Fight Missing From The Career of Luther McCarty

[HomicideHenry]

Backed up with articles:

KO2nd round loss to Harry Hollinger, August 1911

http://www.shelbycountyhistory.org/schs ... ortp2a.htm

There is much speculation whether this was a pro match or even an amateur bout, as his debut was against Watt Adams which happened seven months earlier. Even if it was an amateur fight, the fact that a pro went back and forth, makes this a professional fight. Later on in the article it alludes to the fact that after McCarty won the title, that Hollinger was presented as a challenger to McCarty as he was at the time presumably to be the only man to kayo McCarty.

http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/ ... arty+Harry

[klompton]

Are there any reports from the day after the fight? Im not doubting it happened I just know a first hand account is going to be needed to update this. Its an interesting find nontheless.

[HomicideHenry]

Sadly, I do not know, because even though I live in the land of McCarty (I live in Shelby county) the only newspaper accounts that I know of are listed on those sites. The only way I could ever know, is if I went to the Historical Society and enquire about the long forgotten and defunct "Sidney Athletic Commission" who put on boxing shows up until the 1960s. All I know is the famous fight took place right on the Court House Square (where today they hold the farmer's market in the fall and summer), and that McCarty was stopped in the second round by a left hook from Hollinger, and not long afterwards McCarty left Sidney and headed out West and resumed the alias of Walter Monahan and acted as a sparring partner for some contenders, until he himself rose to the top of the world. Luther was a vague memory in Sidney after he left until it was made aware that the kid who lost to Hollinger was now the "White Heavyweight Champion of The World" (even though he was half Indian), and his father Anton McCarty made big money off the fame because he was a travelling snake oil salesman and carney in the area. And of course, when McCarty died he was burried in nearby Piqua just ten miles from Sidney. I have looked up into Hollinger and apparently he was quite the hoss, never having lost a fight.

Harry Hollinger, would defeat many of Sidneys toughest men in 1909. Most notable are his matches with Ben Bates at the DeWeese House on South Ohio. Web Sterline was referee and declared the match a draw though the newspaper decision cited Hollinger as the winner. Two weeks later he would kayo Luther McCarty on the court square in the 2nd round. The Young Men's Athletic Association sponsored the match. When McCarty made it big, there was talk of him rematching McCarty and rumor had it the match would take place in Sidney, a world title fight. Unfortunately it never came to be. HOWEVER I will get onto looking into the details, cus this fight needs attention.

Note: I did send an email to the historical society and I hope they provide me with the first hand copy of the actual fight report.

[klompton]

Im not familiar with the newspapers of that part of the country but I live in a rural area as well and was surprised to find the wealth of newspapers on microfilm that exist from that era locally. I ended up having to go to local libraries, the local university, historical societies, etc. But quite a few of the local papers still survive. You might be surprised and it would not only be worth looking in to but a fun little detective project as well. Theres no telling what you might find.

[HomicideHenry]

Hopefully they get back to me within 24 hours, they are generally really fast in their responses. And I agree, most interesting sources come from rural areas. Microfilm is a pain in the ass, but at the end of the day Jesus bless us all for it being there, else a treasure trove of information would be lost forever.

[Brutu]

Wasnt Walter Monahan a sparring partner to both Jack Johnson and Jess Willard?
I think Jack Johnson was training him in 1911 for the"White Hope Sweepstakes" himself.
also I think a Walter Monahan was Willards sparring partner when Willard
was going to fight Johnson in Cuba.However that was after Luther McCarty died of course.
and Wasnt Harry Hollinger from Nebraska where McCarty would later go to from Ohio?
(there is a Sydney Nebraska too maybe im just confusing the two states)

I know there was some confusion about Kid Cutler in some sources.
(it appears that two fighters used that,but they were brothers,the younger one used it when the older one retired
from boxing and went into wrestling.)

Also I think i tried to look up Luther McCarty on ancestry.com
a few years ago,and was wondering if his father"White Eagle"
may have actually been born in Italy?(im probably confusing
another one though)
My Grandmother was from Sidney Ohio.

[HomicideHenry]

Wasnt Walter Monahan a sparring partner to both Jack Johnson and Jess Willard?
I think Jack Johnson was training him in 1911 for the"White Hope Sweepstakes" himself.
also I think a Walter Monahan was Willards sparring partner when Willard
was going to fight Johnson in Cuba.However that was after Luther McCarty died of course.
and Wasnt Harry Hollinger from Nebraska where McCarty would later go to from Ohio?
(there is a Sydney Nebraska too maybe im just confusing the two states)

I know there was some confusion about Kid Cutler in some sources.
(it appears that two fighters used that,but they were brothers,the younger one used it when the older one retired
from boxing and went into wrestling.)

Also I think i tried to look up Luther McCarty on ancestry.com
a few years ago,and was wondering if his father"White Eagle"
may have actually been born in Italy?(im probably confusing
another one though)
My Grandmother was from Sidney Ohio.

Indeed Monahan was Jack Johnson's sparring partner; McCarty used his name for a time to get fights. Same premise I imagine as Tommy Harrison using the alias of Bob Satterfield on the boondock circuit in the Pacific Northwest. I know that McCarty was born in Nebraska, however his father and mother had ties to Shelby county (Sidney, Ohio) and the bulk of his life was spent in the area, though some historians have confused his carney-like lifestyle with having been a native of Nebraska instead. I know of both Kid Cutler's because I am a fan of both sports (wrestling didn't become rasslin' until the age of Strangler Lewis). Native American ancestry is extremely hard to find and be accurate on, what I do know of McCarty is that according to local history he was Native American and Irish (on his mother's side). And, its a small world Brutu, I've lived in Shelby county 99% of my life.

[Brutu]

I dont know if anyone in Nebraska has ever searched the local newspapers on micro-film.
Etremley tedious from what I remember,and one sort of gets sloppy
after a while getting tired.
But maybe the Sydney or Ogalalla Nebraska newspaper may have some previous
unkown articles about him.Too small newspapers to be digitized I guess.
Or maybe contact NEBRASKA HISTORY magazine and try to
interest someone to research an article about him.

[HomicideHenry]

The Sidney Historical Society, far as I know, are in search of any old fight program, newspaper account, etc. of the Hollinger/McCarty fight. It ought to be there, considering Hollinger's career, as was any other boxer in Shelby county at the time, was chronicled in the papers. They will get back to me the moment it is found, but I will be honest, if I do not hear from them within the week is out, I will head on down to the library and research it myself.

[klompton]

Keep us posted, this is the kind of thing that gets my blood pumping. Should fun and interesting.

[HomicideHenry]

Will do, cus I want to do justice to Hollinger and McCarty. I know of a few other fights Harry Hollinger had in and around Sidney, and would like to have those also be in the BoxRec files. Its amazing he wasn't ever brought into the database.

[HomicideHenry]

Rich Wallace, lawyer and Shelby County Historian, has emailed me saying he does indeed have a copy from the August 1911 fight between McCarty and Hollinger and will scan it and send it to me via email. Wallace says that it is in fair condition, it was slightly burned in a fire over the years, so for all we know this may be THE only copy in the world of this little known fight that happened over 100 years ago with one of boxing's biggest stars from that era. Will upload it to the page when Mr. Wallace sends it to me. Just keeping you all updated!



Note: I hope that Mr. Rich Wallace & The Shelby County Historical Society, along with myself, will be given credit for "discovering" this fight and find

[klompton]

Very good work indeed. Kudos. Cant wait to see it.

[Brutu]

I just remebered where I read that Harry Hollinger was from Nebraska,and I think that source is in error.
In the book THE GREAT WHITE HOPES:tHE QUEST TO DEFEAT JACK JOHNSON
by Graeme Kent(2005).
There is an entire chapter on Luther McCarty.
"The Cowboy from Driftwood Creek" pp 148-160.
In the book he mentions that McCarty was knocked out by a local tannery worker ,Harry Hollinger.
McCarty walked into a wild right hand.
when he recovered,the local newspaper THE NEWS,quoted McCarty.
"You made a dub of me,Harry,but I'M going to stcik to this game and show up some of you fellows before I'am through".

However the entire chapter makes no mention of the state of Ohio,only Nebraska.
Also it doesnt footnote the exact source for the newspaper quote.
But it does mention that in 1911 McCarty fought under the name"Walker Monahan"(not Walter Monahan).
It also mentions that McCarty had a sister named Hazil(the puching bag queen),who along with their father White Eagle went on a vaudville tour.
Later in 1913 Hollinger offered McCarty a rematch with the chance to reverse his lost,but McCarty declined.
The fact that the state of Ohio is never mentioned in the article is curious.
But since Sidney Ohio and Sidney(Cheyenne County) Nebraska have the same spellings could explain the confusion,
BTW the author is British and the book was published in Britain,so maybe that was the reason for the oversight.

[Brutu]

BTW Not to add to even more confusion as to where and when Luther McCarty's boxing career began.
I noticed here on boxrec,that it lists his first pro fight against Watt Adams, January.7.1911 at "Culbertson Montana".
Is there a newspaper article from a day after that fight to confirm this,oris the source a newspaper article from several years after the fight?
The reason I ask is because there is also a small town called Culbertson in Hitchcock County Nebraska too.
and the South fork of Driftwood Creek flows near it into the Republican River,
Driftwood Creek flows through Hitchcock County near Culbertson and the North fork through Red Willow County near the town of McCook Nebraska, which is on the border of Kansas.
(btw the newspaper articles mention that his father owned a ranch 30 miles outside of Lincoln Ne
which is almost on the other side of the state from Sidney NE).
The ranch that McCarty worked out may have been near Culbertson.
which back in the old West days was were they drove the cattle up from Texas.
Also
the book by Graeme Kent mentions that McCarty made his(? amateur) boxing debut at Swift Creek(presumably Nebraska).
I do not know of any such town,perhaps they actually meant
the town of Red Cloud in Webster County Nebraska?
If the source for that was from memory years later,that could explain why the names of the towns were in error?

[Brutu]

In reading some of the old newspaper articles on google.
Its hard to seperate fact from fiction as far as the background of Luther McCarty.
How much of it(like a lot of the silient film stars and stars of the 1930's Hollywood)
was made up by his publicist and manager Bill McCarney?
I read where(according to his friends) McCarty was a ditch digger in Sidney Ohio
and also that his real name was "Luke Big Bear" according to publicity.
As far as which of his early fights were amateur or professional.
I guess they may be classified as Gymnasium fights.
Where in the country would he have gone in the USA back in 1911 to enroll in any amateur tournament?

[klompton]

There were tons of amateur tournaments in the US back in those days. I cant speak for the part of the country McCarty was from being that it may have been more rural but even those areas typically had regular amateur bouts.

[HomicideHenry]

See if the fight was known about to be mentioned in a book, its a shame Hollinger isn't given his due. I do think there is that confusion between Kansas and Ohio, because why would it be that McCarty is burried just ten miles of SIDNEY OHIO and not SYDNEY KANSAS? Know what I mean? As for these gymnasium fights, you gotta understand too at this time was the well known law on boxing then where boxing was only allowed in private clubs, and decisions were often rare. So there is that confusion about amateur and pro fights, because in reality it all was blurred. I do know that McCarty was paid for his fight with Hollinger (the mighty sum of 25 cents, lol) and that a rematch was discussed in 1913 because Hollinger said he was keenly interested because he remembered the "soft pickings" he had with McCarty then and figured he would beat him again.

[klompton]

But decisions were allowed in amateur fights because they werent "prizefights." Only prize fights were illegal.

[Brutu]

In the chapter of the book by Graeme Kent,it says that in 1910 he started his professional boxing
career at Swift Cloud(?Nebraska) and recieved 18 dollars for it.
(which would seemingly indicate that it was a prize fight)
However the author doesnt cite his source for that.
The author does refer in the chapter to an undated interview with Billy McCarney in a issue of Ring magazine though
(from the early 1930's im guessing)maybe that was the source for a lot of info
thats been passed down on Luther McCarty over the decades.
BTW Maybe "Swift Cloud" instead was the name of his first opponent ?
Maybe he fought him at the YMCA in Sidney Ohio?
BTW even though the bibliography in that book is lacking as far a specific references.
It does mention a book which I have seen myself but I have seen cited in a number of books about Jack Johnson and the Era.
"White Hopes and other Tigers"
by John Lardner(New York ,1951)
I have heard that its pretty good book.You can still buy a used copy at amazon.com for 25 dollars.
I dont think its an E-Book anywhere.

[HomicideHenry]

Basically (IMOP)most of that Cowboy from Driftwood Creek stuff was pretty much nonsence invented by Billy McCarney
to promote his fighter to the public.
althought no doubt of course that Luther McCarty once worked as a cow puncher for a spell in his teens
at Wildhorse Canyon/Driftwood Creek,Hitchcock County Nebraska.
Which really does exist and is loacted in southwestern Hitchcock County Nebraska not too far from Rawlins Kansas.
However im beginning to think that McCarty had no connection at all to the town of Sidney Nebraska,
(which is only about 98 miles East of Cheyenne Wyoming,why didnt he ever fight there?)
It may have just been confused with Sidney Ohio ever since.
Possibly he may never have had a fight at all in the state of Nebraska.
However in the chapter of the book by Graeme Kent,it says that in 1910 he started his professional boxing
career at Swift Cloud(?Nebraska) and recieved 18 dollars for it.
However the author doesnt cite his source for that.
The authordoes refer in the chapter to an undated interview with Billy McCarney in a issue of Ring magazine though
(from the early 1930's im guessing)maybe that was the source for a lot of info
thats been passed down on Luther McCarty over the decades.
BTW Maybe "Swift Cloud" instead was the name of his first opponent ?
Maybe he fought him at the YMCA in Sidney Ohio?
BTW even though the bibliography in that book is lacking as far a specific references.
It does mention a book which I have seen myself but I have seen cited in a number of books about Jack Johnson and the Era.
"White Hopes and other Tigers"
by John Lardner(New York ,1951)
I have heard that its pretty good book.You can still buy a used copy at amazon.com for 25 dollars.
I dont think its an E-Book anywhere.

McCarney was quite the snake oil salesman, and more the vaudeville manager than boxing scout. He had a flare for the outrageous and the flamboyant. It is true, however, that McCarty was a great horseman being able to ride two horses at the same time. It is said that before he fought Arthur Pelkey in the Tommy Burns Arena he fractured his neck doing a rodeo stunt, and his death in the ring was a direct result of this injury. I believe his rodeo riding ability and connection to Kansas really starts with his father White Eagle who lived the life of a carney/gypsy. His sister Hazel Kirkman was apart of the family travelling road show, being the "Womans Bag Puncher" while father sold medicines made mostly out of liquor and mother sold goods. From what I understand the connection to Kansas really has to do with the fact McCarty married a Kansas woman and had a child, and when he got famous he seldom was there, and when he died his widow travelled to Sidney, Ohio to collect the great fortune he made ($100,000 plus) and she returned back to Kansas. I think him being a great rider, made sense for vaudeville to say he was not only white, but was from Kansas, than say Ohio where nobody thinks of cowboys and Indians, but of textile plants and orchards. I do believe McCarty's bouts began in Sidney, Ohio and because he travelled statewide since birth, he probably picked up a bout or two along the way until he got famous. The question is, whether the majority of his fights that are listed on BoxRec are indeed pro fights or amateur fights, because of the confusion of this man's whole entire life story is the least of the problems, as the Hollinger fight is probably one of several fights that are forgotten.

[Brutu]

ive read conflicting accounts of the injuring that McCarty may have had going into the Pelkey fight.
Which was reported as either a cerebal hemmorage or his neck bones had been cracked.
That he was thrown from a horse a couple days earlier.Or maybe that one of Frank Moran's "Mary Ann
punches may have done some damage in an earlier fight.
McCarty's sparring partner around that time was John"Bull"Young.
aka "the Wyoming Plainsman "also managed by Billy McCarney.
Bull Young was the son of a rancher in Wyoming.
He was killed in the ring by a punch from Jess Willard a few months earlier.

[Brutu]

I was able to find out some additional details of Luther McCarty's background.
I will post them over in the Boxer's of the past thread.
His father was (or supposed to be) of Cherokee Indian extraction.
and graduated from the Indian school in Pennyslvania(most likley the one in Carlisle PN).
In 1886 he homsteaded south of Trenton(Hitchcock County) Nebraska.
In early 1910 Luther McCarty was said to be in Canada,so maybe Swift Cloud is in Canada?
(BTW the article from the Greene County Missouri historical society,
states that the first fight was in "Swift Current" and he recieved 15 dollars.

[Brutu]

I think I may have solved or at least cleared up where it may have been where Luther McCarty had his first prize fight in 1910.
thanks to that lead in the Greene County Missouri History Site.
The first fight must have been in the town of Swift Current in Saskatchewan Canada.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Current

[HomicideHenry]

I dont know if the real life and times of McCarty will ever truly be figured out; like I said, his life was that of the travelling persuasion because his father had that flare for the road and making a quick dollar. So its possible he was in all those places; all I know is the myths have taken away the truth of the man, and i think alot of it had to do with image. A cowboy is more marketable than an Indian, playing up his connections to Kansas rather than Ohio, saying he was white rather than part Cherokee, etc.