Hagler vs Monzon

[Rover]

I thought Hagler clearly beat Duran and Vito (the first time).
If you want to bring up Monroe I (unfortunately no film of that, as far as I know), we should also bring up Monzon's three losses (no film of them, either, as far as I know).
I agree with Saad; Hagler very close.

[max hord]

Hagler

[Ezzard]

Didn’t old Briscoe back Hagler up with body shots and force to box his way to victory from the outside.

I’m in the camp that says this is a close fight. But I ultimately go with Monzon 2 out of 3. I just think that when Hagler was forced to lead he lost a tiny something…

I’m not convinced they would be epic fights. Too much respect. Lots of skill and high quality boxing.

[mcentepede]

I have to agree that while both are legends...prime vs. prime Hagler has the advantage, and later in their careers Monzon was extremely good but still dropped by Valdez. Emile Griffith gave Monzon 2 tough fights and Monzon fights usually in his back-yard and Griffith was damaged goods and clearly didn't want to hurt anybody after killing Parret. Still boxed well vs. Monzon. Briscoe had a draw vs. Monzon in Monzon backyard...probably a win anywhere else and went back and took Monzon the distance again. This was prime Monzon by the way. I am not sure where you guys get your facts. In the underbelly of Philadelphia, Hagler had tough fights and lost some decisions, but youtube posts them now...we see that he did well against Worm and Watts. Hagler didn't look bad and was actually cheered by the hometown crowd. Anyways he destroyed these guys in rematches...and probably would have destroyed Ray Leonard too in the re-match but Leonard was chicken. Karma. Leonard got K.O'd by Hector Camacho to shut that case. I am still trying to figure out how Carlos Monzon beats Roy Jones yet alone Hagler at middleweight?

[Rover]

I have to agree that while both are legends...prime vs. prime Hagler has the advantage, and later in their careers Monzon was extremely good but still dropped by Valdez. Emile Griffith gave Monzon 2 tough fights and Monzon fights usually in his back-yard and Griffith was damaged goods and clearly didn't want to hurt anybody after killing Parret. Still boxed well vs. Monzon. Briscoe had a draw vs. Monzon in Monzon backyard...probably a win anywhere else and went back and took Monzon the distance again. This was prime Monzon by the way. I am not sure where you guys get your facts. In the underbelly of Philadelphia, Hagler had tough fights and lost some decisions, but youtube posts them now...we see that he did well against Worm and Watts. Hagler didn't look bad and was actually cheered by the hometown crowd. Anyways he destroyed these guys in rematches...and probably would have destroyed Ray Leonard too in the re-match but Leonard was chicken. Karma. Leonard got K.O'd by Hector Camacho to shut that case. I am still trying to figure out how Carlos Monzon beats Roy Jones yet alone Hagler at middleweight?

Thought Hagler/Monroe I wasn't televised?
As for bringing up Leonard/Camacho...

As for Monzon and fighting in his own backyard, he fought several times in Europe (France, Monaco, Italy, Denmark)--all in title defenses--as well as one in the U.S.
That's as silly as saying Hagler fought mostly in his backyard (the U.S., where all but one of his title defenses took place).
And I slightly favor Hagler here.

[giacomino]

I have to agree that while both are legends...prime vs. prime Hagler has the advantage, and later in their careers Monzon was extremely good but still dropped by Valdez. Emile Griffith gave Monzon 2 tough fights and Monzon fights usually in his back-yard and Griffith was damaged goods and clearly didn't want to hurt anybody after killing Parret. Still boxed well vs. Monzon. Briscoe had a draw vs. Monzon in Monzon backyard...probably a win anywhere else and went back and took Monzon the distance again. This was prime Monzon by the way. I am not sure where you guys get your facts. In the underbelly of Philadelphia, Hagler had tough fights and lost some decisions, but youtube posts them now...we see that he did well against Worm and Watts. Hagler didn't look bad and was actually cheered by the hometown crowd. Anyways he destroyed these guys in rematches...and probably would have destroyed Ray Leonard too in the re-match but Leonard was chicken. Karma. Leonard got K.O'd by Hector Camacho to shut that case. I am still trying to figure out how Carlos Monzon beats Roy Jones yet alone Hagler at middleweight?

Um, Monzon made 14 defenses. He made three in Argentina in his "back yard." If he were champion today, we'd all be calling him a road warrior. But don't let a few facts get in the way of your rambling "argument."

[mcentepede]

I will just post the facts now...instead of "rambling arguments" as some guy said, obviously he didn't like my opinions, so maybe the facts will speak themselves. I "counted them up one-by-one" Still perplexed where you guys get your information. In today's computer era...can't really hide much now. 20 years ago, maybe. Carlos Monzon fought 84 fights in Argentina out of his 87 wins...(100 total fights) Then 5 times in Italy/Monaco and 4 times in France. 4 times in Brazil which is right next to Argentina. One time in U.S. against some guy called Tony Licata. As the World Champion, he fought in Argentina 7 times, 6 times in Italy/Monaco (where he was popular). He had some non-title fights thrown in there too, sometimes in another country. His best oppnents were Briscoe in Argentina, Mantequilla in France, Griffith in Argentina again, Valdez in rematch in Monaco where he was dropped in his last fight. 63 of Marvin Hagler's fights took place all over the U.S. which is really many individual counties that are not too united. 4 outside the U.S. where he knocked them out (he doesn't trust judges remember). More money in the U.S. but Hagler still barely got paid decently. 6 times in rough Philly and 7 times in crooked judges Nevada. As the Middleweight Champion, Hagler defended 3 times in his home county of Massuchusets. Where he knocked them all out. In All, Hagler fought 35 times in his Home state out of 67 fights (or 52%) Carlos Monzon fought 84 times out of 100 (or 85%) in his home backyard. These are the facts, look them up all you want....they not going any-where.

[Rover]

I will just post the facts now...instead of "rambling arguments" as some guy said, obviously he didn't like my opinions, so maybe the facts will speak themselves. I "counted them up one-by-one" Still perplexed where you guys get your information. In today's computer era...can't really hide much now. 20 years ago, maybe. Carlos Monzon fought 84 fights in Argentina out of his 87 wins...(100 total fights) Then 5 times in Italy/Monaco and 4 times in France. 4 times in Brazil which is right next to Argentina. One time in U.S. against some guy called Tony Licata. As the World Champion, he fought in Argentina 7 times, 6 times in Italy/Monaco (where he was popular). He had some non-title fights thrown in there too, sometimes in another country. His best oppnents were Briscoe in Argentina, Mantequilla in France, Griffith in Argentina again, Valdez in rematch in Monaco where he was dropped in his last fight. 63 of Marvin Hagler's fights took place all over the U.S. which is really many individual counties that are not too united. 4 outside the U.S. where he knocked them out (he doesn't trust judges remember). More money in the U.S. but Hagler still barely got paid decently. 6 times in rough Philly and 7 times in crooked judges Nevada. As the Middleweight Champion, Hagler defended 3 times in his home county of Massuchusets. Where he knocked them all out. In All, Hagler fought 35 times in his Home state out of 67 fights (or 52%) Carlos Monzon fought 84 times out of 100 (or 85%) in his home backyard. These are the facts, look them up all you want....they not going any-where.

Monzon had 3 "title" fights in Argentina.
You're comparing fighting in one's ome country to fighting in one's home state (and not "county"--LOL!).
You're exempting the U.S. but not Argentina. That's just a double standard. And judges can be and have been incompetent all over the place; NV is no different. Do you want to go over some horrid decisions in other states?
Hagler fought all but one title fight in his home country. Monzon fought all but three title fights outside his. That's a fact. None of Monzon's nontitle fights is ever cited to define his legacy. In fact, I know of no nontitle fight of his on film except Briscoe II.

[giacomino]

Rover, I am taking a wild guess that he is taking all this from a misreading of Monzon's record on boxrec and has never seen him fight. Reminds me of TML, who once said Sturm would easily beat Monzon. FACT

[Rover]

Rover, I am taking a wild guess that he is taking all this from a misreading of Monzon's record on boxrec and has never seen him fight. Reminds me of TML, who once said Sturm would easily beat Monzon. FACT

Do you think this twit is TML?
Sturm over Monzon? Christ.
This place has some real morons.
The funny thing about all this is that I'd slightly favor Hagler, but the arguments this halfwit made for him are laughable.

[BoxBuzz]

I'm old, I've been lucky enough to see them both fight, and take each man's measure as far as anyone can by being ringside.
They are both great.

It's my opinion that Monzon would have simply figured Hagler out. He had a more disciplined mind from what I have seen. He never got flustered once he made it to the big leagues. He would have beaten Tommy, he would have beaten Ray, and he would not have been flummoxed by Willie Monroe, or Roberto Duran. In fact a Monzon Duran fight would have been a terribly unflattering day for Roberto. But his day with Hagler only tends to add luster to his career.

Monzon was smart enough to know when it was time to step away at the top.
Hagler can't claim that.

All hypothetical aside, there is not a moment in time when they were both active that Hagler could have hoped to beat Monzon. Up to and including the day of Monzon's last trip to the ring.

Prime for prime is always fun to guess. And if it was all about the clinical skills, I'd give Hagler even odds, but in my mind it's also about those things that make each of them unique in terms of their humanity. (Or in this case perhaps more fairly stated, lack of humanity).

[Bill47]

Monzon-Hagler would have been a truly great fight. I remember both fighters and would have paid anything to have seen this match up.

Bill

[Ambling Alp]

I agree it probably would have been a great fight. I would have to pick Monzon. I agree with Buzz comments about Haglers opponents and it is hard to imagine Monzon struggling so much against them. He also managed to work in the word "flummoxed" which you don't see often enough.

To turn things around, how would Hagler do against Griffith, Benvenuti, and Valdez? I think Hagler would be the favorite against all three, but what are the the chances that he would able to go a combined 6-0 against the three?

[Ezzard]

I agree it probably would have been a great fight. I would have to pick Monzon. I agree with Buzz comments about Haglers opponents and it is hard to imagine Monzon struggling so much against them. He also managed to work in the word "flummoxed" which you don't see often enough.

To turn things around, how would Hagler do against Griffith, Benvenuti, and Valdez? I think Hagler would be the favorite against all three, but what are the the chances that he would able to go a combined 6-0 against the three?

Alp, can I draw you out on a Monzon-Leonard fight? The Carlos of his last fight versus the Ray who beat Marvin?

[jay75]

monzon would have busted up hagler late in the fight , they were both 15 round fighters,and monzon was massive at the weight, same sort of build of tommy hearns. unlike hearns who neglected his height and reach in the hagler fight , monzon was more disciplined and a thinking mans fighter , i feel he would hav stopped marvin in abou 11 ,14 rounds , probably on cuts,

[King Carlos]

Hagler was a great champion. Monzon was "the super champion".

[Ambling Alp]

I agree it probably would have been a great fight. I would have to pick Monzon. I agree with Buzz comments about Haglers opponents and it is hard to imagine Monzon struggling so much against them. He also managed to work in the word "flummoxed" which you don't see often enough.

To turn things around, how would Hagler do against Griffith, Benvenuti, and Valdez? I think Hagler would be the favorite against all three, but what are the the chances that he would able to go a combined 6-0 against the three?

Alp, can I draw you out on a Monzon-Leonard fight? The Carlos of his last fight versus the Ray who beat Marvin?

It would have a very close fight, could go either way. However, Monzon was about two years older in his last fight than Hagler was vs Leonard. I would pick the Monzon at Hagler's age to beat Leonard in that situation.

[Ezzard]

I agree it probably would have been a great fight. I would have to pick Monzon. I agree with Buzz comments about Haglers opponents and it is hard to imagine Monzon struggling so much against them. He also managed to work in the word "flummoxed" which you don't see often enough.

To turn things around, how would Hagler do against Griffith, Benvenuti, and Valdez? I think Hagler would be the favorite against all three, but what are the the chances that he would able to go a combined 6-0 against the three?

Alp, can I draw you out on a Monzon-Leonard fight? The Carlos of his last fight versus the Ray who beat Marvin?

It would have a very close fight, could go either way. However, Monzon was about two years older in his last fight than Hagler was vs Leonard. I would pick the Monzon at Hagler's age to beat Leonard in that situation.

I'd be more sure of a Monzon win over 15. If it were 12 Leonard could do it. Could... Either way it would be close.