallagher
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=021876

Leonard Dixon
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=021852

Roy (Ace) Clark
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=040444

Cecil 'Seal' Harris
http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=026753

Hope that helps BB49.

Boxscribe · Post by **Boxscribe** » 06 Oct 2005, 14:31

Burley's daughter told me that her dad ko'd Walcott in sparring. Impossible to verify, but Burley was once employed as a sparring partner when Joe was training for Charles. The only newspaper references I have been able to find were that Burley left camp early after struggling with Jersey Joe. As Burley was in semi-retirement by that time and needed the money it is unlikely that he quit camp of his own accord. Possible though.

Burley was supposed to have met Cerdan when the future champion made his first trip to the USA. Burley was mooted as an opponent for Cerdan's tour, but apparently the idea was quickly dropped.

Burley would probably have beaten Cerdan at the time - Marcel was lucky to last and get the decision against Anton Raddik.

Burley also ko'd Elmer 'Violent' Ray in sparring. Heavyweights were usually slower then Burley and he hit hard enough to ko bigger men if allowed to land (Rusty Payne was another). It is possible that he ko'd Walcott - if not likely.

Klompton is right when he mentions LaMotta's lengthy wait for a title shot. Burley had offers too, but wouldn't go into the tank.

Sparring sessions that you wish you could have seen.

Burley - Walcott - Cerdan