Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

orbtastic
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 12549
Joined: 05 Dec 2006, 11:22

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by orbtastic »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
orbtastic wrote:
dempseyfire wrote:The big difference btw the Latin little men and Asian little men is the big fights featuring the latter are practically never shown on American television.
Is that largely down to the lack of [in general terms] American opponents that make televising fights worthwhile or even possible?
It's due to geography more than anything else. They make good money fighting in Japan and Thailand that they couldn't get here. The logistics of traveling with your crew and the time zone differences just don't make fiscal sense to televise fighters that the majority of your viewers have never heard of.

Americans seldom care about lower weight fighters, my Uncle was talking to me on Christmas about Boxing in the 40's and he didn't know any of the Flyweights I brought up. When I grew up in the 80's they drew the line at Bantamweight as far as televised bouts.
Yeah sure, I totally get the point being made but historically there are very few American fighters below bantam, just because of genetics.

You have Viloria and Carbajal, for example, but they are both of non American extraction. I mean I can name guys who fought at lower weights - Jeff Chandler, for example, but they are fairly rare. If there were more "American" fighters at the really low weights, then there would be comp (and money/purses) worth travelling for.

Carbajal only fought one other american fighter of any note his whole career (without checking on boxrec) he was just fortunate that he had the Olympics win and guys like Gonzalez to build a rivalry with (I believe their first fight was the first million dollar fight at that low a poundage and the first PPV etc). I don't know the ins and outs of purses but I'd imagine Top Rank (think it was them?) had to dangle a reasonable carrot to get the Thai guy over for his first title shot. You have to have some sort of TV pull in order to do that, it's quite an usual situation, certainly for that poundage.

I always felt sorry for Ricardo Lopez, he was clearly a very talented fighter but suffered from weighing just over 100lbs and not really having any sort of pool of names to fight. You saw him time and time again tucked away down on DK undercards fighting for $50,000 while less talented fighters beat up cans and no marks for ten times as much. Only at the very end of his career did he manage to even top a card, then shortly after his career biggest win he was back to being tucked away on undercards again.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with anything being said, just trying to further expand my point about lack of American fighters below say, bantam. The same is generally true in Europe, it's just genetics.
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rover wrote:They televised his bout with Olivo; I have the ABC broadcast with Keith Jackson. He also fought Crawford in San Fran, and I have the broadcast of that, though I think it was either only televised locally, or it was closed circuit or PPV.
Perhaps it was local, there wasn't PPV in those days. I forgot about the Olivo fight, that's one fight in 15 or 20 years. My point remains.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote:They televised his bout with Olivo; I have the ABC broadcast with Keith Jackson. He also fought Crawford in San Fran, and I have the broadcast of that, though I think it was either only televised locally, or it was closed circuit or PPV.
Perhaps it was local, there wasn't PPV in those days. I forgot about the Olivo fight, that's one fight in 15 or 20 years. My point remains.
Wasn't Leonard/Kalule a PPV?
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote:They televised his bout with Olivo; I have the ABC broadcast with Keith Jackson. He also fought Crawford in San Fran, and I have the broadcast of that, though I think it was either only televised locally, or it was closed circuit or PPV.
Perhaps it was local, there wasn't PPV in those days. I forgot about the Olivo fight, that's one fight in 15 or 20 years. My point remains.
Wasn't Leonard/Kalule a PPV?
No, there was no PPV.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

Interesting. I'd never seen that card on anyone's list, but I saw it (the whole card) and purchased it, including an hour of prefight from someone who said he'd bought it for $9.95--a PPV.
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Nope, it was CCTV and the network replayed it the following week. There was barely cable then, no PPV outlets. Later in the 80's Kingvision came about, but it was a subscription channel. The funny thing about that was I could get a scrambled feed with sound on my UHF dial on my black and white. I listened to Gomez/Pintor & hearns/Benitez, Dokes/Weaver, Sanchez/Nelson and a few others.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Nope, it was CCTV and the network replayed it the following week. There was barely cable then, no PPV outlets. Later in the 80's Kingvision came about, but it was a subscription channel. The funny thing about that was I could get a scrambled feed with sound on my UHF dial on my black and white. I listened to Gomez/Pintor & hearns/Benitez, Dokes/Weaver, Sanchez/Nelson and a few others.
I know Kingvision was around in 82 with John Condon (?) as the announcer. Was Kingvision the one who broadcast Sanchez/Gomez with Sheridan on the call?
Guess CCTV charged money back then because this broadcast I got was commercial-free.
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Closed Circuit always charged money, but you couldn't watch it in your home. Whomever told you they did is wrong. I don't know where Gomez/Sanchez was televised, it took me almost a week to find out who won.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Closed Circuit always charged money, but you couldn't watch it in your home. Whomever told you they did is wrong. I don't know where Gomez/Sanchez was televised, it took me almost a week to find out who won.
Wow, times have changed. However it happened, I got a recording of that whole show. Thanks for all the info; enlightening.
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Closed Circuit always charged money, but you couldn't watch it in your home. Whomever told you they did is wrong. I don't know where Gomez/Sanchez was televised, it took me almost a week to find out who won.
Wow, times have changed. However it happened, I got a recording of that whole show. Thanks for all the info; enlightening.
There are recordings of all of those. It was a lot of fun, a couple thousand people watching the fights on a huge screen. Holmes/Weaver & Duran/palomino was another one I went to. My Dad sure would have loved to shell out $9.95 instead of leaving work early and driving in rush hour to take me to those fights.

The last one I went to was Tyson/Spinks.
meade95
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 439
Joined: 09 Mar 2005, 22:30

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by meade95 »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:Closed Circuit always charged money, but you couldn't watch it in your home. Whomever told you they did is wrong. I don't know where Gomez/Sanchez was televised, it took me almost a week to find out who won.
Wow, times have changed. However it happened, I got a recording of that whole show. Thanks for all the info; enlightening.
There are recordings of all of those. It was a lot of fun, a couple thousand people watching the fights on a huge screen. Holmes/Weaver & Duran/palomino was another one I went to. My Dad sure would have loved to shell out $9.95 instead of leaving work early and driving in rush hour to take me to those fights.

The last one I went to was Tyson/Spinks.
CCTV was a hell of a fun way to watch big fights. Last one I watched that way was back in Kalamazoo MI. At the DT State theatre. Holyfield Vs Bowe II (fan man fight). They had a CCTV option still going. I watched the Hagler Vs Hearns and Hearns Vs Duran on CCTV in Downtown Detroit, believe it was at Joe Louis arena. Great times. Great crowds......good pricing...
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

meade95 wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote: Wow, times have changed. However it happened, I got a recording of that whole show. Thanks for all the info; enlightening.
There are recordings of all of those. It was a lot of fun, a couple thousand people watching the fights on a huge screen. Holmes/Weaver & Duran/palomino was another one I went to. My Dad sure would have loved to shell out $9.95 instead of leaving work early and driving in rush hour to take me to those fights.

The last one I went to was Tyson/Spinks.
CCTV was a hell of a fun way to watch big fights. Last one I watched that way was back in Kalamazoo MI. At the DT State theatre. Holyfield Vs Bowe II (fan man fight). They had a CCTV option still going. I watched the Hagler Vs Hearns and Hearns Vs Duran on CCTV in Downtown Detroit, believe it was at Joe Louis arena. Great times. Great crowds......good pricing...
I saw Hearns/Duran at the baltimore Arena. They were my two favorite fighters and I remember arguing with guys behind me after the preview showed Hearns predicting a second round knockout that if anyone got stopped it would be Tommy. Awe inspiring performance from a man who never gets his due.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

Don't they still have CCTV at some locations?
I know Holy/Bowe II was a PPV because our family bought it for (I think) $24.95 (those were the days).
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

They do them in Vegas to appease the fans that can't get a ticket. Holyfield/Bowe ! was a PPV.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They do them in Vegas to appease the fans that can't get a ticket. Holyfield/Bowe ! was a PPV.
Wasn't that part of the TVKO Fight of the Month series? I think the first one we bought was Holyfield/Foreman. Cambrell Marshall hosted it, and Len Berman did blow-by-blow.
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They do them in Vegas to appease the fans that can't get a ticket. Holyfield/Bowe ! was a PPV.
Wasn't that part of the TVKO Fight of the Month series? I think the first one we bought was Holyfield/Foreman. Cambrell Marshall hosted it, and Len Berman did blow-by-blow.
Yeah, that's PPV! All the Holyfield/Bowe fights were on it.
Rover
Light Heavyweight
Posts: 7323
Joined: 20 Aug 2011, 00:28

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Rover »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:They do them in Vegas to appease the fans that can't get a ticket. Holyfield/Bowe ! was a PPV.
Wasn't that part of the TVKO Fight of the Month series? I think the first one we bought was Holyfield/Foreman. Cambrell Marshall hosted it, and Len Berman did blow-by-blow.
Yeah, that's PPV! All the Holyfield/Bowe fights were on it.
When did PPV begin?
elmersalsa
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 15690
Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by elmersalsa »

Interesting topic. Even though, many of those oriental fighters fought most of the time in their own countries.

Here is my top 5:

Manny Pacquiao (Philippines)
Fighting Harada (Japan)
Pancho Villa (Philippines)
Khosai Galaxy (Thailand)
Flash Elorde (Philippines)
Seamus
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 17070
Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by Seamus »

Revised List

1.Manny Pacquiao
2.Khaosai Galaxy
3.Pancho Villa
4.Fighting Harada
5.Chris John
6.Hiroyuki Ebihara
7.Little Dado
8.Jung Koo Chang
9.Ceferino Garcia
10.Masao Ohba
SaadOffTheDeck
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 19602
Joined: 04 Jun 2009, 07:38

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Rover wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Rover wrote: Wasn't that part of the TVKO Fight of the Month series? I think the first one we bought was Holyfield/Foreman. Cambrell Marshall hosted it, and Len Berman did blow-by-blow.
Yeah, that's PPV! All the Holyfield/Bowe fights were on it.
When did PPV begin?
Late 80's, early 90's. I don't recall an exact fight but it's when they stopped running big fights during the week.
dajuggernaut
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 441
Joined: 22 Jul 2006, 22:43

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by dajuggernaut »

Diamond WEAPON wrote:Pacquiao passed by Villa awhile ago, and he's easily above Galaxy now as well.
You'll never hear him say that today. :lol:
dajuggernaut
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 441
Joined: 22 Jul 2006, 22:43

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by dajuggernaut »

Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.
I think he should be in the #1 spot already. He's held World Titles in 5 weight classes, none of the others have even come close to doing that. Sure a couple dominated 1 weight class for years or had success in two, but could you imagine Elorde jumping up to LW and fighting and beating Roberto Duran the way Pacquiao did Barrera and Morales (yeah, both were past prime, but not to an extreme degree) or even all the way to David Diaz, Elorde would've gotten killed. To me for Elorde to have matched what Pacquiao has done, he would've had to have moved up and fought close with the likes of Duran and other top 135-147 lbers.

How about Khaosai Galaxy? Would he have been able to jump from 115 to 130-135 and fight Julio Cesar Chavez? He'd have been annihilated too. How about just to 122 to fight Daniel Zaragoza or Tracy Harris Patterson? Both would've smashed him.

Pancho Villa was a great fighter but he had too short of a career to truly put himself over Pacquiao, who not only had a world title at 112, but is now a titleist at 135 after having a pretty long career thus far and is about to fight De la Hoya at 147. I kinda doubt Villa would've ever been calling out Tony Canzoneri.

Now Fighting Harada comes close as he was a Champ at Flyweight and Bantamweight and very nearly one at Featherweight, but even still, the strength of opposition that Pacquiao has faced from 112, to 122, to 126, to 130, to 135 is very impressive, especially in that his losses have been so infrequent.

And yes, in a way it helps Pacquiao's case that he's always been a huge weight drainer and thus was able to carry his abilities through so many weight classes since he was naturally much heavier than each's limit beforehan, but that's simply another element of modern boxing and still few have managed to go up so many weight classes with such success, weight draining or not, such as De La Hoya, Mayweather, Jones, and Toney. What matters most in comparioson's between fighters of disparate eras is the relative strength of opposition and relative achievements in light of such opposition, and when it comes to both Filipino and Southeast Asian fighters in general I believe it's only logical to conclude that Pacquiao is second to none. In a sense he's what Chavez was to Mexico, someone who's fighting capabilities could transcend weight classes with excellence.
Oh I'm saving this one.
thunderfromdownunder
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 1789
Joined: 15 May 2005, 06:55

Re: Top 5 Asian Fighters Of All Time

Post by thunderfromdownunder »

dajuggernaut wrote:
Diamond WEAPON wrote:
Seamus wrote:Would everyone agree that a clearcut win for Pac-Man over DeLaHoya would put him into the number 1 spot.
I think he should be in the #1 spot already. He's held World Titles in 5 weight classes, none of the others have even come close to doing that. Sure a couple dominated 1 weight class for years or had success in two, but could you imagine Elorde jumping up to LW and fighting and beating Roberto Duran the way Pacquiao did Barrera and Morales (yeah, both were past prime, but not to an extreme degree) or even all the way to David Diaz, Elorde would've gotten killed. To me for Elorde to have matched what Pacquiao has done, he would've had to have moved up and fought close with the likes of Duran and other top 135-147 lbers.

How about Khaosai Galaxy? Would he have been able to jump from 115 to 130-135 and fight Julio Cesar Chavez? He'd have been annihilated too. How about just to 122 to fight Daniel Zaragoza or Tracy Harris Patterson? Both would've smashed him.

Pancho Villa was a great fighter but he had too short of a career to truly put himself over Pacquiao, who not only had a world title at 112, but is now a titleist at 135 after having a pretty long career thus far and is about to fight De la Hoya at 147. I kinda doubt Villa would've ever been calling out Tony Canzoneri.

Now Fighting Harada comes close as he was a Champ at Flyweight and Bantamweight and very nearly one at Featherweight, but even still, the strength of opposition that Pacquiao has faced from 112, to 122, to 126, to 130, to 135 is very impressive, especially in that his losses have been so infrequent.

And yes, in a way it helps Pacquiao's case that he's always been a huge weight drainer and thus was able to carry his abilities through so many weight classes since he was naturally much heavier than each's limit beforehan, but that's simply another element of modern boxing and still few have managed to go up so many weight classes with such success, weight draining or not, such as De La Hoya, Mayweather, Jones, and Toney. What matters most in comparioson's between fighters of disparate eras is the relative strength of opposition and relative achievements in light of such opposition, and when it comes to both Filipino and Southeast Asian fighters in general I believe it's only logical to conclude that Pacquiao is second to none. In a sense he's what Chavez was to Mexico, someone who's fighting capabilities could transcend weight classes with excellence.
Oh I'm saving this one.
:lol:
Post Reply