Steve Collins calls out RJJ, calls him a coward.

[palooka]

My recollection is that Collins retired because he couldn't get the Jones fight, and he didn't feel there was anyone else out there worth fighting at that stage of his career.

The Calzaghe fight was high risk/low reward, as JC was the young up-and-comer and Collins was the established champion who was only looking for the massive fights. Much like the Calzaghe-Froch scenario a few years later.

A duck is a duck.

[CiganoBoxer]

My recollection is that Collins retired because he couldn't get the Jones fight, and he didn't feel there was anyone else out there worth fighting at that stage of his career.

The Calzaghe fight was high risk/low reward, as JC was the young up-and-comer and Collins was the established champion who was only looking for the massive fights. Much like the Calzaghe-Froch scenario a few years later.

Your talking silly,when froch was calling out Calzaghe ,joe was fighting legends ,but when Calzaghe was no1 contender to Collins and steve was wbo champion,Collins was fighting the likes of Craig Cummings,Frederic Seillier hardly marquee names ,Collins knew how good calzaghe was and how many ABA titles he won as a kid ,Collins didn't want no truck with Calzaghe dont kid yourself.

[palooka]

My recollection is that Collins retired because he couldn't get the Jones fight, and he didn't feel there was anyone else out there worth fighting at that stage of his career.

The Calzaghe fight was high risk/low reward, as JC was the young up-and-comer and Collins was the established champion who was only looking for the massive fights. Much like the Calzaghe-Froch scenario a few years later.

Your talking silly,when froch was calling out Calzaghe ,joe was fighting legends ,but when Calzaghe was no1 contender to Collins and steve was wbo champion,Collins was fighting the likes of Craig Cummings,Frederic Seillier hardly marquee names ,Collins knew how good calzaghe was and how many ABA titles he won as a kid ,Collins didn't want no truck with Calzaghe dont kid yourself.

Well put Mr

[greenyox3]

My recollection is that Collins retired because he couldn't get the Jones fight, and he didn't feel there was anyone else out there worth fighting at that stage of his career.

The Calzaghe fight was high risk/low reward, as JC was the young up-and-comer and Collins was the established champion who was only looking for the massive fights. Much like the Calzaghe-Froch scenario a few years later.

Your talking silly,when froch was calling out Calzaghe ,joe was fighting legends ,but when Calzaghe was no1 contender to Collins and steve was wbo champion,Collins was fighting the likes of Craig Cummings,Frederic Seillier hardly marquee names ,Collins knew how good calzaghe was and how many ABA titles he won as a kid ,Collins didn't want no truck with Calzaghe dont kid yourself.

Well put Mr

I didn't say otherwise. I said Collins saw Calzaghe as a big risk, with little reward, which he didn't feel he needed to take at that stage of his career. His legacy was already set with the victories over Benn/Eubank. Calzaghe was still creating his own legacy by fighting Hopkins etc when Froch was calling him out.

And as for saying he ducked him, will Vitali Klitschko be accused of ducking Tyson Fury when he becomes the WBC mandatory, and Klitschko retires before Fury gets a chance to fight him?

[Bricks]

RE " Show me where I said that " quoted by Dark Destroyer.

Well DD you have since explained yourself but the thread did start off with :

JESSI "Why would he call Roy a coward ? Roy fought anyone and everyone !


Dark Destroyer He didn't fight Eubank, Benn, Mcllellan, Collins, Jackson etc

You seemed to be implying he didnt fight these guys as he was avoiding them. But you have since clarified that you were merely stating facts. which you were. and than we all had a debate, which your origional post stimulated, and that is the point of a forum so

[CiganoBoxer]

Someone please tell me how beating Benn at that stage of Benns career means anything on Collins resume ?
I mean even Collins said after their fight/many times after that the Benn that he beat was a mere shadow of what took McClellan in to the deepest waters ,but there is no denying Collins beat Eubank twice tho

[palooka]

Collins was a skilled and tough, game man who had mental strength and discipline on his side. He beat some very good fighters in good style. He wasn't the best of the best at the weight - Jones was the best by a country mile. If Benn, Eubank, Collins, McCallum or anyone else had boxed on for nigh on 10 years they would have been chinned a few times and fans who weren't around at their peak would be thinking; 'What's the big deal?'. Collins had a very, very good career and earned well - Jones in his prime was a different level altogether and if he'd have packed in as champ when he ought to have no right thinking person wuld have anything to say about it.

[CiganoBoxer]

For me Jones to this day is overrated at 168 , he ducked Nunn,Benn,Eubank,Collins, and as brilliant as jones was he was never was the Linear champion at 168 or any other weight class he fought in..fact is he cherry picked who he fought in every weight class he competed in,no way his resume deserves to be hailed the best run at 168 or any other weight class

[Syntax Error]

Steve Collins 'career':

1. Lost to McCallum, Jones, Kalambay while based in States.

2. Comes to UK and becomes Middleweight champion winning the (then virtually worthless) WBO Middleweight title title beating Lightmiddle Chris Pyatt (Pyatt returned to 11st after this loss and won the Commonwealth title)

3. Twice beat a jaded, burnt out, weight drained Eubank for the WBO 12st title.

4. Has to go 12 and 11 rounds to beat Middleweights Carr & Brown.

5. Twice beats a badly shot Benn (watch Benn struggle with Perez if you question this)

6. Looks unremarkable beating the mediocre Seillier and Cummings (gets dropped in 1st by Cummings)

7. Retires rather than defend against Calzaghe.

Collins is one of the biggest hoaxes in British boxing history, a second rate contender who couldn't hack it in the US, 'made' into a 'world champion' by Barry Hearns and the WBO. Jones would have beaten him with embarrassing ease, he had slow hands, slow feet, didn't have the skill to compete with Jones, didn't have the punch to hurt him, it would have been a total mismatch (as it would have been if Collins had met a peak Eubank, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, to be frank Collins would have struggled with Reid, Wharton, Malinga etc)

Steve Collins is not British.

[CiganoBoxer]

Steve Collins 'career':

1. Lost to McCallum, Jones, Kalambay while based in States.

2. Comes to UK and becomes Middleweight champion winning the (then virtually worthless) WBO Middleweight title title beating Lightmiddle Chris Pyatt (Pyatt returned to 11st after this loss and won the Commonwealth title)

3. Twice beat a jaded, burnt out, weight drained Eubank for the WBO 12st title.

4. Has to go 12 and 11 rounds to beat Middleweights Carr & Brown.

5. Twice beats a badly shot Benn (watch Benn struggle with Perez if you question this)

6. Looks unremarkable beating the mediocre Seillier and Cummings (gets dropped in 1st by Cummings)

7. Retires rather than defend against Calzaghe.

Collins is one of the biggest hoaxes in British boxing history, a second rate contender who couldn't hack it in the US, 'made' into a 'world champion' by Barry Hearns and the WBO. Jones would have beaten him with embarrassing ease, he had slow hands, slow feet, didn't have the skill to compete with Jones, didn't have the punch to hurt him, it would have been a total mismatch (as it would have been if Collins had met a peak Eubank, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, to be frank Collins would have struggled with Reid, Wharton, Malinga etc)

Steve Collins is not British.

Maybe your right but in that radio interview he dont give a shit about being regarded as British...just saying

[Dixonian]

It removes no doubt as they never fought. Nardiello beat Malinga but that does not make him any better than those three, does it? Jones was excellent, but unfortunately probably juicing his whole career.

Perhaps it doesn't remove doubt for you mate, but it certainly does for me. When he won the IBF super middleweight title, his victory was lorded as the biggest whupping in 20 years by Ring Magazine of a dominating champion.

RJJ went straight in with a 46-0 James Toney who was flying high in the pound for pound lists at the time.

He wiped the floor with him, danced rings around him and sent him to the canvas. He was masterful.

I even recall an interview with Eubank and he was very frank saying the reason he never fought Jones was he would have been beaten up. Although he since come out with other bollocks to the contrary.

Actually all this reminds me to wheel out the played-to-death Jonathan Ross show where James Toney insults Eubank and Benn via Satellite phone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3zWZ12ZZY

I actually remember Eubank saying that a fight with Jones would have been dangerous for his own life - suggesting that this was because of his inability to admit defeat and determination to fight to the bitter end. He actually said he probably would have lost, but would have taken Jones into a war. I'm paraphrasing from his autobiography here.

[Dixonian]

Personally, I respect Collins for maximising his talent and being a tough fella but like a few other posters I wouldn't put him in the same class as a peak Eubank, Benn or, of course, Watson. Must give him credit for timing: comes in when Eubank and Benn were fading and jumps out just in time to avoid Calzaghe. And who should step into save that show after Collins late pull out? Eubank.

[CiganoBoxer]

Personally, I respect Collins for maximising his talent and being a tough fella but like a few other posters I wouldn't put him in the same class as a peak Eubank, Benn or, of course, Watson. Must give him credit for timing: comes in when Eubank and Benn were fading and jumps out just in time to avoid Calzaghe. And who should step into save that show after Collins late pull out? Eubank.

this x 2

[CiganoBoxer]

It removes no doubt as they never fought. Nardiello beat Malinga but that does not make him any better than those three, does it? Jones was excellent, but unfortunately probably juicing his whole career.

Perhaps it doesn't remove doubt for you mate, but it certainly does for me. When he won the IBF super middleweight title, his victory was lorded as the biggest whupping in 20 years by Ring Magazine of a dominating champion.

RJJ went straight in with a 46-0 James Toney who was flying high in the pound for pound lists at the time.

He wiped the floor with him, danced rings around him and sent him to the canvas. He was masterful.

I even recall an interview with Eubank and he was very frank saying the reason he never fought Jones was he would have been beaten up. Although he since come out with other bollocks to the contrary.

Actually all this reminds me to wheel out the played-to-death Jonathan Ross show where James Toney insults Eubank and Benn via Satellite phone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3zWZ12ZZY

I actually remember Eubank saying that a fight with Jones would have been dangerous for his own life - suggesting that this was because of his inability to admit defeat and determination to fight to the bitter end. He actually said he probably would have lost, but would have taken Jones into a war. I'm paraphrasing from his autobiography here.

Why do i remember Benn saying that ,but saying he needed that type of fight to get up for beatinbg/fighting jones

[polecateddy]

Steve Collins was obviously a handful, but I think a fresher Eubank would have handled him. And talent-wise he pales in comparison to Calzaghe. Collins had a good chin and work-rate, but his hand-speed was average at best, along with his power. I think even Benn concedes that he was done after the McClellan fight. If Roy Jones got into a ring with Steve today it would be a quick and horrible execution in the manner of Danny Green v Paul Briggs.

[banjo]

Perhaps it doesn't remove doubt for you mate, but it certainly does for me. When he won the IBF super middleweight title, his victory was lorded as the biggest whupping in 20 years by Ring Magazine of a dominating champion.

RJJ went straight in with a 46-0 James Toney who was flying high in the pound for pound lists at the time.

He wiped the floor with him, danced rings around him and sent him to the canvas. He was masterful.

I even recall an interview with Eubank and he was very frank saying the reason he never fought Jones was he would have been beaten up. Although he since come out with other bollocks to the contrary.

Actually all this reminds me to wheel out the played-to-death Jonathan Ross show where James Toney insults Eubank and Benn via Satellite phone: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW3zWZ12ZZY

I actually remember Eubank saying that a fight with Jones would have been dangerous for his own life - suggesting that this was because of his inability to admit defeat and determination to fight to the bitter end. He actually said he probably would have lost, but would have taken Jones into a war. I'm paraphrasing from his autobiography here.

Why do i remember Benn saying that ,but saying he needed that type of fight to get up for beatinbg/fighting jones

I think Benn said something along the lines of a fight with Jones jr. would have terrified him into the best shape he's ever been in, I think that was just after he beat Nardiello or Perez.

[Goz]

What this thread does sum up is how shit boxing can be and what a shame it is that Jones, Eubank, Toney, Nunn, Benn etc didn't fight each other lots of times, trilogies all over the place. As boxing fans we were denied some great fights and nights.

[Wales]

Oh for a super 6 back then!

[Goz]

Would have been amazing

[Syntax Error]

Steve Collins 'career':

1. Lost to McCallum, Jones, Kalambay while based in States.

2. Comes to UK and becomes Middleweight champion winning the (then virtually worthless) WBO Middleweight title title beating Lightmiddle Chris Pyatt (Pyatt returned to 11st after this loss and won the Commonwealth title)

3. Twice beat a jaded, burnt out, weight drained Eubank for the WBO 12st title.

4. Has to go 12 and 11 rounds to beat Middleweights Carr & Brown.

5. Twice beats a badly shot Benn (watch Benn struggle with Perez if you question this)

6. Looks unremarkable beating the mediocre Seillier and Cummings (gets dropped in 1st by Cummings)

7. Retires rather than defend against Calzaghe.

Collins is one of the biggest hoaxes in British boxing history, a second rate contender who couldn't hack it in the US, 'made' into a 'world champion' by Barry Hearns and the WBO. Jones would have beaten him with embarrassing ease, he had slow hands, slow feet, didn't have the skill to compete with Jones, didn't have the punch to hurt him, it would have been a total mismatch (as it would have been if Collins had met a peak Eubank, Benn, McClellan, Jackson, to be frank Collins would have struggled with Reid, Wharton, Malinga etc)

Steve Collins is not British.

British/Irish he was sh*t, one minor error on my part but the rest of my post is 100% correct ... anything else pedant?

It's not pedantry; he isn't British; fact.

[Syntax Error]

Steve Collins is not British.

He isn't, and the poster wasn't claiming him to be, he said he was a big part of British boxing history, I'd say Steve Collins was a part of British boxing history.

Fair enough.

If I got the wrong end of the stick, then I apologise to that poster.

[Alba]

Steve Collins should stay retired ...

[jamesmcdonnell]

Oh for Fekk's sake!

[jamesmcdonnell]

He did not fight Benn or Eubank ? Lol

Did I say he avoided them? No, I stated a fact, LOL.

Benn and Eubank were fantastic for British boxing but when I watch this video, from that era, against an opponent that beat Reid, and Benn and Eubank struggled with - it removes all doubt:-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrqyVNWNIzg

I forgot he beat Malinga. Malinga was exceptionally cute, slippery as hell and Roy beat him with ease.

[banjo]

Didn't Collins once say the WBO is one title he'd never fight for?