CARMEN BASILIO

patron · Post by **patron** » 14 Nov 2012, 20:14

one of the GREATS of boxing passed away last week, i didn,t notice any mention of his passing in the local papers,i suppose that my show my age,as most of the so called sports reporters are on the lighter side of fifty, he fought some great fight, and fighters in the fifties, one being my idol, Sugar Ray Robinson, even though i was dirty on him beating Sugar in the first fight i admired the man,there is a good story on him in the RING magazine website, also Brute there is a great story on the passing of the old guard, something that you and i can relate to, i,m not saying your my vintage ,another very good fighter died recently Gil Clancy, will we ever have an era like that again?all the best . R.I.P Carmen Basilio

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 15 Nov 2012, 02:39

Basilio slugged it out with Sugar Ray Robinson and many other great welterweights and middleweights. He was one of the all time greats.

If Ray Mitchell was still alive he would have given him a great obituary. The current crop of local boxing journos are too young to have heard of Carmen. He fought for his country in World War II as well. Not a big man, but all heart.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 15 Nov 2012, 10:27

I have a couple of autographed photos of Carmen, including one with Gene Fullmer, signed by Gene as well. I doubt many on here would've even heard of the Upstate Onion Farmer. RIP Great Champion.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 15 Nov 2012, 16:37

Fullmer was a great champion as well. Won three out of four fights with Robinson, beat Basilio twice as well as Giardello. Dick tiger was too good for him, but Gene was getting on.

Fullmer was the last man Benny Paret fought before his fatal final meeting with Emile Griffith. Benny took a terrible beating, Gene was too big and strong for him.

patron · Post by **patron** » 15 Nov 2012, 18:50

two great fighters, but robinson had a long campain when he met them, 16 years and aged 36, i,m not detracting from either of them ,how would you like to have the three of them in your gym, all the best

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 15 Nov 2012, 20:20

patron wrote:two great fighters, but robinson had a long campain when he met them, 16 years and aged 36, i,m not detracting from either of them ,how would you like to have the three of them in your gym, all the best

No argument, Robinson's only real rival to the greatest middleweight ever was Carlos Monzon.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 16 Nov 2012, 00:14

Brute wrote:
patron wrote:two great fighters, but robinson had a long campain when he met them, 16 years and aged 36, i,m not detracting from either of them ,how would you like to have the three of them in your gym, all the best
No argument, Robinson's only real rival to the greatest middleweight ever was Carlos Monzon.

Wow, that's a big call. I think Harry Greb and Marvin Hagler might have something to say about that. Either way, I like your posts. More old school the better.

Beltane · Post by **Beltane** » 16 Nov 2012, 00:46

Perusing Harry Greb's fight history in BoxRec makes for fascinating reading and he was one very, very tough hombre, who fought out well above his weight. Harry was the only fighter to put a loss on Gene Tunney's record in their many wars, so that fact alone puts him in the highest eschelon.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 16 Nov 2012, 01:20

Tunney, Bob Fitzsimmons and Jim Jeffries are drastically underrated or unknown by today's boxing fans. Greb as well.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 17 Nov 2012, 01:36

Article on Carmen's funeral... http://blog.syracuse.com/sports/2012/11 ... cart_river

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 17 Nov 2012, 01:39

Monzon lost three fights his first two years as a pro and avenged all of them. He beat Benvenutti, Griffith, Valdez, Briscoe, Patron's old mate Tony Mundine all quality fighters. He avoided nobody.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 17 Nov 2012, 03:20

He was also reportedly the recipient of more than a few gift draws, against boxers he should've dispatched. I don't doubt he's a great fighter, that's not my point of contention. To say it's only him and Ray Robinson at the top of the Middleweight tree is a bit of a stretch IMO.

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 17 Nov 2012, 07:02

Reported by whom? Some clown silly enough to bet against him?

Have a look at his record and see who came close to beating him in title fights. Have a look at his KO percentage.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 17 Nov 2012, 07:26

I've got a few old Ring mags that mention it. Even if they weren't gifts, he should've been getting rid of them. I'm more than happy to debate Hagler or Greb are every but as deserving as Monzon or Robinson. Why don't you think they are?

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 17 Nov 2012, 18:08

Nat Fleischer would not have clapped eyes on Monzon until he stunned the boxing world by KOing Nino Benvenutti in his native Italy in 1970 to win the undisputed World Middleweight title, two years before Fleischer's death. The Ring became increasing irrelevant (with allegations of corruption) during the reign of Fleischer's son in law Nat Loubert. Greb is hard to get a handle on from his time when suspicious "Newspaper decisions" and "no contests" were common.

Hagler? A good boxer, but not at a particularly strong time, with the spread of A-Z outfits.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 18 Nov 2012, 00:35

Brute wrote:Nat Fleischer would not have clapped eyes on Monzon until he stunned the boxing world by KOing Nino Benvenutti in his native Italy in 1970 to win the undisputed World Middleweight title, two years before Fleischer's death. The Ring became increasing irrelevant (with allegations of corruption) during the reign of Fleischer's son in law Nat Loubert. Greb is hard to get a handle on from his time when suspicious "Newspaper decisions" and "no contests" were common.

Hagler? A good boxer, but not at a particularly strong time, with the spread of A-Z outfits.

The Ring may have had allegations of corruption, but it was far from irrelevant, not matter which way you slice it. I don't believe Greb is hard to get a handle on at all. His body of work speaks for itself. As for Hagler being a "good boxer," surely you mean a "great" one?!

Brute · Post by **Brute** » 18 Nov 2012, 00:49

not as great as Robinson of Monzon. Robinson was the real sugar Ray and Leonard would have never beaten Monzon.

Ipswich Express · Post by **Ipswich Express** » 18 Nov 2012, 00:57

That's your point of view and you're welcome to it. Robinson was in fact 8 wins, 6 losses and 1 draw in Middleweight world title fights. He showed great ability to overcome setbacks. I'd have him behind Hagler, Greb and Monzon at Middleweight. His best work was at Welterweight.

patron · Post by **patron** » 20 Nov 2012, 01:35

Robinson had around 70 wins as a light middle, middleweight and when you look at the class of fighter he fought and a lot of the top fighters in he,s latter years it is hard to go past him, monzon had griffiths briscoe , griffiths at the end of his carreer and a few other fighters that you could not put in the same class as Sugars opponents, but i hate comparing fighters up in that level ,like our present day fighters ,they all deserve the pat on the head. one middleweight who never reached the heights he was destined to reach, our own Dave Sands,sadly his life was cut short, all the best

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