Larry Holmes vs Jack Dempsey

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Sep 2005, 01:13

who wins

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 28 Sep 2005, 06:37

I'm going to say Dempsey; I don't recall seeing a prime Holmes fight a boxer that would be coming aggressively for him. Before winning the title and early in his reign Holmes moved very well in fights against Shavers in particular but Earnie was a slow fighter at the first bell and his poor stamina did nothing to remedy that problem. Dempsey would be a buzz saw, much more aggressive than anybody Holmes ever fought and much better at that type of fight, and with the stamina to keep at it.
And Holmes, as he ruled the roost, became less and less mobile in terms of escaping or avoiding; he did move well but more in an attacking mode because most of his opponents were driven back by his jab and right hand. Tunney used a lot of movement to keep Dempsey at a range and I don't know if Holmes could have done that even at his best.
The weapons in the Holmes arsenal were the jab and the straight right; Weaver made him start using the right uppercut and that worked well for him, but he wasn't much for body punching and I'd have to see proof to believe he threw left hooks. The jab and the right aren't the punches to beat Dempsey I don't believe, though Tunney did it. The jab gives him something to work inside off of- slipping it for example- and weaving under and aroud a straight right to land the hook was Dempsey's trademark. He had too much for Larry to fight up close with him. Jack by UD over 15 or late tko

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Sep 2005, 09:16

I think Jack would take an early lead. he was very quick and would throw a large number of punches. He'd go to the body and might even stagger Holmes once ro twice. i can see Holmes getting back into the fight with his jab though and slowly coming to life. He either stops Jack late or there is a a very controversial decision that could go either way.

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 28 Sep 2005, 09:19

Doggone, I know my thoughts on this are likely to be unpopular, but I just can't get that little bit of size differential out of my brain.

Holmes in his prime: 6-foot, 3-inches / 210-215 pounds
Dempsey in his prime: 6-foot, 1-inch / 190-195 pounds

I realize we're not talking about a lot here. But when you factor that in with a few other things like hand speed, ring smarts and boxing ability, I think you arrive at an appreciable disadvantage for Dempsey, even though I'm not overlooking his power.

Put it this way, for me to believe Dempsey would beat Holmes, I'd have to believe Tunney would also beat Holmes. There is a similarity in style. However, since I don't think that would be the case, I'd have to go with Holmes to beat Dempsey on the basis of that little added size advantage, which DOES mean something between HWs when the bigger of two fighters also has considerable boxing skills.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 28 Sep 2005, 11:16

I think, based on what I've read about Dempsey and a little bit of the tape I've seen, that he may well have been faster of hand and foot than Holmes. Also, Larry's style- very basic, jab jab right hand- doesn't really highlight handspeed. The big challenge for Larry, in order to get his gamme in gear, would be to get Dempsey to stand up, to not attack in that crouch, bobbing and weaving, to get him hesitant so that Larry could control instead of react to the movement in the ring.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 28 Sep 2005, 11:20

I know Jack was a two handed hitter but his goodnight shot was the left hook. Larry was more susceptibel to right hands (Shavers and Snipes) whereas he nullified Cooney's left hook quite well.

I agree about Jack and the crouch. Once he starts to tire and stands up straighter Holmes can take over. I would exect jack to have built up a lead though.

I still go with Holmes.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 28 Sep 2005, 11:37

6'1, 190 vs 6'3, 210 . . . ??? esp. for HWs that differential is extreamly small, and Jack was the more compact guy and Larry was very lanky for his height.

Nevertheless I pick Holmes b/c of the left jab. Could go either way though.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 28 Sep 2005, 13:07

Larry would have a problem with left hooks on this night, I tyhink. The reason being that (1) Dempsey will get inside, especially early on, and when Larry was compelled to fight inside his go to punch was the right uppercut (2) he will have to use the uppercut a lot more than he usually might because of Dempsey's crouch. He could get under and around jabs and right hands all day. To slow him up, much less stand him up, Holmes would have to land something hard and that means uppercut.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Sep 2005, 15:00

Holmes like Tunney was a great puzzle solver. He could get into the fight, take his time, figure his man out, develop a plan and succeed. He had the skills, power, and intelligent mental toughness. I lean toward a decsion in Holmes favor. I think somewhat in the way Tunney beat Jack. Look for his jab to be the deciding factor. Holmes might find himself picking himself up in a round or two but would have the points piling so's that it would not matter. Jack has the punchers chance but in his prime Holmes would not stay put when decked.

theone · Post by **theone** » 28 Sep 2005, 20:15

I wouldnt use the Tunney fight as an example here because Dempsey was well past his best when they fought. However, I'm going to have to I agree with the rest of Boxbuzz assesment. Holmes jab, size and movement should win the night for him. Dempsey's speed and power would make it dangerous for Holmes the whole way however.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 28 Sep 2005, 20:31

dempsey always faired well against heavy hitters, i think he duels it out with holmes and KO holmes late with a left hook. his signature goodnight punch.

The Scranton Assassin · Post by **The Scranton Assassin** » 29 Sep 2005, 04:56

Dempsey by late ko or decision

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Oct 2005, 14:31

This would be an interesting matchup. I think the dempseys, tyson, marciano, fraziers had the kind of style that gives holmes problems.

I can see holmes outboxing dempsey at a long range and landing a lot of jabs. but i see dempsey taking holmes jab so he can land 3 of his own hard shots. i cant see holmes being able to keep dempsey off of him. i watched cooney really hurt holmes to the body a couple times, and i can see jack doing the same with his powerful left hook. i see holmes scoring points with his jab and outbox dempsey some of the rounds but ultimately i see jack winning it with effective aggresion, landing the harder blows, and constant pressure. holmes is also susceptible to right hand and i can see jack staggering or flooring holmes with his right. jack had a good right hand.

dempsey 15 majority decision

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 01 Oct 2005, 14:39

Dempsey would have downed Larry in the 5th, Larry would then have got up & outboxed Dempsey over 15.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 01 Oct 2005, 17:14

Syntax Error wrote:Dempsey would have downed Larry in the 5th, Larry would then have got up & outboxed over Dempsey 15.

most people didnt just get up from dempsey knockdowns...he was a great swarmer and often knocked people down again n again.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 01 Oct 2005, 18:22

rory,

well one of the main reasons he knocked people back down again is he had the "standing over a fallen fighter rule." he could hit the man right when he stood up, there was no neutral corner rule until he fought tunney. it made it easier to knock ur opponent out

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 01 Oct 2005, 19:27

If they both wore the same gloves, I can't imagine a power advantage for Dempsey.

That being said, every other advantage goes to Holmes... Who would give Dempsey a horrendous beating.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 01 Oct 2005, 19:39

I was wondering when someone was going to bring that up BB, so when comparing him ot others, one may want to establish which set of rule will apply.

Though Roy Jones attempted to resurrect this old rule with Montell.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 01 Oct 2005, 20:09

Dempsey always had trouble with movers... Meehan, Gibbons, then ofcourse Tunney all gave him hell. Holmes was bigger, stronger and faster than Tunney and the rest and I see him dominating with his jab and using his size and strength (which was always underrated) and winning by a late ko in about 12 rounds...

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 01 Oct 2005, 20:45

Holmes wins, ref stops it in the 9th. Holmes beats him half to death.

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 01 Oct 2005, 21:12

Larry would have died.

silkov · Post by **silkov** » 02 Oct 2005, 06:12

wlvrne wrote:Larry would have died.

Fool.... stick to watching wrestling...

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 02 Oct 2005, 09:42

i think it would be a close fight, but i just think dempsey is too good. Holmes never faced anyone quite as talented as a prime dempsey, but then again Dempsey never faced anyone as good as a prime holmes. i think that out of 100 fights, dempsey would win maybe 60 times.... im just trying to say i dont think it would be a blo0wout, but i think most of the fights woudl end in knockouts, these 2 sluggers would battle to the finish. if it was 1 fight and they were both in there primes, i just go with gut instinct and say dempsey knocks holmes out in the 14th round.

wlvrne · Post by **wlvrne** » 02 Oct 2005, 11:24

silkov wrote:
wlvrne wrote:Larry would have died.
Fool.... stick to watching wrestling...

Careful, Silkglove, or don't you know what the Bible says about one man calling another a fool?

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 02 Oct 2005, 13:46

This certainly would have been a competitve fight. The big question would be if Holmes' jab would keep off Dempsey. Holmes had one of the best jabs ever and should be effective with it, even though Dempsey wasn't the easiest guy to hit.
Holmes had a good chin and could weather the storm if he was hurt. The most likely result would be Holmes winning a decision. However, Dempsey would have a punchers; chance for a KO, and could conceiveably even outhustle Holmes for a decision. I would say Holmes would win 2 out of 3 times.

Larry Holmes vs Jack Dempsey

Larry Holmes vs Jack Dempsey

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