Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace

[jj5000]

Has anyone here seen this exhibition from 1987 in Miami ?

[Esquire]

Never saw it happen and I'm not sure it ever came to pass.

I've sparred many boxing rounds against jerk-offs like myself and I have a long history of martial arts training of all types (judo, Bjj and kick boxing were my interests) and I'm here to tell you that Hearns would have killed Wallace in a ten round fight if it mattered.

The difference between a world class boxer and an older legendary kick boxer (movie star) like Wallace would come down to training. In striking sports, like this would be, the world class boxer like Hearns (and a freak of nature to boot) would have way too much ability to fight hard over the distance. Striking sports require a special mindset and Hearns proved against Hagler, Leonard and others that he had what it took to dish out punishment without wilting under the physical demands required. He would have destroyed Wallace in such a fight if it mattered. Martial artists are trained to land the killing blow and are not conditioned to fight in a life or death scenario if such a blow failed to do the job. Hearns would have landed every jab that he threw and probably every right cross he would throw. No way Wallace could survive that.

There's always the chance that Wallace could knock out Hearns with a kick to the head but I doubt it would even be a possibility. Wallace would be fighting for his life from the income punches that would come in combination after combination.

No contest. Hearns by knockout rather quickly.

[polecateddy]

Never saw it happen and I'm not sure it ever came to pass.

I've sparred many boxing rounds against jerk-offs like myself and I have a long history of martial arts training of all types (judo, Bjj and kick boxing were my interests) and I'm here to tell you that Hearns would have killed Wallace in a ten round fight if it mattered.

The difference between a world class boxer and an older legendary kick boxer (movie star) like Wallace would come down to training. In striking sports, like this would be, the world class boxer like Hearns (and a freak of nature to boot) would have way too much ability to fight hard over the distance. Striking sports require a special mindset and Hearns proved against Hagler, Leonard and others that he had what it took to dish out punishment without wilting under the physical demands required. He would have destroyed Wallace in such a fight if it mattered. Martial artists are trained to land the killing blow and are not conditioned to fight in a life or death scenario if such a blow failed to do the job. Hearns would have landed every jab that he threw and probably every right cross he would throw. No way Wallace could survive that.

There's always the chance that Wallace could knock out Hearns with a kick to the head but I doubt it would even be a possibility. Wallace would be fighting for his life from the income punches that would come in combination after combination.

No contest. Hearns by knockout rather quickly.

Yeah, I agree. I mean Frans Botha really showed those K1 guys ...oh no he didn't! Lol

[Brutu]

I had asked about that exhibition here a few years ago too.
In a thread of a youtube video of Muhammad Ali sparring with Thomas Hearns in 1981.

BTW Are you the one who posted this at youtube earlier this year?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxrvTEmQiuY

[jj5000]

No, I didn't post on youtube. I am just interested in this match.I read that both guys got stiffed by the promoter-bounced checks.

[Brutu]

Have you tried contacting the promoter of it directly?
If anyone would have a film or video of it,it would be him.

I came across one of his companies address's on line.

John Pachivas ll
287 Ne 118 Terrace
Miami Florida
33160

PS If by any chance John Pachivas ll does send you a video copy of the exhibition,
and you forward it to that dude requesting it on youtube.
Please send me 76 dollars of the 100 dollar finders fee.
thank you

[AngryGoon38]

Hearns DID wilt against Hagler. He busted his hand in the 1st round. Hearns had a tendency to get overzelous trying to kill his opponents,some more so than others. I think he'd get overzelous with Wallace and it would likely backfire.Wallace had a very strong defensive guard,great stamina and that one kick of his was absolutely killer brutal brutality personified.
Bill Wallace would bust up Hearns's shins,thighs,knees and ribcage with his supersonic superfoot kicks.

Ever see that one muay tai fighter(Danny something?) from the early 2000's that used to bust up his opponents shins ?
Then he'd leap up and throw a double front kick in midair while celebrating. Wallace was very big boned. He had great resiliance. Tough as nails tough. I see Wallace beating up Hearns and ref stopping the fight in the early part of round 2 in an MMA fight hypo scenario. That would be the fairest fight imo,being that Hearns is pure fisticuffs and wallace is mostly a footman. Wallace's strength size and toughness and precision brutalkicks would prevail imo.

[Rover]

Hearns DID wilt against Hagler. He busted his hand in the 1st round. Hearns had a tendency to get overzelous trying to kill his opponents,some more so than others. I think he'd get overzelous with Wallace and it would likely backfire.Wallace had a very strong defensive guard,great stamina and that one kick of his was absolutely killer brutal brutality personified.
Bill Wallace would bust up Hearns's shins,thighs,knees and ribcage with his supersonic superfoot kicks.

Ever see that one muay tai fighter(Danny something?) from the early 2000's that used to bust up his opponents shins ?
Then he'd leap up and throw a double front kick in midair while celebrating. Wallace was very big boned. He had great resiliance. Tough as nails tough. I see Wallace beating up Hearns and ref stopping the fight in the early part of round 2 in an MMA fight hypo scenario. That would be the fairest fight imo,being that Hearns is pure fisticuffs and wallace is mostly a footman. Wallace's strength size and toughness and precision brutalkicks would prevail imo.

Danny Steele?

[Bricks]

Never saw it happen and I'm not sure it ever came to pass.

I've sparred many boxing rounds against jerk-offs like myself and I have a long history of martial arts training of all types (judo, Bjj and kick boxing were my interests) and I'm here to tell you that Hearns would have killed Wallace in a ten round fight if it mattered.

The difference between a world class boxer and an older legendary kick boxer (movie star) like Wallace would come down to training. In striking sports, like this would be, the world class boxer like Hearns (and a freak of nature to boot) would have way too much ability to fight hard over the distance. Striking sports require a special mindset and Hearns proved against Hagler, Leonard and others that he had what it took to dish out punishment without wilting under the physical demands required. He would have destroyed Wallace in such a fight if it mattered. Martial artists are trained to land the killing blow and are not conditioned to fight in a life or death scenario if such a blow failed to do the job. Hearns would have landed every jab that he threw and probably every right cross he would throw. No way Wallace could survive that.

There's always the chance that Wallace could knock out Hearns with a kick to the head but I doubt it would even be a possibility. Wallace would be fighting for his life from the income punches that would come in combination after combination.

No contest. Hearns by knockout rather quickly.

Wallace, Gene Lebell, Bob Wall....these kind of kungfools never proved anything in a real fight in my mind. and the UFC came 15 years too late for them. But 93-95 was an incredible time in world martial arts history. It was the era of bloodsport and street fighter 2 coming to life, with martial artists against other style martial artist, boxer v sumo wrestler, kickboxer v judoka. History shows that these kind of "Kungfools" who spoke of death touches and dim maks were proven to be phoneys. But nonetheless a guy like ron van clief who was a martial arts master and actor did step in at 52 its just a shame he wasnt put in with another striker.

Hearns of 87 v Wallace of any of these guys??? none of these guys had trained to take a punch and Hearns of 87 was blisteringly fast and a murderous puncher who could take Wallaces best kick in the face and fight back . But it wouldnt come to that Hearns wouldnt have to take any kicks 2-3 punches from hearns and its a kayo

[jj5000]

Gene Lebell was/is the real deal. A master grappler.

[SamWise72]

Wallace's SIZE??? He's 5'10! And in 1987 he was 42 years old. Hearns would be taller, heavier (he was 173 for Andries in 87), and 29 years old. A peak for peak fight would have been interesting, but that year, it's absolutely going to be Hearns.

[Bricks]

Gene Lebell was/is the real deal. A master grappler.

I find him a very unpleasent old man. The way he talks about in a "real fight" he would take someones eyes out. The moment u hear these idiot bullshido kung fool masters say something like that u know they are phoneys.....and how much training would it take to quote "take someones eyes out" very unpleasent.

he lives off stories like he schooled bruce lee and steven segal.

End of the day there have been olympic gold medalists judokas and also just very good american national level judoka's like the guy Ken shamrock beat up in ufc 3 who actually enterered the early UFC's/Pride andi think they did far better than le bell would have done in his prime.

[Expug]

I think Lebells routine probbably came from his pro wrestling career. All the talk about rippin peoples eyes out and burning houses down. He's probably clowning around. He was national Judo champ in 54 and 55. They allowed foreign judoka in the tourny at that time. He beat a great Judoka in Jonny Osako both years. I've never met Gene though so I don't know what he's like. Gene was also one of the first early Martial Artists to preach cross training different styles. I guess he had one of the early MMA fights in the early 1960s when he choked out pro boxer Milo Savage in a "mixed match". Although,Savage wore a gi top which gave Gene an advantage for sure.

[Alan Partridge]

Gene Lebell was/is the real deal. A master grappler.

I find him a very unpleasent old man. The way he talks about in a "real fight" he would take someones eyes out. The moment u hear these idiot bullshido kung fool masters say something like that u know they are phoneys.....and how much training would it take to quote "take someones eyes out" very unpleasent.

he lives off stories like he schooled bruce lee and steven segal.

End of the day there have been olympic gold medalists judokas and also just very good american national level judoka's like the guy Ken shamrock beat up in ufc 3 who actually enterered the early UFC's/Pride andi think they did far better than le bell would have done in his prime.

Listen if Gene wanted to take your eyes out... he would! He was a different level from me or you!

As for Hearns vs Wallace... I go for Wallace... First of all Wallace was IMO the bigger stronger man, & also he'd keep the fight at distance where Hearns couldn't land with power, & eventually BW would stop Hearns.

[HomicideHenry]

Gene Lebell was/is the real deal. A master grappler.

I find him a very unpleasent old man. The way he talks about in a "real fight" he would take someones eyes out. The moment u hear these idiot bullshido kung fool masters say something like that u know they are phoneys.....and how much training would it take to quote "take someones eyes out" very unpleasent.

he lives off stories like he schooled bruce lee and steven segal.

End of the day there have been olympic gold medalists judokas and also just very good american national level judoka's like the guy Ken shamrock beat up in ufc 3 who actually enterered the early UFC's/Pride andi think they did far better than le bell would have done in his prime.

Gene LeBell is a legitimate fighter. The man was the American Judo champion and was in that period of time when "stretchers" were a constant in professional wrestling, brought in to keep talent in line via very painful holds, etc. Show some respect the man was a innovator of mixed martial arts and (IMHO, eff Bruce Lee) was the Father of Martial Arts. And where the eff you get LeBell as a 'king fu' master? The only man who spouted that horseshit was David Carradine.

[SamWise72]

Wallace was IMO the bigger stronger man

I don't understand why you're saying this. There's no "opinion" about it, Tommy is 3 inches taller, and in 87 would have been nearly ten pounds heavier than Wallace's prime fighting weight. Sure, Wallace was probably heavier by then, but not in an advantageous way.

[Bricks]

Gene Lebell was/is the real deal. A master grappler.

I find him a very unpleasent old man. The way he talks about in a "real fight" he would take someones eyes out. The moment u hear these idiot bullshido kung fool masters say something like that u know they are phoneys.....and how much training would it take to quote "take someones eyes out" very unpleasent.

he lives off stories like he schooled bruce lee and steven segal.

End of the day there have been olympic gold medalists judokas and also just very good american national level judoka's like the guy Ken shamrock beat up in ufc 3 who actually enterered the early UFC's/Pride andi think they did far better than le bell would have done in his prime.

Listen if Gene wanted to take your eyes out... he would! He was a different level from me or you!

As for Hearns vs Wallace... I go for Wallace... First of all Wallace was IMO the bigger stronger man, & also he'd keep the fight at distance where Hearns couldn't land with power, & eventually BW would stop Hearns.

He may be a different level to u and I and a great national level judoka in the states back in the 50s but what would taking anyones eyes out prove?......his martial arts skill?

The problem I have with LeBell is , he was a perfectly competent and respected martial artist in his time (50s and 60s and at a stretch first half of the 70s) but he has continuously carried on talking in magazines like he is still someone to be feared by everyone hence all this talk of schooling Steven Segal and 90s magazine articles (which i have) calling himself the ultimate grappler. The Gracies got sick of it and invited Le Bell to enter the early UFC's.

As for your comment about Wallace handling hearns LOL you really lost all credibility there! LMAO Hearns was a freak of nature light years away from a air punching and kicking bullshido artist like Wallace. Absolute light years away and it would be a 30 second brutal kayo.

[Bricks]

@ homicide Henry......Ive shown Lebell plenty of respect. But you seem to get carried away at his self styled bullshido martial arts death touch image.

LeBell was a very good judo man in his time and hes been a great stunt man and fight choreographer ever since. His problem is he carried on flapping his gums long after his time had passed about how he would beat so and so, and he was deadly serious about the "taking the eyes out " comment i have the issue of MA Illustrated magazine from 95 when it was printed.It was a joint interview with benny urquidez who was a great and legendary kickboxer. The contrast in interviews with the jet and lebell was stark. Lebell was still talking like he was the best grappler in the world. If he was, why would he need to take someones eyes out?

[Nile4000]

@ homicide Henry......Ive shown Lebell plenty of respect. But you seem to get carried away at his self styled bullshido martial arts death touch image.

LeBell was a very good judo man in his time and hes been a great stunt man and fight choreographer ever since. His problem is he carried on flapping his gums long after his time had passed about how he would beat so and so, and he was deadly serious about the "taking the eyes out " comment i have the issue of MA Illustrated magazine from 95 when it was printed.It was a joint interview with benny urquidez who was a great and legendary kickboxer. The contrast in interviews with the jet and lebell was stark. Lebell was still talking like he was the best grappler in the world. If he was, why would he need to take someones eyes out?

He probably should have calmed down, but I give Gene respect for helping Bruce Lee, and, mostly, giving a cocky Steven Seagall dirty drawls.

[HomicideHenry]

@ homicide Henry......Ive shown Lebell plenty of respect. But you seem to get carried away at his self styled bullshido martial arts death touch image.

LeBell was a very good judo man in his time and hes been a great stunt man and fight choreographer ever since. His problem is he carried on flapping his gums long after his time had passed about how he would beat so and so, and he was deadly serious about the "taking the eyes out " comment i have the issue of MA Illustrated magazine from 95 when it was printed.It was a joint interview with benny urquidez who was a great and legendary kickboxer. The contrast in interviews with the jet and lebell was stark. Lebell was still talking like he was the best grappler in the world. If he was, why would he need to take someones eyes out?

I think LeBell, in reference to the 'eye gouge' comment, is a throw back to his fight with Savage. Savage tried to bite LeBell's fingers off, and LeBell told him "Milo if you don't stop biting my fingers I am going to rip your eyeballs out" and Savage stopped, and LeBell of course got the choke hold on him. As far as eye gouging in general, it wouldnt take much, anyone can do it. I believe it is less than 5 pounds of pressure to make someone's eye turn into jelly. Mind you in Abraham Lincoln's time it was a well known practice for men who engaged in duels to be practiced in eye gouging, same as fish hooking and certain forms of grappling (collar and elbow style was most famous in Lincoln's time).

There is something people need to understand, however, about mma and true martial arts. Even Bruce Lee (who I think is overated but will show respect) said competitive matches as a sport was a world of difference from true self defense in a real life scenario where the variables are endless. Gene, though a Judo man, was a well versed submission wrestler to boot and his comments allude to true martial arts rather than competition in a sporting arena. Take a guy like Stu Hart, the famed wrestler, who was a legit submission wrestler though he was a performance artist, he had the capability of making someone's blood vessels in their eyeballs burst with a choke hold. If Stu got ahold of you, in a real life scenario it was over even at the age of 80. Same deal with Dan Hodge who was performing his famous sleeper hold into his 80s. It is legit, but I dont think Hodge, LeBell or Hart meant that they were still "dangerous" in a competitive sports sense. They were referring to a real life scenario.

[AngryGoon38]

Hearns DID wilt against Hagler. He busted his hand in the 1st round. Hearns had a tendency to get overzelous trying to kill his opponents,some more so than others. I think he'd get overzelous with Wallace and it would likely backfire.Wallace had a very strong defensive guard,great stamina and that one kick of his was absolutely killer brutal brutality personified.
Bill Wallace would bust up Hearns's shins,thighs,knees and ribcage with his supersonic superfoot kicks.

Ever see that one muay tai fighter(Danny something?) from the early 2000's that used to bust up his opponents shins ?
Then he'd leap up and throw a double front kick in midair while celebrating. Wallace was very big boned. He had great resiliance. Tough as nails tough. I see Wallace beating up Hearns and ref stopping the fight in the early part of round 2 in an MMA fight hypo scenario. That would be the fairest fight imo,being that Hearns is pure fisticuffs and wallace is mostly a footman. Wallace's strength size and toughness and precision brutalkicks would prevail imo.

Danny Steele?

Yup. Thats the guy. Thanks Man ! 8)

Even that Former SanShou fighter (Now actor) "Cung Lee" would put a serious hurting on Hearns in an MMA fight contest scenario. I saw him recently in the flick "Fighting". Dude's still a Total BadAss.

[AngryGoon38]

Never saw it happen and I'm not sure it ever came to pass.

I've sparred many boxing rounds against jerk-offs like myself and I have a long history of martial arts training of all types (judo, Bjj and kick boxing were my interests) and I'm here to tell you that Hearns would have killed Wallace in a ten round fight if it mattered.

The difference between a world class boxer and an older legendary kick boxer (movie star) like Wallace would come down to training. In striking sports, like this would be, the world class boxer like Hearns (and a freak of nature to boot) would have way too much ability to fight hard over the distance. Striking sports require a special mindset and Hearns proved against Hagler, Leonard and others that he had what it took to dish out punishment without wilting under the physical demands required. He would have destroyed Wallace in such a fight if it mattered. Martial artists are trained to land the killing blow and are not conditioned to fight in a life or death scenario if such a blow failed to do the job. Hearns would have landed every jab that he threw and probably every right cross he would throw. No way Wallace could survive that.

There's always the chance that Wallace could knock out Hearns with a kick to the head but I doubt it would even be a possibility. Wallace would be fighting for his life from the income punches that would come in combination after combination.

No contest. Hearns by knockout rather quickly.

Wallace, Gene Lebell, Bob Wall....these kind of kungfools never proved anything in a real fight in my mind. and the UFC came 15 years too late for them. But 93-95 was an incredible time in world martial arts history. It was the era of bloodsport and street fighter 2 coming to life, with martial artists against other style martial artist, boxer v sumo wrestler, kickboxer v judoka. History shows that these kind of "Kungfools" who spoke of death touches and dim maks were proven to be phoneys. But nonetheless a guy like ron van clief who was a martial arts master and actor did step in at 52 its just a shame he wasnt put in with another striker.

Hearns of 87 v Wallace of any of these guys??? none of these guys had trained to take a punch and Hearns of 87 was blisteringly fast and a murderous puncher who could take Wallaces best kick in the face and fight back . But it wouldnt come to that Hearns wouldnt have to take any kicks 2-3 punches from hearns and its a kayo

In a Boxing Match,yeah,Hearns,likely by ref stoppage but not likely by brutal ktfo ko as you imply. Wallace was better than conditioned to take punches,he was conditioned to take Kicks,Ill intentioned kicks in various areas,including the skull area and face area. Ever see Wallace back in the day ? Only 5-10 yeah,but a Huge, tough,and powerfull 5-10.
He is a naturally much bigger boned combatant than Hearns so only in Boxing does Hearns prevail by some sort of Tko by a panicked Boxing ref. Or maybe he knocks him down 3 times,Wallace gets up each and everytime unfazed and ready to fight some more but ref waves it off because of that notoriously lame 3 kd rule that boxing doesnt want to part ways with.

In a MMA scenario,I think it would very likely go something like...
Hearns comes out in his stalking the prey going for the immediate KO punch,tries sticking his left arm in BW's face
ala Hearns-Cuevas. Wallace knows not to punch/Go toe to toe with Hearns,even limited Boxers like The Feather fisted Randy Shields,and Doug "PunchDrunk" DeWitt avoided getting,as you say,Brutally Ko'd by Hearns.
Wallace would know what Hearns is going to try to do beforehand,ala-Couture-Mercer. And yeah,Couture was just as past it as Mercer at that time.

Prime vs prime MMA scenario,After Hearns tries sticking his left hand in Wallace's face to set up the booming right hand,Wallace brushes away the Left hand and then blocks Hearns's Straight right. If Hearns even gets a chance to throw it that is. Assuming he does,and even if it connects i really dont see BW going down or getting hurt much by it.He would grab hold of Hearns and submit him,with or without even needing to use his Kicks. If BW connects with a kick to lets say the ribs area as a counter attack,i can only see Hearns being pretty much done right then and there.

Dont get me wrong,I wish Hearns and Hagler had re-matched and firmly believe Hearns if he had chosen to,could've outboxed Hagler fairly easily. Hearns,Great Boxer that could've done quite a bit more in his chosen combatant sport of boxing. Wallace knew to become a kickboxer. I think he would've made a considerably better transition to MMA than Hearns. Hearns held his hands low for a reason,he hated being hit hard to the body. Like i said,a considerably smaller bone structure than BW. Bone structure=Equals Natural Size and True core Size/physicality of an athlete,fight combatant or regular person on the street. Wrist size is the most profound indication. Hearns had much smaller wrists than Wallace,and a much skinnier neck as well. Sharp kick to the ribs or takedown,then submission,or a combination in that order and its Wallace pretty much 90% of the time.

[Bricks]

@ homicide henry. lol thats far too much talk of eye gouging. To me its just something so brutal and disgusting that for a true "martial artist" to talk about it something is wrong. Surely there is a level humans should not sink to.

As for Le Bell and Stu Hart, yep as a experienced judo guy myself I certainly know about what "old man strength" feels like . I annoyed one of my first judo teachers in a fitness first a few years ago as i kept playfully pestering him to show me a particular choke. I was in my early 30s and very strong physically and the other guy was 72 and still training and barely 10 stones but the standing cross arm choke he put on me was horrific!

As far as the street goes, standing judo works great but in my experience there is only the luxury of putting a choke on, in a one on one situation and you dont get many of those these days. As good as they were if Hart or Le Bell were putting on a choke on someone in a street fight there is a possibility the other guys mates who may be inside a shop unaware of what is going on, may suddenly rush out and kick the old man in the back of the head and than stomp him into dementia and mental retardation. 5 on one mob handed.

[Bricks]

@ angry goon. That may be one of the most ridiculous posts i have ever read!!!!!

You really think wallace compares to randy couture!?? and FYI Ray mercer did not fight Randy couture. Mercer was busy at the age of 50 scoring a brutal knockout of tim sylvia a former ufc champ around that time.

How the hell u can even compare Wallace to Dewitt or Shields is mind boggling. THose 2 were experienced boxers with many amateur and pro fights at a high level under their belt. Wallace was a kicking martial artist who dabbled in things called semi contact and full contact fencing contests where there were not many kicks taken before one of them folded like accordion.

Also Dewitt and Shields may have gone the distance with Hearns but better men like Shuler, Cueves and Roldan were put out like a light so whats your point!

Its a brutal early ko by Hearns just accept it

[SamWise72]

I think it's hilarious that anyone thinks Wallace will shrug off the punch that left Duran face down and not moving. You're living in a dream world if you think anyone in kickboxing delivers head kicks that are as hard as Hearns' right. Any boxer that takes on a match where groundwork is allowed is asking for trouble, but put them in a proper ring and make it kickboxing (Hearns would, of course, not kick) and Superfoot is going down, and going down hard and early.