Out of the 90's which heavyweight came in on top?

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 05 Oct 2005, 09:21

Out of the 90's which heavyweight came in on top?

Which was the greatest?

There was Lewis,Bowe,Tyson and Holyfield.

Holyfield IMO, beat all 3 of them so I have to give it to him.

barry · Post by **barry** » 05 Oct 2005, 09:23

Holyfield following closely behind is Lewis.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 05 Oct 2005, 09:48

lewis.he beat holy(should have been twice)briggs,mercer,tucker,mccall,bruno and the dangerous razor ruddock.
i think his list is the most impressive.closely followed by holyfield who by going 1-1 with moorer and 1-2 with bowe just loses out.bowes list is not impressive imo.tyson was better in the 80's.

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 05 Oct 2005, 10:17

Has to be between Holy and Lewis. Holy just gets the nod for me. He crushed the myth of Tyson. He possibly beat Lewis in the rematch and had 1 win against Bowe. There's not much in it.

Bowe only fought Holyfield so I can't really pick him and Tyson lost to them quite easily.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2005, 12:53

Holyfield easy call for me. I base this only on what actually happened, if you want to play what if's you could go all day long with that. But given the facts and the work all the fighters turned in during that decade I think it's definitive.

He ducked no one and during that time scored wins over everyone he fought. And he was pretty active. He showed that rare quality of being able to keep his confidence up in adversity and find a way to impose his will. He was never out of any fight and always competitive even in those bouts he lost.

How can you make a case for anyone else? If you were going to make a case for Lewis I think you have to adjust the clock to straddle the decade.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 05 Oct 2005, 14:04

well its not tyson because he was past his prime.

- its not bowe cause other than winning his trilogy with holy, he did nothing and ducked lennox.

but lets not jump to conclusions and say it was holyfield hands down.

remember holyfield lost to riddick bowe TWICE, michael moorer, and lost to lennox lewis.

i would say its lennox, he dominated the 90s outide of his loss to mccail which he avenged. he also beat holyfield, and IMO won both matches.
lennox was ducked from bowe, and tyson wouldnt fight lennox. lennox dominated pretty everyone put in front of him, outside of mccail fight, which he avenged. lennox held the title a longer period of time than holy

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2005, 14:19

I need to check the timelines here like I said if you adjust timelines a bit you can transition over to Lewis. But for what actually took place from 90 to 00 I still lean to Holyfield.

It's a bit different question than who was better. Also for what little it is worth (which is very little) Holyfield had the media and seemed the more accepted champion. (A very US view I'm sure) I'm basing this on memory, so now I have to go to the records at this point.

Hey this is getting to be like work.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 05 Oct 2005, 14:32

Lewis is the outstanding heavyweight of the 90's.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2005, 14:41

Well there you have it, Syntax has settled this hash. We move on now.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 05 Oct 2005, 15:41

BoxBuzz wrote:Well there you have it, Syntax has settled this hash. We move on now.

Thankyou!!!

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 05 Oct 2005, 15:52

Certainly.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 05 Oct 2005, 17:30

Without a doubt it is Holyfield -

He fought and beat everyone (even an "old" Holyfield beat Lennox in their second fight....that was a make-up call on the first fight).

Another simple fact is he fought everyone - He is the common denominator of the 90's (and he fought these guys when they were at their primes).

A prime Holyfield cleary beats Lennox (having younger legs would have clearly allowed him to pressure Lennox more then he was able to in 97,98 resulting in Holyfield either stopping him (likely) or winning a Dec) - Lennox's size would always cause Holy some problems....but a prime (youthful) Holy would simply and clearly outwork Lennox (and he'd be willing to take a risk which Lennox never is).

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 05 Oct 2005, 17:48

Holyfield lost more often than Lewis and it certainly is not clear if he fought better competition. Lewis beat Donovan Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrisson, etc.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 06 Oct 2005, 05:01

yeah the lewis knockers just can't give credit where it is due.holyfield lost too many to be the man of the 90's.the second fight was closer with lewis,but he still lost.the first fight was so one sided it was almost a shutout.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 06 Oct 2005, 07:28

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Holyfield lost more often than Lewis and it certainly is not clear if he fought better competition. Lewis beat Donovan Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Frank Bruno, Ray Mercer, Tommy Morrisson, etc.

Holyfield was just inconsistant with his heart problems and all.

I think while at his top he was better.

dalek · Post by **dalek** » 06 Oct 2005, 08:02

hehe.what a load of crock that heart problem excuse was.the man was not as good or dominant as lennox.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Oct 2005, 10:43

He got the better decision over Mercer, beat Tyson twice who owned a win over Bruno who owned a win over McCall who owned a win over Lewis.

Lennox was more active during the same period. Looking at the record doesn't look like anyone was acting dishonerably ducking anyone. And they both fought some of the best fights available. Just on the data alone you might pick Lewis. But at the time everyone thought that beating Mike twice was superhuman though that doesnt look as impressive in retrospect.

I think you have to go with the knowledge at the time which has me picking Evander, but the case for Lewis is every bit as strong. I tend to go with the "history fame heart" but just on the data I'm seeing a clear case for Lewis.

You know it's honestly a fair call either way.

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 06 Oct 2005, 12:15

Holyfield did have some good wins but his inconsistancy hurts him a bit when comparing him with more consistent fighters. Lewis did not fight Mike Tyson in the 1990s but he did fight many other top heavyweights like Bruno, McCall, Morrison, Tucker and Holyfield.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 06 Oct 2005, 20:52

You could make strong arguements for Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis. Tyson would be 4th, Moorer and Mercer after that.

Holy did only go 1-2 against Bowe and 0-1-1 against Lewis. hoever, it should be pointed out that Holyfield should have gotten the decision in the 2nd fight with Lewis. Not that Holyfield was great, but Lewis didn't do much but throw his pitty patty jab all night. People seem to forget that Holyfield was 36 years old before the first Lewis fight.

All 3 had bad performances against lesser opponents. Holyfield lost to Moorer (although he avenged it easily) Lewis lost to McCall (which he avenged). Bowe was lucky to win by disqualification against Golota twice.
Bowe beat him 2 out of three when Holyfield was in his prime. So you could argue that Bowe should rank higher, but Bowe didn't have any other major wins.
Of course Bowe and Lewis never fought, but most people seem to think the whole throwing the belt in the trash can meant that Bowe was ducking Lewis.
One fight that alot of people seem to forget is the Mercer-Lewis fight. Lewis didn't deserve the decision. If he hadn't gotten it, his reputation would be worse than it's now. Mercer gave Holyfield a tough fight, but Holyfield won convincingly.
I have thought about this weighty issue a lot ove rthe years and have Holyfield #1, Bowe # 2 and Lewis #3. But that is really splitting hairs.
It's hard to say. But to think that one of the 3 was way better than the other two is silly.

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 06 Oct 2005, 21:00

Hmm well if you want to rate them as boxers that is one discussion, If we are discussing who had the dominating career during the 90's it is another.

I don't think Bowe fits in the latter conversation as well.

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 07 Oct 2005, 13:53

Well, the orginal post was about which of the 90's heavweights came out on top. I guess that could be interpreted differently.
Unlike some other era's no one particular heavyweight dominated the 90's. What I'm trying to say is that it's a close call with Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis. You could argue for one of the three as who comes out on top, but the other two have to be right behind him.
Most people seem to pick Holyfield or Lewis, often claiming that one of them dominated, which isn't accurrate.
The biggest reasons that I that I feel many don't include include Bowe and that I do are :
1. He did beat Holyfield 2 out of 3 and that has to count for a lot. Many people seem to almost disregard this.
2. I don't put much stock in the whole "belt in the garbage can stunt", which apparently some people do. I'm going by what happened in the ring.

The Great John L · Post by **The Great John L** » 07 Oct 2005, 14:02

Ambling Alp wrote:Well, the orginal post was about which of the 90's heavweights came out on top. I guess that could be interpreted differently.
Unlike some other era's no one particular heavyweight dominated the 90's. What I'm trying to say is that it's a close call with Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis. You could argue for one of the three as who comes out on top, but the other two have to be right behind him.
Most people seem to pick Holyfield or Lewis, often claiming that one of them dominated, which isn't accurrate.
The biggest reasons that I that I feel many don't include include Bowe and that I do are :
1. He did beat Holyfield 2 out of 3 and that has to count for a lot. Many people seem to almost disregard this.
2. I don't put much stock in the whole "belt in the garbage can stunt", which apparently some people do. I'm going by what happened in the ring.

I think people disregard Bowe beating Holyfield 2 out of 3 is because Bowe didn't accomplish anything else in his career. Just look at his record and try to find any legitimate top 10 HW's besides Holy on his record. Then look at the fighters that Holy and Lewis fought and it's pretty obvious why almost no one is including Bowe with Holy and Lewis.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 07 Oct 2005, 16:17

Ambling Alp wrote: Holyfield lost to Moorer (although he avenged it easily) Lewis lost to McCall (which he avenged). Bowe was lucky to win by disqualification against Golota twice.

Quick side point with regard to the above - Actually Holy never really lost to Moorer in that a scoring mixup is what caused the Dec loss to Moorer -

The judge (I think it was Roth but I could be wrong) he accidently scored the 2nd round incorrectly (and has said this since...and did the next morning after the fight)

But by giving the 2nd round to Holy 10-9 (when he meant for it to be 10-8....as the other two judges had it scored ...since Holyfield scored a clear and counted knockdown).

Had this judge scored the round a 10-8 (not the accidental 10-9) the fight would have been a majority draw -

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 07 Oct 2005, 16:24

Ambling Alp wrote:Well, the orginal post was about which of the 90's heavweights came out on top. I guess that could be interpreted differently.
Unlike some other era's no one particular heavyweight dominated the 90's. What I'm trying to say is that it's a close call with Holyfield, Bowe and Lewis. You could argue for one of the three as who comes out on top, but the other two have to be right behind him.
Most people seem to pick Holyfield or Lewis, often claiming that one of them dominated, which isn't accurrate.
The biggest reasons that I that I feel many don't include include Bowe and that I do are :
1. He did beat Holyfield 2 out of 3 and that has to count for a lot. Many people seem to almost disregard this.
2. I don't put much stock in the whole "belt in the garbage can stunt", which apparently some people do. I'm going by what happened in the ring.

Another point with regard to Bowe (whom I agree if he would have fought more often and stayed in shape would be right up there with Holy & Lewis)...But in the third fight between Holyfield and Bowe....Holyfield had Hepatitus-B/C which caused him to be terribly exhusted so quickly (hell he knocked Bowe almost out and then didn't throw another punch the rest of the round).

The fight was almost postponed (but it was going up against another big fight...I think it was Tyson Vs?? Seldon? or McNeely) - and the Promoter and both Bowe's and Holyfield's managment teams were concerned about how it would look and that it would only increase Tyson's worth and hurt both of their future earnings (if it looked like they dropped out because of poor TV-buys) - Which in turn wasn't a concern as Bowe Vs Holy out grossed the Tyson fight -

Nevertheless the third Holy Vs Bowe fight was somewhat lacking as neither man looked at their best or that sharp (plus...big plus...Holyfield had Hepatitus B/C (forget which).

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 07 Oct 2005, 16:54

Right. Many cite that Holyfield often had excuses for losses but come on . . that fight is a CLEAR example of a fighter not being healthy. Much more bizarre then Klitschko-Brewster. Holyfield just fell apart . . .and he still gave a helluva performance and almost knocked Bowe out. I don't regard as Bowe having shown he was the better man by their 3 fights. If anything the rubber match showed to me that if healthy Evander would've knocked Riddick out.

Out of the 90's which heavyweight came in on top?

Out of the 90's which heavyweight came in on top?

re

Lewis competition

Re: Lewis competition

Lennox Lewis