which swarmer stood the best chance against foreman??

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Oct 2005, 21:19

who do you think?

theone · Post by **theone** » 03 Oct 2005, 21:26

None. That is exactly the very last way anyone should fight prime Foreman.
I sincerely believe that no other fighter in history except for Ali would have beaten a prime Foreman.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Oct 2005, 21:30

i disagree, i am 100% sure joe louis and larry holmes would beat foreman.

but its not like foreman is unbeatable against swarmers.

u take the frazier fights as examples, BUT

- frazier was past his prime, he didnt have his same reflexes, speed, and power. IMO he was never the same after ali I, use the wieght gain as an example. frazier didnt look good in stander and daniel fights. frazier after the ali fight didnt have his left hook anymore.

- frazier was 10lb overweight

- frazier landed hard left hooks in the first round which showed foreman lacked defense, frazier just didnt have a right hand for foreman to fear

theone · Post by **theone** » 03 Oct 2005, 21:41

i disagree, i am 100% sure joe louis and larry holmes would beat foreman.
I 100% disagree with you although i beleive he would have beaten Louis easier than Holmes.

frazier was past his prime, he didnt have his same reflexes, speed, and power. IMO he was never the same after ali I, use the wieght gain as an example. frazier didnt look good in stander and daniel fights. frazier after the ali fight didnt have his left hook anymore.

How past his prime could he have been? The thrilla in Manilla should he still had alot left. The fight with Foreman was so one-sided its hard to imagine Frazier at any point of his career being competitive with Foreman. In fact his style was taylor made for him.

frazier landed hard left hooks in the first round which showed foreman lacked defense, frazier just didnt have a right hand for foreman to fear

Frazier posessed the best left hook in heavyweight history and would have landed it on anyone. How is this a negative on Foreman?

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 03 Oct 2005, 22:07

It is sometimes hard to tell if a fighter is past his prime. Joe was 29 when he fought Big George so age wise he should have still been okay, although their have been many fighters washed up at younger ages than that. He had around 30 fights at the time, that is not an excessive number of fights. Plus alot of them were knockouts, so I didn't see him as being shopworn.

The biggest problem I saw with Joe if you go back and review the fight, is that he fought Foreman the same way he fought Jimmy Ellis.With Ellis Fraizier knew he would wade through him, shake off any punches, and sooner or later would connect and Ellis would cave like a house of cards. Fraizier made the mistake of using that strategy on Foreman but unfortunatley for Joe, Big George was no Jimmy Ellis and Fraizier had no backup stratagy to resort to.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 03 Oct 2005, 22:10

theone wrote:i disagree, i am 100% sure joe louis and larry holmes would beat foreman.
I 100% disagree with you although i beleive he would have beaten Louis easier than Holmes.

frazier was past his prime, he didnt have his same reflexes, speed, and power. IMO he was never the same after ali I, use the wieght gain as an example. frazier didnt look good in stander and daniel fights. frazier after the ali fight didnt have his left hook anymore.

How past his prime could he have been? The thrilla in Manilla should he still had alot left. The fight with Foreman was so one-sided its hard to imagine Frazier at any point of his career being competitive with Foreman. In fact his style was taylor made for him.

frazier landed hard left hooks in the first round which showed foreman lacked defense, frazier just didnt have a right hand for foreman to fear

Frazier posessed the best left hook in heavyweight history and would have landed it on anyone. How is this a negative on Foreman?

thrilla and manilla???? it was a battle of two past there prines greats who were nearly shot. it was a great classic fight, but both looked much better in that fight then they really were.

frazier was 215lb for foreman fight. frazier was 205lb for ali, ellis, foster fights. that extra weight slowed joe down.
MAYBE JOES STYLE WAS TAYLOR MADE FOR FOREMAN, but joe didnt help himself much either. i would have loved to see a peak frazier against foreman. see how different it would have been.

also i might add, frazier barely knocked anyone out after the ali-frazier I fight. he didnt have his same power anymore. use the fights post ali I as examples

theone · Post by **theone** » 03 Oct 2005, 23:03

frazier barely knocked anyone out after the ali-frazier I fight.

Fighting Ali and Foreman twice more each didnt help out his winning, or ko percentage. Bugnar was a tough contender who would not be knocked out(not counting his very first fight) until Shavers did it 10 years later.

would have loved to see a peak frazier against foreman. see how different it would have been.

Another couple of rounds if any.

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 04 Oct 2005, 01:44

In Tysons prime not only would I say that he had the best chance of any swarmer but I would make him a favorite. He was strong, durable, and hit just as hard as foreman, not to mention he was fast as hell. I think hed knock Foreman out before Foreman knew who he was in the ring with.