Arturo Gatti

[Rover]

I can promise you that you'll never read Alp say Ali's wins over the "ancient" Liston were useless.

Do you happen to know who granberry was? He was referenced in that crazy thread.

[The End]

I can promise you that you'll never read Alp say Ali's wins over the "ancient" Liston were useless.

Do you happen to know who granberry was? He was referenced in that crazy thread.

That is a foul curseword.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I can promise you that you'll never read Alp say Ali's wins over the "ancient" Liston were useless.

Do you happen to know who granberry was? He was referenced in that crazy thread.

Just an Ali hater. I didn't open that thread.

[Argentino]

What do you think about Gatti Vs Maidana at Junior WW?
We're just imagining a couple of fights, no need to be rude or play to be badass while you're at home

[Rover]

What do you think about Gatti Vs Maidana at Junior WW?
We're just imagining a couple of fights, no need to be rude or play to be badass while you're at home

Maidana.

[gilgamesh]

Since this whole thread turned out to be basically "All these guys would've kicked Gatti's ass" , let me at least end it with a heartfelt. I Love ya Arturo, I wrote a tribute to you in the Ring magazine following your untimely death.

Gatti would've kicked Raul Balbi's ass...ya know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he beats Julien Lorcy too :)

[Bobbyptsd]

Since this whole thread turned out to be basically "All these guys would've kicked Gatti's ass" , let me at least end it with a heartfelt. I Love ya Arturo, I wrote a tribute to you in the Ring magazine following your untimely death.

Gatti would've kicked Raul Balbi's ass...ya know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he beats Julien Lorcy too :)

It does seem to be trending more towards "Gatti wasn't even a top fighter, after all." Which is odd, because usually the opposite happens, especially after an early death.

I mean, he lost to truly elite and very good fighters at his best, and he was never a dominant champion. But he beat some very good fighters, and could beat a lot of belt holders, like the one you mentioned, among others.

[Rover]

Since this whole thread turned out to be basically "All these guys would've kicked Gatti's ass" , let me at least end it with a heartfelt. I Love ya Arturo, I wrote a tribute to you in the Ring magazine following your untimely death.

Gatti would've kicked Raul Balbi's ass...ya know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he beats Julien Lorcy too :)

It does seem to be trending more towards "Gatti wasn't even a top fighter, after all." Which is odd, because usually the opposite happens, especially after an early death.

I mean, he lost to truly elite and very good fighters at his best, and he was never a dominant champion. But he beat some very good fighters, and could beat a lot of belt holders, like the one you mentioned, among others.

Prime Gatti lost decisively to Ivan Robinson twice and Manfredy. That's excluding DLH and Floyd. His best win above super feather (which he left in 97) was probably Ward (the two wins). WBC B.S. allowed him to get a belt at jr. welter by beating Branco; Tszyu was named "champion emeritus" or some such nonsense.
I thought Balbi beat Dorin the first time, and I'd give him a good chance to beat Gatti--the Gatti who lost to Robinson and Manfredy decisively.

[Bobbyptsd]

Since this whole thread turned out to be basically "All these guys would've kicked Gatti's ass" , let me at least end it with a heartfelt. I Love ya Arturo, I wrote a tribute to you in the Ring magazine following your untimely death.

Gatti would've kicked Raul Balbi's ass...ya know what, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he beats Julien Lorcy too :)

It does seem to be trending more towards "Gatti wasn't even a top fighter, after all." Which is odd, because usually the opposite happens, especially after an early death.

I mean, he lost to truly elite and very good fighters at his best, and he was never a dominant champion. But he beat some very good fighters, and could beat a lot of belt holders, like the one you mentioned, among others.

Prime Gatti lost decisively to Ivan Robinson twice and Manfredy. That's excluding DLH and Floyd. His best win above super feather (which he left in 97) was probably Ward (the two wins). WBC B.S. allowed him to get a belt at jr. welter by beating Branco; Tszyu was named "champion emeritus" or some such nonsense.
I thought Balbi beat Dorin the first time, and I'd give him a good chance to beat Gatti--the Gatti who lost to Robinson and Manfredy decisively.

I mentioned that he lost to some very good fighters, I was thinking specifically of Robinson, I'd honestly forgotten he lost to Manfredy.

I'm not trying to argue that he was an ATG, it's just that he was a very good, dangerous fighter at his best, and people now seem to almost want to classify him as a club fighter, he was better than that. I think he would have demolished Balbi. Maybe not in the same way he did Dorin, but still.

[Rover]

He demolished Dorin at jr. welter. He may well have done that to Balbi at jr. welter, too. I don't think that would've happened at lightweight, and we'll never know. But I'd put Dorin on the level of Robinson and Manfredy, and those two certainly didn't get demolished by Gatti at lightweight.
I also don't think Gatti would've done that to Gamache at lightweight--the Gamache who gave Lopez a very tough fight. I don't think he'd have done it to Leija, either.
Gatti was a world class fighter, but I'd call him a B fighter and would've confidently picked Holiday, Bazan and Johnston to beat him at lightweight.

[Bobbyptsd]

He demolished Dorin at jr. welter. He may well have done that to Balbi at jr. welter, too. I don't think that would've happened at lightweight, and we'll never know. But I'd put Dorin on the level of Robinson and Manfredy, and those two certainly didn't get demolished by Gatti at lightweight.
I also don't think Gatti would've done that to Gamache at lightweight--the Gamache who gave Lopez a very tough fight. I don't think he'd have done it to Leija, either.
Gatti was a world class fighter, but I'd call him a B fighter and would've confidently picked Holiday, Bazan and Johnston to beat him at lightweight.

That's not fair, Johnston was great at his best.

You may well be right about the others (especially Holiday), and I certainly have no objection about calling him world class at a lower level, that was basically my point. But some people are talking about him like he wasn't.

[Rover]

He demolished Dorin at jr. welter. He may well have done that to Balbi at jr. welter, too. I don't think that would've happened at lightweight, and we'll never know. But I'd put Dorin on the level of Robinson and Manfredy, and those two certainly didn't get demolished by Gatti at lightweight.
I also don't think Gatti would've done that to Gamache at lightweight--the Gamache who gave Lopez a very tough fight. I don't think he'd have done it to Leija, either.
Gatti was a world class fighter, but I'd call him a B fighter and would've confidently picked Holiday, Bazan and Johnston to beat him at lightweight.

That's not fair, Johnston was great at his best.

You may well be right about the others (especially Holiday), and I certainly have no objection about calling him world class at a lower level, that was basically my point. But some people are talking about him like he wasn't.

I'd put Bazan on Johnston's level. I thought Bazan won close but clear in the first fight, and Johnston did the same in the rematch. I know that some (Kellerman, for instance) thought Johnston dominated the rematch; I didn't, and Kellerman has brought up that fight many times as an example of reasonable scoring diversity. (I think I had it 7-5 or 7-4-1 Johnston).

[Bobbyptsd]

He demolished Dorin at jr. welter. He may well have done that to Balbi at jr. welter, too. I don't think that would've happened at lightweight, and we'll never know. But I'd put Dorin on the level of Robinson and Manfredy, and those two certainly didn't get demolished by Gatti at lightweight.
I also don't think Gatti would've done that to Gamache at lightweight--the Gamache who gave Lopez a very tough fight. I don't think he'd have done it to Leija, either.
Gatti was a world class fighter, but I'd call him a B fighter and would've confidently picked Holiday, Bazan and Johnston to beat him at lightweight.

That's not fair, Johnston was great at his best.

You may well be right about the others (especially Holiday), and I certainly have no objection about calling him world class at a lower level, that was basically my point. But some people are talking about him like he wasn't.

I'd put Bazan on Johnston's level. I thought Bazan won close but clear in the first fight, and Johnston did the same in the rematch. I know that some (Kellerman, for instance) thought Johnston dominated the rematch; I didn't, and Kellerman has brought up that fight many times as an example of reasonable scoring diversity. (I think I had it 7-5 or 7-4-1 Johnston).

I remember thinking he won, but can't remember how I scored it, seems like forever ago now.

[gilgamesh]

Gatti's main problem during his Lightweight run was he completely forgot that he could box and just tried to brawl with everybody he fought. At 140 once he started working with Buddy McGirt he started boxing more. When I was matching him with Balbi and Lorcy, I was doing so with the 140 pound boxing and moving Gatti in mind...I agree the way he brawled against Manfredy and Robinson he left himself open to being beaten by much lesser fighters just because he was fighting a foolish fight most of the time. I'm not suggesting Manfredy or Robinson are lesser fighters necessarily, but I don't think he would've been thrashed the way he was if he'd boxed them instead of brawled against them. I think using his skill and movement, he'd have stood a great chance of beating Robinson the 1st time around, as it was a close fight on the scorecards anyway.

[Rover]

Gatti's main problem during his Lightweight run was he completely forgot that he could box and just tried to brawl with everybody he fought. At 140 once he started working with Buddy McGirt he started boxing more. When I was matching him with Balbi and Lorcy, I was doing so with the 140 pound boxing and moving Gatti in mind...I agree the way he brawled against Manfredy and Robinson he left himself open to being beaten by much lesser fighters just because he was fighting a foolish fight most of the time. I'm not suggesting Manfredy or Robinson are lesser fighters necessarily, but I don't think he would've been thrashed the way he was if he'd boxed them instead of brawled against them. I think using his skill and movement, he'd have stood a great chance of beating Robinson the 1st time around, as it was a close fight on the scorecards anyway.

The only fairly good wins at jr. welter Gatti had were the Ward fights. Ward was an Antonio Diaz-level fighter (well, actually below that). He went life-and-death with Reggie Greene and Emanuel Burton, and he was bested easily when he jumped in with the big dogs (Phillips, Judah).
The other guys Gatti beat at jr. welter (Leija, Gamache, Dorin, Branco) were all light punchers, and the first three certainly weren't at their best weight. (I think Gatti's best was at super feather.)
I evaluate lightweight fights involving Gatti based on what he did and how he fought as a lightweight. It's easier to look good against fighters who aren't true jr. welters.

[giacomino]

Rover, I know this is off topic, but I also thought Balbi clearly beat Dorin the first fight but the US broadcasters seem to be rooting for Dorin (I guess they were hyping the potential Spadafora matchup) At LW, he and Gatti would have been a fun fight. Balbi's shock absorbers seem to go out once he took time off and then rose to 140. Gatti would have KO'd him at 140

[Rover]

Rover, I know this is off topic, but I also thought Balbi clearly beat Dorin the first fight but the US broadcasters seem to be rooting for Dorin (I guess they were hyping the potential Spadafora matchup) At LW, he and Gatti would have been a fun fight. Balbi's shock absorbers seem to go out once he took time off and then rose to 140. Gatti would have KO'd him at 140

We've gotta stop agreeing so much.
:)

[gilgamesh]

I thought Balbi deserved the first fight with Dorin as well, but it was pretty close. I agree with Emanuel Steward's comment at the end of the bout that "It was close enough if I were in either corner, I wouldn't complain"...definitely the fact that Balbi was unmarked while Dorin was carved up like a Thanksgiving turkey didn't help with the impression that he deserved it.