The Dark Destroyer wrote:Ali's tactics against Foreman were so masterful that his chin barely got tested. Few HWs could take what Foreman threw and stay up, Ali avoided taking it at all.
Foreman was throwing some good right hooks to the body, he just failed to follow them up with the killer right uppercut.
it frustrates me how underated tyson is on boxrec ,
Im not saying he could have beaten Ali ,
as for one we will never ever know and styles also play a part
but the way people go on here you would think he was domestic level.
we never saw a prime tyson really , his best was before he fought douglas but is that the best he would have ever been had he not got into the troubles he did ?
we dont really know what a prime tyson was capable of as he was in jail in what would probably have been his prime , or maybe would have been not long after that .... if he had been boxing regularly .
Lennon Lewis gets a lot of love on here yet Tyson would have blown Lewis away in my view, Lewis chose to fight him when he was a shadow of his former self .
Tyson was a better boxer than he gets credited for , not just a heavy punching brawler .
I think he would be less effective today though , he just wouldnt have been big enough , i know he beat some big guys but i think in todays environment he would have had to evolve a slightly different style that would then have not been the tyson we know .
Looking On wrote:
Tyson was a better boxer than he gets credited for , not just a heavy punching brawler .
i know he beat some big guys but i think in todays environment he would have had to evolve a slightly different style that would then have not been the tyson we know .
indeed, I loved it when he got up on his toes for 12 rounds to outbox Razor Ruddock.
I could see him, had his career taken a different path, evolving into a clever, Duran-style backfoot counterpuncher and defensive wizard. that kind of style would give the likes of the Kiltschko's fits.
The Dark Destroyer wrote:His prime was before Dougolass but he was prison during his prime? You're a little mixed up here.
As for Tyson-Lewis, maybe he would have beaten Lewis maybe he wouldn't, but most people rank fighters on what they've actually achieved rather than what they think they might have been capable of, and with that in mind; Lewis > Tyson.
I didnt say that
I said the best (we saw of him) was pre douglas , not his prime .
He was in jail during what would have been his prime .
The Dark Destroyer wrote:His prime was before Dougolass but he was prison during his prime? You're a little mixed up here.
As for Tyson-Lewis, maybe he would have beaten Lewis maybe he wouldn't, but most people rank fighters on what they've actually achieved rather than what they think they might have been capable of, and with that in mind; Lewis > Tyson.
I didnt say that
I said the best (we saw of him) was pre douglas , not his prime .
He was in jail during what would have been his prime .
Trying to take my comments out of context eh
Your comments are being taken in perfect context, they are about Mike Tyson aren't they? Most people consider pre-prison Tyson to be his prime, when you said 'his best' I assumed that's what you meant.
You understand perfectly what i mean
Tyson didnt fight in his prime
so we can only say when his best time was .
everyone peaks at slightly different times but theres no way anyone can call a 21 year old as in their prime .
Hilarious thread is hilarious. *crumbles in the face of the boxing comedy equivalent of a right hook to the body followed by an uppercut to the chin. Damn my lack of head movement.
It all came too easy and too early for Tyson.
None of us know for sure - so its all opinion.
But I think that Tyson fell out of love with boxing around the time Rooney and D`Amato were gone.
Certain trainers bring the best out of a fighter. Rooney suited Tyson in the younger years.
What should have been Tysons peak years were wasted I think with Tyson pretty much training himself.
The Dark Destroyer wrote:He was 25 when he went to his prison, and most fighters don't become world champions at 21. I think he peaked before prison, and lost to Douglass in his prime.
you think ... But you dont know he peaked then , none of us do .
he was in prison and didnt get the chance to show any other
but if you take the heavyweight division of today people are calling fury just a baby and that a 29 year old price is still improving ,
I think the most frustrating thing in this thread is that various people have effectively claimed that Ali or Tyson were shite. Both, especially Ali, were clearly tremendous. Kind of like the thread about a year ago when some mental cases were claiming some welterweight also ran from the '70s would destroy Mayweather. Do me a favour.
Tyson has those 2 things modern fans love more than anything…speed and power…
But Tyson himself would tell you that punching harder and faster doesn’t mean you always win.
And the peak argument could be said about any boxer ever…
Tyson was so good, so young, because that’s all he did as a kid. So he was amazing at such a young age. Don’t make the error of extrapolating that and concluding that he would have been Galactus at 28 if not for rape, prison, trainer and the death of an old man who was his mentor and because he stopped moving his head…
He burnt out and imploded because he was so good so young… And the mental fragility was always there. The punch in the street versus Mitch Green…having the clap when he fought Berbick…he was always a fornicate up…it just didn’t show until he met someone who fancied they could beat him.
Was he great? I think so.
Could he beat Ali? Highly unlikely.
He’d beat plenty of great heavies but he gets swatted by plenty of them too.
There was a cracking bloke on here who used to post called TerryD…something like that…a lot of those old posts got deleted…
He once pointed out that Tyson’s style was hard to continue with through a whole career due to the amount of work the back/spine has to out in. Expecting Tyson to carry that style late on was impossible…as was shown by what actually happened.
Ezzard wrote:There was a cracking bloke on here who used to post called TerryD…something like that…a lot of those old posts got deleted…
He once pointed out that Tyson’s style was hard to continue with through a whole career due to the amount of work the back/spine has to out in. Expecting Tyson to carry that style late on was impossible…as was shown by what actually happened.
Someone compromised Terry’s account by hitting it with a right hook to the body followed by a right uppercut to the chin. He tried to return, but even though he had worked out how to defend against that combo his pro-Lewis outlook collapsed again after someone shouted out numbered combinations at him. Terry was last seen in the Garden Of Eden, he was sat with Adam, Eve and Tyson bemoaning his own ultra-short prime and dismissing longevity as “a queer’s game”.
Looking On wrote:
Tyson was a better boxer than he gets credited for , not just a heavy punching brawler .
i know he beat some big guys but i think in todays environment he would have had to evolve a slightly different style that would then have not been the tyson we know .
indeed, I loved it when he got up on his toes for 12 rounds to outbox Razor Ruddock.
I could see him, had his career taken a different path, evolving into a clever, Duran-style backfoot counterpuncher and defensive wizard. that kind of style would give the likes of the Kiltschko's fits.
Ezzard wrote:There was a cracking bloke on here who used to post called TerryD…something like that…a lot of those old posts got deleted…
He once pointed out that Tyson’s style was hard to continue with through a whole career due to the amount of work the back/spine has to out in. Expecting Tyson to carry that style late on was impossible…as was shown by what actually happened.
Someone compromised Terry’s account by hitting it with a right hook to the body followed by a right uppercut to the chin. He tried to return, but even though he had worked out how to defend against that combo his pro-Lewis outlook collapsed again after someone shouted out numbered combinations at him. Terry was last seen in the Garden Of Eden, he was sat with Adam, Eve and Tyson bemoaning his own ultra-short prime and dismissing longevity as “a queer’s game”.
I believe Cus D'Amato was also there in the G of E. few people realise how much Terry D's career as a poster went off the rails after Cus's death. he could have left a real legacy but his posting prime was short
Ezzard wrote:There was a cracking bloke on here who used to post called TerryD…something like that…a lot of those old posts got deleted…
He once pointed out that Tyson’s style was hard to continue with through a whole career due to the amount of work the back/spine has to out in. Expecting Tyson to carry that style late on was impossible…as was shown by what actually happened.
Someone compromised Terry’s account by hitting it with a right hook to the body followed by a right uppercut to the chin. He tried to return, but even though he had worked out how to defend against that combo his pro-Lewis outlook collapsed again after someone shouted out numbered combinations at him. Terry was last seen in the Garden Of Eden, he was sat with Adam, Eve and Tyson bemoaning his own ultra-short prime and dismissing longevity as “a queer’s game”.
I believe Cus D'Amato was also there in the G of E. few people realise how much Terry D's career as a poster went off the rails after Cus's death. he could have left a real legacy but his posting prime was short
People picking tyson and basing their opinion on the notion that we didn't see tyson's peak because he was in prison should remember that ali was banned from boxing at 25 and didn't fight for another 3 & half years. At that point ali was undefeated and looking unbeatable. As great as ali was, it's arguable we didn't see his peak. After a torrid opening 2 or 3 rounds peak Ali whips peak Mike IMHO.
I’ve been keeping TerryD alive in my loft for the last few years…he exists entombed with the original Iron Maiden I won on a “Buy It Now” ebay auction off a bloke specialising in memorabilia from “Tommy” The Rock Opera.
People on here saying Tyson was overated are complete fools with no knowledge!!
Youngest heavyweight champion ripping it from berbick! Who was a decent champion.
Some numpty on here saying Bruno was his best opponent!! Tony tucker was live at that time as was bonecrusher,pinklon Thomas ,tony tubs,Carl Williams, also Holmes & spinks,
