Did Barry McGuigan retire too early?

[Controversial]

I brought up the Taylor fight because (according to the commentary, anyway) McGuigan wasn't having issues fighting in temperatures Cruz was used to living in (well, when it got to be the hottest).
I think the way to deal with different conditions is to acclamate oneself--for example, altitude. Hopkins clearly did this v. Mercado in the first fight in Ecuador and was coming on late, as just one example. Mercado was clearly used to fighting in that altitude; he'd fought in Ecuador and was from there.
Cruz hadn't fought in anything like that. When there is such a disparity in temperature, I don't think having lived in a place with a high temperature 20 degrees below where you're fighting is all that helpful.

I have watched and listened to the entire Taylor fight on YouTube and the heat wasn't mentioned once by either commentator. I'm not saying it wasn't hot but any boxer in a fast paced fight in a small arena will get hot so its hardly unusual.

What was mentioned on the commentary (and in the press) was Taylor had to skip for 20 minutes before the weigh-in to drop 12 ounces, wrapped in plastic and a sweatsuit to make weight. That combined with McGuigan battering him in the last round is more likely the reason for Taylor quitting, the heat was an excuse.

Fighting under a baking sun in Vegas and fighting in Belfast at night are incomparable. If there is no difference then what was the point in McGuigan even bothering to fly out there 3 weeks before the fight to acclimatise? You have already said McGuigan should have acclimatised himself, surely you must think he didn't need to bother if the Taylor fight was proof he could fight in the heat.

[Rover]

I brought up the Taylor fight because (according to the commentary, anyway) McGuigan wasn't having issues fighting in temperatures Cruz was used to living in (well, when it got to be the hottest).
I think the way to deal with different conditions is to acclamate oneself--for example, altitude. Hopkins clearly did this v. Mercado in the first fight in Ecuador and was coming on late, as just one example. Mercado was clearly used to fighting in that altitude; he'd fought in Ecuador and was from there.
Cruz hadn't fought in anything like that. When there is such a disparity in temperature, I don't think having lived in a place with a high temperature 20 degrees below where you're fighting is all that helpful.

I have watched and listened to the entire Taylor fight on YouTube and the heat wasn't mentioned once by either commentator. I'm not saying it wasn't hot but any boxer in a fast paced fight in a small arena will get hot so its hardly unusual.

What was mentioned on the commentary (and in the press) was Taylor had to skip for 20 minutes before the weigh-in to drop 12 ounces, wrapped in plastic and a sweatsuit to make weight. That combined with McGuigan battering him in the last round is more likely the reason for Taylor quitting, the heat was an excuse.

Fighting under a baking sun in Vegas and fighting in Belfast at night are incomparable. If there is no difference then what was the point in McGuigan even bothering to fly out there 3 weeks before the fight to acclimatise? You have already said McGuigan should have acclimatised himself, surely you must think he didn't need to bother if the Taylor fight was proof he could fight in the heat.

No, I said it showed he could fight in about 100 degrees. Far different from 125.

[Controversial]

No, I said it showed he could fight in about 100 degrees. Far different from 125.

So McGuigan didn't need to bother to acclimatise to the Vegas heat?

[Rover]

He should've just like Cruz did. I don't give a fighter a pass for not having prepared properly, though I don't think acclamating would've been as helpful given that the normal Vegas heat wasn't approx. 125 degrees.
It's different from fighting at altitude; in the ring, it's the same altitude as outside of it.

[Controversial]

He should've just like Cruz did. I don't give a fighter a pass for not having prepared properly, though I don't think acclamating would've been as helpful given that the normal Vegas heat wasn't approx. 125 degrees.
It's different from fighting at altitude; in the ring, it's the same altitude as outside of it.

I agree McGuigan was underprepared for the heat, Cruz wasn't. Thats what I have said all along, your the one arguing otherwise.

If you think the Taylor fight was proof McGuigan could fight at 100 degrees then why do you think he needed to bother acclimatising in the first place? For arguments sake say they knew it was going to be 100 degrees in Vegas do you think it would have been wise for McGuigan to not bother acclimatising just because he had (allegedly) fought in that temperature before?

[Rover]

I'm not arguing Cruz prepared better for the heat (or at least tried to). I'm arguing that even what he did didn't prepare him for 125 degrees.
I'm disputing the argument that just because he lived in Ft. Worth meant he was prepared better to fight at 125 degrees, something I've seen nothing to suggest he'd ever done.
I'm arguing that the 125 degrees was something neither really could've prepared for; waaaaaay different even from 100.

[Controversial]

I'm not arguing Cruz prepared better for the heat (or at least tried to). I'm arguing that even what he did didn't prepare him for 125 degrees.
I'm disputing the argument that just because he lived in Ft. Worth meant he was prepared better to fight at 125 degrees, something I've seen nothing to suggest he'd ever done.
I'm arguing that the 125 degrees was something neither really could've prepared for; waaaaaay different even from 100.

Your not answering the question. You keep banging on about the Taylor fight as proof McGuigan could fight in 100 degree temperatures (although it wasn't in the sun). That being your stance what was the point in McGuigan bothering to acclimatise to the heat, bearing in mind they didn't know what the temperatures were going to be, for all they knew it might have been 100 degrees as well.

[Rover]

Sure they could've known. It's called a forecast. Add the degrees of the ring lights.
But, as I've said, though McGuigan could've acclamated himself to Vegas as Cruz did, I don't think that getting used to 100 (which he showed he could fight in) would've been that helpful in terms of fighting in 125.

[Controversial]

Add the degrees of the ring lights.

Hahaha, heard it all now !!

[misterpunch]

if anyone believes that belfast can be 100f at night at the end of september, then they'd better book their next years holiday in the place right now.

in my view they've been out in the sun too long.

and this topic is a waste of time arguing such rubbish

[Crease]

if anyone believes that belfast can be 100f at night at the end of september, then they'd better book their next years holiday in the place right now.

I can tell you all ceteogrically that Belfast is very cold. I was born and grew up and still live in the city.

[Seamus]

I wouldn't say Belfast get's very cold, it just doesn't get very warm.

[misterpunch]

are you reading this, rover? its b-b-b-bloody c-c-c-cold in b-b-b-belfast

[Rover]

are you reading this, rover? its b-b-b-bloody c-c-c-cold in b-b-b-belfast

And growing up in a cooler climate is no excuse for losing in a warmer one when the heat wasn't anything like either of them had dealt with before, and none of these posts have refuted any of my points.

[misterpunch]

but you're convinced that belfast zooms up to sahara desert temperatures in late september!!

i fear your cranky theories will not be "refuted" (perhaps you mean "disproved") by the simple expedient that boredom insists i get the f..k out of this thread ...never to return!!

[Rover]

but you're convinced that belfast zooms up to sahara desert temperatures in late september!!

i fear your cranky theories will not be "refuted" (perhaps you mean "disproved") by the simple expedient that boredom insists i get the f..k out of this thread ...never to return!!

Never said that. Adios.

[Bricks]

I have to say I have lent strongely towards the arguments that Mcguigan was significantly penalised in the heat etc

But having just watched the fight again on youtube this morning in the office, its clear mcguigan fought at an incredible pace and was forcing the fight even despite the knockdowns in the 15th till the final bell.

There has to than surely be an argument rather than heat which he was fighting in at a frenetic pace his inability to box off the back foot and lack of a plan B has to play some part allied with 80% of the blame being the lack of ice and cold fluids in the corner. Its the incompetence of the corner which should be held up they should have been cooling Mcguigans burning back and ensuring he got in some fluids. Of course in those lack of modern nutrition days they didnt beleive in swallowing water in a fight.

As it was if mcguigan hadnt gone down twice in the 15th i would have had him winning

[Tomasino]

He lost because of "extreme heat."

It was equally hot for Cruz.

McGuigan is a pasty faced Irish man who had fought all but one fight in Northern Ireland or the UK, places where heat is a rare luxury. Cruz fought most of his fights in Nevada, Las Vegas and Texas, places that get very hot, especially in June when they fought. Cruz was far better suited to extreme heat than McGuigan. McGuigan fought at a fast pace and was drained by the 15th round, which is why he was rushed to hospital after the fight. I have no doubt that had McGuigan fought in the UK he would have stopped Cruz, and he would have won in the USA had he fought smarter.

Shows how inferior McGuigan really is:
He needed to fight in his homeland to beat a Steve Cruz--or he needed to fight "smarter" away from his homeland.
BTW, it was "hot as hell" (according to Chris Shenkel) when McGuigan beat Taylor, who couldn't continue due to the heat. McGuigan showed no difficulties that day.

How is Barry "inferior"? I find that a bizarre statement.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The warmest day in Belfast that year was 75. While arenas are often hotter than that, no way it's 100 degrees in there.

[Rover]

Pretty simple: Cruz wasn't that good.

[misterpunch]

at 9.04 on the 9th november - 5 days ago - you stated clearly that the mcgiugan/taylor fight took place in 100 degree heat - now youre denying it...go back and have a little read

[misterpunch]

its half way down page 5 of this thread

[Rover]

at 9.04 on the 9th november - 5 days ago - you stated clearly that the mcgiugan/taylor fight took place in 100 degree heat - now youre denying it...go back and have a little read

Where I live, it's in the thirties OUTSIDE.
I can assure you that it is not in the thirties INSIDE my home.

[misterpunch]

i think youve been caught out by your own post, but being a fair kind of bloke, what say we call a halt to this argument - it really is getting a bit tedious going backwards and forwards over the same old points

[misterpunch]

(i'll just add that it was you who first mentioned the additional heat from ring lighting systems)