Gavin Vs Witter - Prediction Poll

[Crazyboy]

Its a shame that Witter is so inconsistent. Flashes of brilliance followed by just dreadful no shows. He is now even becoming inconsistent in fights. I seriously thought he had injured himself and that why he was placing his right hand behind his back for over 3 minutes.... Why did he do that?

I can see why people start to disrespect his fantastic achievements when he shows the sport and his opponent that kind of disrespect. He showed in the last round that there was still something left in the tank, so why didn't he try to throw anything in the middle rounds.

Thats what i meant earlier in this thread and i still say it, witter beat himself last night.

At one stage Ingle was yelling in his ear 'you are throwing it away, you need to throw and stop messing about'.....so what did he do the very next round, put his hands behind his back and switch stances for three minutes....strange indeed.

It was no Gavin masterclass, far from it, it was a Witter horror show

[banjo]

What happened in the N'Dou fight? Didn't he break his hand or something? Maybe that had something to do with him being so tentative from then onward.

I'd completely bought into the notion that whoever he hit at light welter - Hatton, Gatti, Harris, Cotto, Tszyu, Corley, Pinto would get laid out and then he just seemed to lack the ability to finish a fight.

[twenty six]

I just don't know where to start.
Junior has always been an enigma at the best of times but last night surpassed everything for me.
Gavin looked like a rabbit in the headlights early on, and looked really umcomfortable with what can only be described as a scratch on the nose.
At that point I am truly saying that I expected Junior to win.
Then we go through the extraordinary tactics rounds 4 to 10 - even Dom I think would be at a loss to explain that away.
He's been sharp in the gym and had a decent camp.
Time to hang them up Junior I'm afraid.
As for Gavin I have seen nothing to convince me he has a major future in the pro game.
I am hoping to be proved majorly wrong.
If he can get down to Light Welter I might change my opinion.
However even domestically I think there are serious challenges ahead for him.
I think Witter lost that fight, rather than Gavin won it.
Any spark of commitment from Junior in the middle rounds and I think Gavin may have folded.
Just my take.

[stujones]

What happened in the N'Dou fight? Didn't he break his hand or something? Maybe that had something to do with him being so tentative from then onward.

I'd completely bought into the notion that whoever he hit at light welter - Hatton, Gatti, Harris, Cotto, Tszyu, Corley, Pinto would get laid out and then he just seemed to lack the ability to finish a fight.

Can't remember if he had a hand injury. I do think he had stamina issues though cause in the Kotelnik fight he started brightly and faded badly in the end.

He looked very tired towards the end of the Ndou fight.

[Lenny]

The way he drove N'Dou back to the ropes with nothing but feints before one of the knockdowns was excellent to watch and showed at his very rare best, Witter was pretty fornicating awesome. If N'Dou had stayed down from one of those early knockdowns who knows what would have happened next?
He just let himself down too many times when he seemed on the cusp of that big fight.

British and Euro champion with a fringe world title is a very good career. Will go down as one of the most successful Ingle boxers. Frustrating and boring but there was a reason why many, many people used to tip him to beat Hatton back in the day

[twenty six]

Lenny,
I'm struggling with you calling his WBC title fringe mate.

[JamesH]

Haha, if Frankie knocked out Wlad the unimpressed on here would cite Wlad's chin. Frankie did well, beat a balls of an awkward boxer who a lot of people on here thought would expose Frankie. He didn't, he couldn't. I respect Junior and his achievements, and his interview after the fight. He was just beaten by the better man on the night, when Frankie relaxed he was darting in and out and at times made Witter look silly. All the best to Junior, but well done Frankie for beating a former world champ who came in confident of winning. 14th fight, British champ, against an awkward former world champ who's been getting wins up until last night. Some posters on here do make me chuckle.

Also, I'm not sure Arnie wants to be talking about Frankie after Heffrons performance. I thought a lesson might have been learned in the Woodhouse presser, obviously not. Ridiculous statement to make after Heffron struggles through against a tough fighter who Gavin stood on his head. It sounded ridiculous, I'm sure he must know that, he's a smart guy. I'd fancy Witter to beat Heffron to be honest, that might actually highlight how effective Frankie was last night for most of the fight.

And the new

Do you think Frankie has peaked or do you think he can go on and on now James?

No, I don't think Frankie has peaked at all.

I think FW has been reluctant to take a gamble on him to date and last night was Frankie's chance to sink or swim - he swam. I'd love if he were down a weight and/or had a bigger dig, but he doesn't. What he does have is fabulous movement, and when that is threaded with confidence, he can look unbelievably good. When Frankie got on top last night and the confidence came through, it was one way traffic. Some will argue Witter lost the fight, but he was fine for the first three rounds, might it not be that the ring-savvy Gavin worked him out? When Frankie moved and slipped, Junior became poor. In the last round Junior showed he had plenty of energy, but like Gavin in the first three, he wasn't able to use it. Why? Because he wasn't allowed to. Why? Because Frankie had worked him out. If anyone is asking themselves what happened to Witter, watch the fight again and see that by the fourth/fifth, Frankie had his number.

Having overcome Junior, I suspect he will make 2 or 3 succesful defences before stepping up again and winning at Euro level. How he goes after that will in my opinion mainly depend on how busy he is kept between now and then. Honestly, do a search on here and you'll find some knowledgable posters insisting he wouldn't make British level. After round 3 last night, I still knew Frankie would come good in the fight. By round 6 I knew he had come good. By round 8, I knew people would be denigrating his performance due to Witters age and antics. By the end of round 12, I didn't give a toss. And the new...

[Counter-puncher]

The way he drove N'Dou back to the ropes with nothing but feints before one of the knockdowns was excellent to watch and showed at his very rare best, Witter was pretty effing awesome. If N'Dou had stayed down from one of those early knockdowns who knows what would have happened next?
He just let himself down too many times when he seemed on the cusp of that big fight.

British and Euro champion with a fringe world title is a very good career. Will go down as one of the most successful Ingle boxers. Frustrating and boring but there was a reason why many, many people used to tip him to beat Hatton back in the day

good post mate agreed on all points.

flooring the stout-chinned Ndou as heavily as he did says all anyone needs to know about his punch.

[Counter-puncher]

Lenny,
I'm struggling with you calling his WBC tile fringe mate.

fair point

however he only really fought fringe fighters for the WBC, so.....

[Crazyboy]

Haha, if Frankie knocked out Wlad the unimpressed on here would cite Wlad's chin. Frankie did well, beat a balls of an awkward boxer who a lot of people on here thought would expose Frankie. He didn't, he couldn't. I respect Junior and his achievements, and his interview after the fight. He was just beaten by the better man on the night, when Frankie relaxed he was darting in and out and at times made Witter look silly. All the best to Junior, but well done Frankie for beating a former world champ who came in confident of winning. 14th fight, British champ, against an awkward former world champ who's been getting wins up until last night. Some posters on here do make me chuckle.

Also, I'm not sure Arnie wants to be talking about Frankie after Heffrons performance. I thought a lesson might have been learned in the Woodhouse presser, obviously not. Ridiculous statement to make after Heffron struggles through against a tough fighter who Gavin stood on his head. It sounded ridiculous, I'm sure he must know that, he's a smart guy. I'd fancy Witter to beat Heffron to be honest, that might actually highlight how effective Frankie was last night for most of the fight.

And the new

Do you think Frankie has peaked or do you think he can go on and on now James?

No, I don't think Frankie has peaked at all.
I think FW has been reluctant to take a gamble on him to date and last night was Frankie's chance to sink or swim - he swam. I'd love if he were down a weight and/or had a bigger dig, but he doesn't. What he does have is fabulous movement, and when that is threaded with confidence, he can look unbelievably good. When Frankie got on top last night and the confidence came through, it was one way traffic. Some will argue Witter lost the fight, but he was fine for the first three rounds, might it not be that the ring-savvy Gavin worked him out? When Frankie moved and slipped, Junior became poor. In the last round Junior showed he had plenty of energy, but like Gavin in the first three, he wasn't able to use it. Why? Because he wasn't allowed to. Why? Because Frankie had worked him out. If anyone is asking themselves what happened to Witter, watch the fight again and see that by the fourth/fifth, Frankie had his number.

Having overcome Junior, I suspect he will make 2 or 3 succesful defences before stepping up again and winning at Euro level. How he goes after that will in my opinion mainly depend on how busy he is kept between now and then. Honestly, do a search on here and you'll find some knowledgable posters insisting he wouldn't make British level. After round 3 last night, I still knew Frankie would come good in the fight. By round 6 I knew he had come good. By round 8, I knew people would be denigrating his performance due to Witters age and antics. By the end of round 12, I didn't give a toss. And the new...

Just wondered as you seem unsure about him

Come on mate, the rounds Gavin won were down to Witter giving us a belated halloween horror show, not Gavins ring savvy. If you honestly believe that Gavin forced Witter to perform like that in the ring, i think you have those *'jessi tinted' glasses on again.

*sorry Jessi :)

[jessi]

No probs crazyboy, we always knew it was going to be ugly, but Gavin done what he had to after a slow start, gavins confidence grew massively from round 6 and although witter didn't do much from there on in, he was still awkward defensively, Gavin will look good against people who come to fight I promise, at the end of the day Gavin won quite easily against a former world champion on a winning streak in his 14th pro fight !
He won't fight anyone as awkward as that again and it still taught Frankie a few things.
I fancy Matthew Hatton next, and his hungry still so should make a much more watchable fight !

[Lenny]

Lenny,
I'm struggling with you calling his WBC tile fringe mate.

fair point

however he only really fought fringe fighters for the WBC, so.....

Forget the letters. He fought for a vacant title against a guy who had already lost to the best in the division. You could never at any stage consider him the Light Welterweight Champion

[JamesH]

No, I don't think Frankie has peaked at all.
I think FW has been reluctant to take a gamble on him to date and last night was Frankie's chance to sink or swim - he swam. I'd love if he were down a weight and/or had a bigger dig, but he doesn't. What he does have is fabulous movement, and when that is threaded with confidence, he can look unbelievably good. When Frankie got on top last night and the confidence came through, it was one way traffic. Some will argue Witter lost the fight, but he was fine for the first three rounds, might it not be that the ring-savvy Gavin worked him out? When Frankie moved and slipped, Junior became poor. In the last round Junior showed he had plenty of energy, but like Gavin in the first three, he wasn't able to use it. Why? Because he wasn't allowed to. Why? Because Frankie had worked him out. If anyone is asking themselves what happened to Witter, watch the fight again and see that by the fourth/fifth, Frankie had his number.

Having overcome Junior, I suspect he will make 2 or 3 succesful defences before stepping up again and winning at Euro level. How he goes after that will in my opinion mainly depend on how busy he is kept between now and then. Honestly, do a search on here and you'll find some knowledgable posters insisting he wouldn't make British level. After round 3 last night, I still knew Frankie would come good in the fight. By round 6 I knew he had come good. By round 8, I knew people would be denigrating his performance due to Witters age and antics. By the end of round 12, I didn't give a toss. And the new...

Just wondered as you seem unsure about him

Come on mate, the rounds Gavin won were down to Witter giving us a belated halloween horror show, not Gavins ring savvy. If you honestly believe that Gavin forced Witter to perform like that in the ring, i think you have those *'jessi tinted' glasses on again.

*sorry Jessi :)

So Junior won the first three handily, and then someone put a spell on him which stopped him in his tracks? I mean, he was clearly fit and had energy so did someone tie his hands together from round 4 to 11? Then untied them again in 12. Oh it couldn't possibly have been linked to anything his opponent was doing? That might involve giving Gavin some credit, we couldn't have that, could we?

And as for your unsure comment, read back over the last few days of posts. A lot of people were sure of how great Junior was looking, perhaps they can explain why he wasn't able to execute all the wonderful power punches we'd spent the last few weeks being promised. They were just as sure on Witter as I was of Frankie, its just that on this occasion I was right

And of course there was the other tool who kept insinuating Gavin wouldn't show up Dickhead

[twenty six]

Lenny,
As long as you apply that logic across all UK fighters .......
Second thoughts don't bother .... we'll end up with not many Champs !

[jimcook]

thought this fight may have heralded the coming of frankie gavin, but now im not so sure. yes its hard to look good against witter, but both alexander and bradley beat him convincingly when witter was younger and better. and both alexander and bradley were younger than gavin is now. cant see gavin ever being a threat to the top men in the division if he cant lay a glove on an old man fighting with his hands tied behind his back. also , because of the slow pace of the fight we never got to see if gavin really can do 12 hard rounds. however, he did win, and he probably learned a lot last night. would liketo see him fight carson jones now, or someone similar.

Bradley won a split, without the knockdown Witter would have kept the belt. Frankie won a landslide...

it was only a split cos witter was the home fighter. anyway , witter was better then. gavin hardly landed on witter, its not as if he did a calzaghe-lacy job is it?

[jessi]

JamesH well said, if I had said that I would of been told to remove my glasses !

[Lenny]

Lenny,
As long as you apply that logic across all UK fighters .......
Second thoughts don't bother .... we'll end up with not many Champs !

I do, don't you worry
You could almost put them in 4 groups

Guys who win a vacant title against utter crap (Cleverly)
Guys who win a vacant title against fringe top 10 (Witter)
Guys who beat a World Champion who isn't considered the number 1 in the division (Froch)
And guys who beat the number 1 (Hatton)

Easy!

[Crazyboy]

JamesH well said, if I had said that I would of been told to remove my glasses !

I've already told him to take off your glasses!!

He won, i'll give you that, the fashion that he won in just didn't impress me thats all, you two think differently, nothing wrong with that but if you were honestly that impressed last night with his performance, then we will never agree, he showed nothing of the superstar status you two give him.

That is my opnion, so we will resume after his next outing, where if he does something special i will gladly say so.

[danconnollyeire]

He won, i'll give you that, the fashion that he won in just didn't impress me thats all, you two think .

I think Witter could make even Mayweather and Pacman look not great with his spoiling

[dondada]

Lenny,
I'm struggling with you calling his WBC tile fringe mate.

fair point

however he only really fought fringe fighters for the WBC, so.....

Forget the letters. He fought for a vacant title against a guy who had already lost to the best in the division. You could never at any stage consider him the Light Welterweight Champion

Won the vacant title, yes, defended it twice and then lost on a split to Bradley. Might not have been THE champ but then, very few are these days.

[Old bones Ian]

I was a big Witter fan on his way up, but he had 1 impressive world title fight against Vivian Harris The other world title fights were not good, and his one against Arturo Morua was one of the worst world title fights i have seen in a long time.

I know some of you have seen him train, and i always hear how hard he goes in the gym. So do you think its a mental barrier when he steps in the ring for real now, as he seems to lose focus within 2 or 3 rounds.

[stujones]

One of the worst calls ever that Junior only lost on a split to Bradley.Bradley won clear, Witter was awful that night also.

[banjo]

A bit off topic but who was Judah supposed to have fought when he fought Witter?

[stujones]

A bit off topic but who was Judah supposed to have fought when he fought Witter?

Jason Rowland

[banjo]

A bit off topic but who was Judah supposed to have fought when he fought Witter?

Jason Rowland

Ah, cheers, my mind had gone completely blank.