12/22 - Adamek/Cunningham on NBC Fight "Rice"

[JCS]

This one had a ton of close rounds, but it involved two totally separate types of fighting styles in those rounds.

Cunningham's movement and more active, clean punches with so so power.
or
Adamek's ring control and jarring punches that landed moderately clean (at best) and less often.

I could see ringside viewers leaning more toward Adamek given his added power.. and given that, I can see a reasonable argument for Adamek getting the decision.

[jrc26]

I have it recorded for later. From the sound of it the extra weight and aging didn't produce an exciting fight like the first? Usually two guys slowing down slightly helps make for a more crowd pleasing fight. That's dissapointing I was looking forward to this one. Not worth a watch if I know the results?

[marcianofan]

I was watching about an hour behind real time, and as such wasn't able to post during the RBR phase, but this is a blatant robbery. Not even a particularly close fight. 116-112 Cunningham is how I had it, and I think that's as close as it could possibly be. Maybe as wide as 118-110 if you're being generous to Cunningham. Here's my round-by-round:

1: Adamek, Toss-up
2: Cunningham, Clear
3: Cunningham, Clear
4: Cunningham, close but clear
5: Adamek, close but clear
6: Cunningham, Clear
7: Cunningham, Clear
8: Cunnigham, close but clear
9: Adamek, toss up
10: Cunningham, clear
11: Cunnigham, clear (I don't know what some of you guys were seeing...not remotely close as I saw it)
12: Adamek, clear

Cunningham won 8 rounds at a minimum. Boxed Adamek's ears off. I don't usually like boxer-movers much when scoring, either, but Adamek just plain got outclassed. Cunningham was sharpshooting him like nobody's business.

Did anybody catch the extremely understated point that the fight was for the IBF North American Heavyweight Championship? Do you think Kenny Rice is really so oblivious to the sport of boxing that he truly thinks that irrelevant thing is worth mentioning every 3rd sentence, or do you think it's some weird-ass promotional directive he has been given by Main Events or NBC? He does it every time. Doesn't matter how pointless or regional the title is, he treats it like it's the legitimate world championship.

[Blodhemn]

I can't take your scoring seriously seeing as you scored the 11th for USS. Wtf, that one was of the clearest rounds of the fight.

[marcianofan]

I can't take your scoring seriously seeing as you scored the 11th for USS. Wtf, that one was of the clearest rounds of the fight.

Dude. I re-watched the round, just to make sure I wasn't talking out my ass. Please do me a favor and mute BJ Flores. Cunningham put the screws to Adamek for the entire first half of the round. Adamek didn't land a punch in that entire span. Threw a few that glanced off the gloves. Didn't land any. Landed only one or two clean the entire round, one of which was off the top of the head, which isn't exactly the most effective spot to land. Cunningham landed lots of clean shots flush. I agree that it was one of the clearest rounds of the fight, but Cunningham was the winner. No question. Even if Cunningham didn't land anything after the 1:30 mark, he still wins the round clearly. But he did plenty more after that, as well...I think he even won the second half of the round, too.

[Datsue]

I was watching about an hour behind real time, and as such wasn't able to post during the RBR phase, but this is a blatant robbery. Not even a particularly close fight. 116-112 Cunningham is how I had it, and I think that's as close as it could possibly be. Maybe as wide as 118-110 if you're being generous to Cunningham. Here's my round-by-round:

1: Adamek, Toss-up
2: Cunningham, Clear
3: Cunningham, Clear
4: Cunningham, close but clear
5: Adamek, close but clear
6: Cunningham, Clear
7: Cunningham, Clear
8: Cunnigham, close but clear
9: Adamek, toss up
10: Cunningham, clear
11: Cunnigham, clear (I don't know what some of you guys were seeing...not remotely close as I saw it)
12: Adamek, clear

Cunningham won 8 rounds at a minimum. Boxed Adamek's ears off. I don't usually like boxer-movers much when scoring, either, but Adamek just plain got outclassed. Cunningham was sharpshooting him like nobody's business.

Did anybody catch the extremely understated point that the fight was for the IBF North American Heavyweight Championship? Do you think Kenny Rice is really so oblivious to the sport of boxing that he truly thinks that irrelevant thing is worth mentioning every 3rd sentence, or do you think it's some weird-ass promotional directive he has been given by Main Events or NBC? He does it every time. Doesn't matter how pointless or regional the title is, he treats it like it's the legitimate world championship.

Class scorecard. Re-watched it & had it the same as you.

Blodhemn: you're a biased one-note right-wing bigoted prejudiced wingnut fuckhole, & the worst type of one because you haven't even got the bollocks to stand up & be a man & admit what you are. Every single post your worldview, shitty politics & shite attitude towards the human race bleeds through. Not normally my business, any of that, unless I have the misfortune to get into a conversation with you, but fvck me maybe it's time to rethink your life when your shitty view of humanity as a species clouds your ability to honestly score a fight.

If it Adamek had done to Cunningham what Cunningham did to Adamek you'd be screaming bias from the rooftops, you'd be coming up with conspiracy theories, I bet you'd even play the fvcking race card about how whites "always" get a raw deal. It's very difficult not to see a certain pattern in your posting, views & behaviour. You're as bad as Tunney, you're obvious & quite quite sickening.

I'm gonna try not to respond to you any further because it'll be a complete waste of time & breath.

But a blind (non-prejudiced) man could see Cunningham won that fight. It's not your shitty pathetic worldview I hate most, it's the dishonesty of it. At least someone like RAZORko or whatever he's called cheerfully admits to being an evil pudendum. You're worse. You clothe it in "Oh I'm just reasonable lalalala".

Gah.

Enough. Sorry for thread pollution.

[JCS]

116-112 Cunningham is how I had it, and I think that's as close as it could possibly be. Maybe as wide as 118-110 if you're being generous to Cunningham.

I hate comments like this. So basically, you're saying that your card is at the extreme for Cunningham and anyone's card has to be within 116-112 and 118-110 to know what they are talking about. Come on..

I had it 115-113 Cunningham.

The only round I disagree with you on was 11. I think Adamek could've easily got round 10, so that'd be a draw right there. There were also other close rounds that I gave to Cunningham.. just like a couple of the rounds I gave to Adamek were close. Hell, plenty of the rounds in this fight could've went either way.

But apparently I'm either a liar or shouldn't bother scoring any more fights.

[Datsue]

116-112 Cunningham is how I had it, and I think that's as close as it could possibly be. Maybe as wide as 118-110 if you're being generous to Cunningham.

I hate comments like this. So basically, you're saying that your card is at the extreme for Cunningham and anyone's card has to be within 116-112 and 118-110 to know what they are talking about. Come on..

I had it 115-113 Cunningham.

The only round I disagree with you on was 11. I think Adamek could've easily got round 10, so that'd be a draw right there. There were also other close rounds that I gave to Cunningham.. just like a couple of the rounds I gave to Adamek were close. Hell, plenty of the rounds in this fight could've went either way.

But apparently I'm either a liar or shouldn't bother scoring any more fights.

We-ell, 116-112 & two close rounds is a draw. That's a margin of error that's acceptable, obviously, it's just mathematics. So no problem there.

But an Adamek win is either fanboyism, bias or... Something Else.

Not accusing you of anything man & I'm sorry if my growing ire over a few months with a certain other someone has come to a head here & spilled over inappropriately. Sincerely sorry. Shouldn't've done that.

[marcianofan]

I hate comments like this. So basically, you're saying that your card is at the extreme for Cunningham and anyone's card has to be within 116-112 and 118-110 to know what they are talking about. Come on..

I had it 115-113 Cunningham.

The only round I disagree with you on was 11. I think Adamek could've easily got round 10, so that'd be a draw right there. There were also other close rounds that I gave to Cunningham.. just like a couple of the rounds I gave to Adamek were close. Hell, plenty of the rounds in this fight could've went either way.

But apparently I'm either a liar or shouldn't bother scoring any more fights.

Well, I think I gave Adamek every round he could possibly have won. What I saw wasn't compatible with what you saw, I guess. I closely scored every round, and I'm very serious about the way I judge fights. I do it like I am getting paid, because I expect that soon I will be. So I can't say that I'm not typically pretty confident in my cards- or at least the ranges of reasonable scores that accompany them. I think you missed something. Sorry about that. If you think I might have missed something, it's no skin off my back. If you feel as strongly about your opinion as I do about mine, my apparently misguided opinion probably shouldn't bother you too much, either.

But I really must urge you and anyone else that thought Adamek won round 11 to PLEASE watch it again, and do whatever you need to do to ensure that you're not being influenced by the commentary. Because I've seldom, if ever, felt so strongly that I'm right on a legitimate disagreement over a particular round. If Adamek won round 11, then I should never judge boxing again. It was a lopsided round for Cunningham. I'm truly and earnestly bewildered as to how it could be seen as anything but that by someone watching the same broadcast, except as a result of the influence of just awful commentary. Again, I'm sorry that we disagree, but I'm not trying to make people feel bad. I'm just candidly sharing my strongly-held opinions, which of course you are more than free to disagree with just as strongly as I disagree with yours.

[Datsue]

I will be the minority. I don't see how this can be argued as a draw. And the very fact there is still so much arguing about what on paper looks like a clear win for USS is shocking. Maybe this shows how wrong and how bad the scoring system is. This is not a democracy or a argument based system. Scoring should be as clear as possible and with as little room as possible for interpretation or argumentation. Clearly not what is happening now.

[Blodhemn]

I was watching about an hour behind real time, and as such wasn't able to post during the RBR phase, but this is a blatant robbery. Not even a particularly close fight. 116-112 Cunningham is how I had it, and I think that's as close as it could possibly be. Maybe as wide as 118-110 if you're being generous to Cunningham. Here's my round-by-round:

1: Adamek, Toss-up
2: Cunningham, Clear
3: Cunningham, Clear
4: Cunningham, close but clear
5: Adamek, close but clear
6: Cunningham, Clear
7: Cunningham, Clear
8: Cunnigham, close but clear
9: Adamek, toss up
10: Cunningham, clear
11: Cunnigham, clear (I don't know what some of you guys were seeing...not remotely close as I saw it)
12: Adamek, clear

Cunningham won 8 rounds at a minimum. Boxed Adamek's ears off. I don't usually like boxer-movers much when scoring, either, but Adamek just plain got outclassed. Cunningham was sharpshooting him like nobody's business.

Did anybody catch the extremely understated point that the fight was for the IBF North American Heavyweight Championship? Do you think Kenny Rice is really so oblivious to the sport of boxing that he truly thinks that irrelevant thing is worth mentioning every 3rd sentence, or do you think it's some weird-ass promotional directive he has been given by Main Events or NBC? He does it every time. Doesn't matter how pointless or regional the title is, he treats it like it's the legitimate world championship.

Class scorecard. Re-watched it & had it the same as you.

Blodhemn: you're a biased one-note right-wing bigoted prejudiced wingnut fuckhole, & the worst type of one because you haven't even got the bollocks to stand up & be a man & admit what you are. Every single post your worldview, shitty politics & shite attitude towards the human race bleeds through. Not normally my business, any of that, unless I have the misfortune to get into a conversation with you, but fvck me maybe it's time to rethink your life when your shitty view of humanity as a species clouds your ability to honestly score a fight.

If it Adamek had done to Cunningham what Cunningham did to Adamek you'd be screaming bias from the rooftops, you'd be coming up with conspiracy theories, I bet you'd even play the fvcking race card about how whites "always" get a raw deal. It's very difficult not to see a certain pattern in your posting, views & behaviour. You're as bad as Tunney, you're obvious & quite quite sickening.

I'm gonna try not to respond to you any further because it'll be a complete waste of time & breath.

But a blind (non-prejudiced) man could see Cunningham won that fight. It's not your shitty pathetic worldview I hate most, it's the dishonesty of it. At least someone like RAZORko or whatever he's called cheerfully admits to being an evil pudendum. You're worse. You clothe it in "Oh I'm just reasonable lalalala".

Gah.

Enough. Sorry for thread pollution.

Spoken like a true woman. Get down on your knees and give me a blow job.

[chucktaylor]

I don't like the argument of less punches, but more powerful VS more punches, but less powerful. Unless a fighter is visibly staggered or knocked down, a punch is a punch. If you can't stop a guy from hitting you 3 punches to your one, you better get some knock downs or a knock out, cause other than that, you are getting out boxed.

You are right on.
A guy shouldn't be given credit for "more powerful punches" because he is perceived as a bigger puncher. Past fights can't be used as judging criteria; judgements are to be derived exclusively from the fight itself.

[JCS]

I hate comments like this. So basically, you're saying that your card is at the extreme for Cunningham and anyone's card has to be within 116-112 and 118-110 to know what they are talking about. Come on..

I had it 115-113 Cunningham.

The only round I disagree with you on was 11. I think Adamek could've easily got round 10, so that'd be a draw right there. There were also other close rounds that I gave to Cunningham.. just like a couple of the rounds I gave to Adamek were close. Hell, plenty of the rounds in this fight could've went either way.

But apparently I'm either a liar or shouldn't bother scoring any more fights.

Well, I think I gave Adamek every round he could possibly have won. What I saw wasn't compatible with what you saw, I guess. I closely scored every round, and I'm very serious about the way I judge fights. I do it like I am getting paid, because I expect that soon I will be. So I can't say that I'm not typically pretty confident in my cards- or at least the ranges of reasonable scores that accompany them. I think you missed something. Sorry about that. If you think I might have missed something, it's no skin off my back. If you feel as strongly about your opinion as I do about mine, my apparently misguided opinion probably shouldn't bother you too much, either.

But I really must urge you and anyone else that thought Adamek won round 11 to PLEASE watch it again, and do whatever you need to do to ensure that you're not being influenced by the commentary. Because I've seldom, if ever, felt so strongly that I'm right on a legitimate disagreement over a particular round. If Adamek won round 11, then I should never judge boxing again. It was a lopsided round for Cunningham. I'm truly and earnestly bewildered as to how it could be seen as anything but that by someone watching the same broadcast, except as a result of the influence of just awful commentary. Again, I'm sorry that we disagree, but I'm not trying to make people feel bad. I'm just candidly sharing my strongly-held opinions, which of course you are more than free to disagree with just as strongly as I disagree with yours.

All three official judges gave Adamek round 11, one of only two rounds that all three agreed on.

[crusader]

I thought that Adamek won the 11th and I watched the round without sound.

My final score was 116-113 Cunningham.

[Horse]

Adamek 115-114

[marcianofan]

All three official judges gave Adamek round 11, one of only two rounds that all three agreed on.

Well then much like the majority of the other rounds, I have no idea what they thought they saw.

Look maybe some people can't help but give the latter part of a round precedence over the earlier part. I guess I could see this as an extreme case of that. Can we all agree at least that Cunningham clearly won the first half of round 11? If that can't be common ground, then I think there's no point in continuing the discussion, because we're living in alternate universes.

[JCS]

All three official judges gave Adamek round 11, one of only two rounds that all three agreed on.

Well then much like the majority of the other rounds, I have no idea what they thought they saw.

Look maybe some people can't help but give the latter part of a round precedence over the earlier part. I guess I could see this as an extreme case of that. Can we all agree at least that Cunningham clearly won the first half of round 11? If that can't be common ground, then I think there's no point in continuing the discussion, because we're living in alternate universes.

Cunningham edged the first half of the round... JUST after the midpoint, Adamek landed a very nice right. This was the turning point for me... Cunningham felt that one and did a good job of pretending he wasn't fazed by it.

[marcianofan]

Cunningham edged the first half of the round... JUST after the midpoint, Adamek landed a very nice right. This was the turning point for me... Cunningham felt that one and did a good job of pretending he wasn't fazed by it.

Edged it??? He landed a ton of clean shots to open the round, and Adamek landed not one punch. Edged it!!! You see- it's hard for me to believe I'm dealing with a fair-minded person when roughly 10 clean punches to exactly zero is called "edging it."

It's been almost 2 weeks since I watched the round, so I could be a bit fuzzy. But to the best of my memory, there was a punch thrown by Adamek just after the midway point, which BJ Flores called a "nice right hand." My recollection is that the punch was thrown during a camera change, and that it was impossible to tell if it landed or not. Even if it did, it had no visible effect on Cunningham, and thus should be considered just another punch, at best.

[JCS]

Cunningham edged the first half of the round... JUST after the midpoint, Adamek landed a very nice right. This was the turning point for me... Cunningham felt that one and did a good job of pretending he wasn't fazed by it.

Edged it??? He landed a ton of clean shots to open the round, and Adamek landed not one punch. Edged it!!! You see- it's hard for me to believe I'm dealing with a fair-minded person when roughly 10 clean punches to exactly zero is called "edging it."

It's been almost 2 weeks since I watched the round, so I could be a bit fuzzy. But to the best of my memory, there was a punch thrown by Adamek just after the midway point, which BJ Flores called a "nice right hand." My recollection is that the punch was thrown during a camera change, and that it was impossible to tell if it landed or not. Even if it did, it had no visible effect on Cunningham, and thus should be considered just another punch, at best.

It's on Youtube, I just watched it before posting. Maybe "edged it" wasn't the appropriate way to sum it up. He won the first half, more because Adamek didn't do enough than it was Cunningham dominating it.

[marcianofan]

It's on Youtube, I just watched it before posting. Maybe "edged it" wasn't the appropriate way to sum it up. He won the first half, more because Adamek didn't do enough than it was Cunningham dominating it.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I do have to admit upon re-watching that Adamek did land 1 punch in the first half of the round- a decent body shot at about the 1:28 mark.

I was also mistaken about the camera change narrative. But I did find the punch you were referring to, and after watching it about 10 times in the last few minutes, I'm left with the same conviction I had when I watched it in real-time. It was a semi-slap, thrown mostly from the elbow, which glanced off Cunningham's forehead. Cunningham landed at least a dozen or more punches in the round more effective than that, in my opinion.

[JCS]

It's on Youtube, I just watched it before posting. Maybe "edged it" wasn't the appropriate way to sum it up. He won the first half, more because Adamek didn't do enough than it was Cunningham dominating it.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. I do have to admit upon re-watching that Adamek did land 1 punch in the first half of the round- a decent body shot at about the 1:28 mark.

I was also mistaken about the camera change narrative. But I did find the punch you were referring to, and after watching it about 10 times in the last few minutes, I'm left with the same conviction I had when I watched it in real-time. It was a semi-slap, thrown mostly from the elbow, which glanced off Cunningham's forehead. Cunningham landed at least a dozen or more punches in the round more effective than that, in my opinion.

We're beating a dead horse at this point, but the fact remains that you are one of the very few to score that round the way you did.

[marcianofan]

We're beating a dead horse at this point, but the fact remains that you are one of the very few to score that round the way you did.

I guess we are. I guess Datsue and I (and maybe Owl) will just have to find a way to live with that.