Kostya Tszyu vs Arturo Gatti

[Rover]

"I don't like the ref! I'm gonna quit!"
Tszyu had no way of knowing what the cards were; he was down by a point on one and three on another. Sorry, but that statement is laughable.
Chavez didn't quit against Taylor in spite of the many uncalled low blows. That's just one example I can think of (a high profile jr. welter fight).
Hell, Ruiz and Stone bitched about the ref all night against RJJ. Ruiz still didn't quit.
If that's true about Tszyu (and I don't think it is), he had no heart, for it's false that unfair reffing would "break any fighter's spirit," as I've demonstrated.

[Rover]

I still can't get over the utter stupidity of the comment that bad reffing would break any fighter's spirit as a justification for Tszyu's having quit.
I must've missed Raheem's quit job against Juarez.
Oh, that's right: he didn't quit.

[Rover]

I remember a very recent fight (Mares/Agbeko I) in which the ref called two KD's that weren't and let Mares get away with who knows how many low blows.
Agbeko quit, right? I mean, bad reffing would break any fighter's spirit, right?

[Rover]

Since a bad ref would break any fighter's spirit, I wonder why Reid didn't quit against Ottke.

[Rover]

Hell, the worst reffing I've ever seen was Isidro Rodriguez's pathetic performance in Coggi/Gonzalez I.
Even after that embarrassment, Gonzalez didn't quit. Coggi was able to recover and stop him, but Gonzalez didn't quit.

[Jaywheel]

ok, I think we get your point rover.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

ok, I think we get your point rover.

[Rover]

Sorry, but that comment (that I was responding to) was just so idiotic...
Hey, the Braves should've quit after Sam Holbrook's infield fly call!
:)

[BoxBuzz]

Like Frazier in the Thrilla in Manilla it was not the fighter that threw in the towel.

Both simply did what their corner instructed them to do.....and what is required.

Kostya simply did not express his disagreement in public.

[Rover]

Like Frazier in the Thrilla in Manilla it was not the fighter that threw in the towel.

Both simply did what their corner instructed them to do.....and what is required.

Kostya simply did not express his disagreement in public.

Maybe that's because he agreed.

[BoxBuzz]

Like Frazier in the Thrilla in Manilla it was not the fighter that threw in the towel.

Both simply did what their corner instructed them to do.....and what is required.

Kostya simply did not express his disagreement in public.

Maybe that's because he agreed.

Maybe/Maybe not...but the point is that Kostya did not make the call.

[Rover]

And Tszyu was part of the corner. When I hear the corner stopped the fight, unless I hear otherwise, as far as I'm concerned the fighter agreed.
And I highly doubt the corner stopped it because they didn't like the ref, which was how this discussion commenced.

[Sweet P]

Actually the Knockdown in the Hatton fight did cost Tszyu the fight. Hatton could not have beaten the count. He was fucked.

[Rover]

Actually the Knockdown in the Hatton fight did cost Tszyu the fight. Hatton could not have beaten the count. He was fucked.

We'll never know that, and whether or not that was a KD was a very close call.

[BoxBuzz]

Kostya was an intellectual guy, even in the worst of moments....he simply showed class

Frazier was an emotional guy, he showed a different sort of class as we all believe he "wanted to fight on" while throwin his trainer under the bus.

In my opinion Both honorable options depending on how you are wired.

But the cornerman called the fights both times.....end of story....unless you claim to be an empath and know something we don't.

Such as: Kostya really did want the fight to end. so he was relieved....(though that does go against some of the "stories" of how he spoke to his trainer when the doors were closed but I wasn't there were you? But anyone with such "inside" information might be able to also shockingly reveal to us that Frazier was just "hammin for the camera's" and in his "heart of hearts" he was happy that Phucker Phutch had "called it".

My point is that we don't know and never will. And that is about the only "fact" we can rely on here. Anything less is just your (or my) imagination. So be my guest and "imagineer" away. I "imagine" they both would have finished their respective fights had they been asked to go out and do so. What we do know is that they treated their corner men differently.

[Sweet P]

Actually the Knockdown in the Hatton fight did cost Tszyu the fight. Hatton could not have beaten the count. He was fucked.

We'll never know that, and whether or not that was a KD was a very close call.

It was a close call. Hatton was holding his stomach though. Not holding his balls.

[Rover]

Kostya was an intellectual guy, even in the worst of moments....he simply showed class

Frazier was an emotional guy, he showed a different sort of class as we all believe he "wanted to fight on" while throwin his trainer under the bus.

In my opinion Both honorable options depending on how you are wired.

But the cornerman called the fights both times.....end of story....unless you claim to be an empath and know something we don't.

Such as: Kostya really did want the fight to end. so he was relieved....(though that does go against some of the "stories" of how he spoke to his trainer when the doors were closed but I wasn't there were you? But anyone with such "inside" information might be able to also shockingly reveal to us that Frazier was just "hammin for the camera's" and in his "heart of hearts" he was happy that Phucker Phutch had "called it".

My point is that we don't know and never will. And that is about the only "fact" we can rely on here. Anything less is just your (or my) imagination. So be my guest and "imagineer" away. I "imagine" they both would have finished their respective fights had they been asked to go out and do so. What we do know is that they treated their corner men differently.

What we know is that Tszyu didn't object. He could've but didn't. That's a fact.

[BoxBuzz]

Kostya was an intellectual guy, even in the worst of moments....he simply showed class

Frazier was an emotional guy, he showed a different sort of class as we all believe he "wanted to fight on" while throwin his trainer under the bus.

In my opinion Both honorable options depending on how you are wired.

But the cornerman called the fights both times.....end of story....unless you claim to be an empath and know something we don't.

Such as: Kostya really did want the fight to end. so he was relieved....(though that does go against some of the "stories" of how he spoke to his trainer when the doors were closed but I wasn't there were you? But anyone with such "inside" information might be able to also shockingly reveal to us that Frazier was just "hammin for the camera's" and in his "heart of hearts" he was happy that Phucker Phutch had "called it".

My point is that we don't know and never will. And that is about the only "fact" we can rely on here. Anything less is just your (or my) imagination. So be my guest and "imagineer" away. I "imagine" they both would have finished their respective fights had they been asked to go out and do so. What we do know is that they treated their corner men differently.

What we know is that Tszyu didn't object. He could've but didn't. That's a fact.

That's another fact, yes. But by making this the issue, it appears you "favor" certain facts. Sounds like that's the fact you fancy the most...lol.

I know that I don't know what I don't know. Sounds like you have the "edge"....and perhaps know more somehow. I can only hope you sorta/kinda know what I'm aimin' at here.