If Hatton had just defended his title against mandatories...

[thepocketrocket]

Instead of going in with the likes of Mayweather and Pacman at their peak, and then gone on to beating shot or fading fighters at the end of his career, would he get as much respect as Calzaghe?

[JLP]

Instead of going in with the likes of Mayweather and Pacman at their peak, and then gone on to beating shot or fading fighters at the end of his career, would he get as much respect as Calzaghe?

I respect Ricky as much as I respect Calzaghe but however he'd have played his career cards, I'd never have him down as being equal to, or better than, Joe as a boxer.

[thepocketrocket]

Instead of going in with the likes of Mayweather and Pacman at their peak, and then gone on to beating shot or fading fighters at the end of his career, would he get as much respect as Calzaghe?

I respect Ricky as much as I respect Calzaghe but however he'd have played his career cards, I'd never have him down as being equal to, or better than, Joe as a boxer.

But JLP...we have seen Hatton on his backside....Joe never travelled to face a peak Hopkins and Jones due to his 'fear of flying'. Now this gives the Calzaghe lickers a chance to say "Oh, he would have beaten them I think"

If Hatton had refused to fight the best and stayed in his own back yard, Hatton fanatics could make those arguments regarding PBF and Pac

[Newport Daz]

I have the greatest respect for Ricky's career. He dared to be great but was found wanting at the absolute elite level. Nothing wrong with that. He went as far as his talent would allow him, as good as Joe was, he can't say the same thing.

[Parson Cross]

I think his bank balance says he did the right thing.

[thepocketrocket]

I think his bank balance says he did the right thing.

Good for Joe, but looking at the long term trajectory of the sport, this may not be the attitude we want our fighters to take.

Give me the best fighting the best any day of the week

[JLP]

Instead of going in with the likes of Mayweather and Pacman at their peak, and then gone on to beating shot or fading fighters at the end of his career, would he get as much respect as Calzaghe?

I respect Ricky as much as I respect Calzaghe but however he'd have played his career cards, I'd never have him down as being equal to, or better than, Joe as a boxer.

But JLP...we have seen Hatton on his backside....Joe never travelled to face a peak Hopkins and Jones due to his 'fear of flying'. Now this gives the Calzaghe lickers a chance to say "Oh, he would have beaten them I think"

If Hatton had refused to fight the best and stayed in his own back yard, Hatton fanatics could make those arguments regarding PBF and Pac

I'm not bothered what fanatics think, mate.

[Parson Cross]

Sorry mate - I meant that Ricky did the right thing according to his bank balance.
Aside from "legacies" etc had Ricky just carried on the Manchester meal train no doubt he'd have made a wedge - but nothing compared to the wedge he made by taking on the elite.
I don't think it's fair to compare the two.
Each have their qualities - and I suppose their frailties as far as boxing purists go.
Ricky - not quite good enough for the elite, Joe - we will never know ?
One thig is for sure Ricky made far more money.

[fasteddie]

I have the greatest respect for Ricky's career. He dared to be great but was found wanting at the absolute elite level. Nothing wrong with that. He went as far as his talent would allow him, as good as Joe was, he can't say the same thing.

joe didnt even fight the best in britain at their peak either,he fought a less than best eubank and fought a robin reid in a fight i thought reid won and didnt give him a rematch but gave mario veit a remacth after stopping him in 7 rounds then 4 rounds or the other way round. ricky did fight the best at his peak but take away floyd and pacman and would you say he fought the best in his division? i would say no,cotto was there as was zab judah both would of gave ricky a hard time,he beat tszyu who had been out of action for close to a year with a bad back and suddenly he was the best 140lber in the world? he was struggling against carlos mousar before he knocked him out got beat by collazo but got the decision and struggled against urango,beat an old lightweight in castillo and called out the best fighter on the planet. ricky was a good fighter and took a chance can joe say the same?? id say no,joe was a better boxer but ricky wasnt scared to jump in with the big boys.

[thepocketrocket]

Sorry mate - I meant that Ricky did the right thing according to his bank balance.
Aside from "legacies" etc had Ricky just carried on the Manchester meal train no doubt he'd have made a wedge - but nothing compared to the wedge he made by taking on the elite.
I don't think it's fair to compare the two.
Each have their qualities - and I suppose their frailties as far as boxing purists go.
Ricky - not quite good enough for the elite, Joe - we will never know ?
One thig is for sure Ricky made far more money.

My bad mate, mis-read it

[rhino222]

wbu mandatories?... jesus, most of his opponents could not have been worse if he tried in all honesty. and he fought pacman when pacman was past his best. ill give him a peak mayweather..but thats all.

[Parson Cross]

The issue of Pacman's status when he fought Hatton is up for debate but I don't think he was past his best.
Hatton did step up to the plate at that level when the opponents were worthy and failed - but became rich.
In Joe's case I don't think you can't say that.
Not sure why in honesty - did Joe really have a travel phobia and a regular bout of nose bleeds when leaving Wales ?
Maybe it was just good Management / Promotion.
I have a great deal of respect for both these guys but I guess in Joe's case I would really have loved him to go into an elite 50/50 fight and prove to everyone just how good he was.

[thepocketrocket]

No Rhino, the mandatories after he beat KT (Instead of leaving Warren because he didn't want to be tied to Showtime when the big names were HBO) He could have easily stayed and creamed that title (Which Warren expected him to do, hence why he paid so much for the KT fight to come here)

To say Pacman was past it when he fought Hatton is actually amusing when you consider his career post Hatton.

According to Warren (though you have to be cautious considering their break up) Joe never really believed he was that good and had no intention of fighting the best...hence his unwillingness to fight Johnson. Joe only realised he was top notch apparently when he smashed Lacy (a fight he wanted out of)

Still, beating up a guy who was struggling with Omar Sheika is hardly late peak Jones or Hopkins. The job he did on Kessler however stands out as being a career defining night

[dewipowell]

I have the greatest respect for Ricky's career. He dared to be great but was found wanting at the absolute elite level. Nothing wrong with that. He went as far as his talent would allow him, as good as Joe was, he can't say the same thing.

joe didnt even fight the best in britain at their peak either,he fought a less than best eubank and fought a robin reid in a fight i thought reid won and didnt give him a rematch but gave mario veit a remacth after stopping him in 7 rounds then 4 rounds or the other way round. ricky did fight the best at his peak but take away floyd and pacman and would you say he fought the best in his division? i would say no,cotto was there as was zab judah both would of gave ricky a hard time,he beat tszyu who had been out of action for close to a year with a bad back and suddenly he was the best 140lber in the world? he was struggling against carlos mousar before he knocked him out got beat by collazo but got the decision and struggled against urango,beat an old lightweight in castillo and called out the best fighter on the planet. ricky was a good fighter and took a chance can joe say the same?? id say no,joe was a better boxer but ricky wasnt scared to jump in with the big boys.

That's because after their first fight Veit spent four years winning and became mandatory, Universum won the purse bids and it was in Germany - it wasn't a rematch Calzaghe chose to have.

[greenyox3]

I have the greatest respect for Ricky's career. He dared to be great but was found wanting at the absolute elite level. Nothing wrong with that. He went as far as his talent would allow him, as good as Joe was, he can't say the same thing.

joe didnt even fight the best in britain at their peak either,he fought a less than best eubank and fought a robin reid in a fight i thought reid won and didnt give him a rematch but gave mario veit a remacth after stopping him in 7 rounds then 4 rounds or the other way round. ricky did fight the best at his peak but take away floyd and pacman and would you say he fought the best in his division? i would say no,cotto was there as was zab judah both would of gave ricky a hard time,he beat tszyu who had been out of action for close to a year with a bad back and suddenly he was the best 140lber in the world? he was struggling against carlos mousar before he knocked him out got beat by collazo but got the decision and struggled against urango,beat an old lightweight in castillo and called out the best fighter on the planet. ricky was a good fighter and took a chance can joe say the same?? id say no,joe was a better boxer but ricky wasnt scared to jump in with the big boys.

Tszyu had beaten the crap out of Sharmba Mitchell (who was considered #1 contender) six months prior to the Hatton fight, and was the undisputed 140lb world champion. So when Hatton beat him, he took that title.

I think it's fair to say he never quite repeated the form he showed that night against Tszyu. But no-one can say he didn't take on all legit challengers at 140lb after that (some might say Witter, but I don't know anyone who'd pay to watch him fight). He had a good reign as champion, but fell just short at elite level.

[JLP]

Whilst Tszyu was clearly past his best when he fought Hatton, he wasn't too far gone. It was far and away Ricky's career best performance. A very strong effort.

[fasteddie]

I have the greatest respect for Ricky's career. He dared to be great but was found wanting at the absolute elite level. Nothing wrong with that. He went as far as his talent would allow him, as good as Joe was, he can't say the same thing.

joe didnt even fight the best in britain at their peak either,he fought a less than best eubank and fought a robin reid in a fight i thought reid won and didnt give him a rematch but gave mario veit a remacth after stopping him in 7 rounds then 4 rounds or the other way round. ricky did fight the best at his peak but take away floyd and pacman and would you say he fought the best in his division? i would say no,cotto was there as was zab judah both would of gave ricky a hard time,he beat tszyu who had been out of action for close to a year with a bad back and suddenly he was the best 140lber in the world? he was struggling against carlos mousar before he knocked him out got beat by collazo but got the decision and struggled against urango,beat an old lightweight in castillo and called out the best fighter on the planet. ricky was a good fighter and took a chance can joe say the same?? id say no,joe was a better boxer but ricky wasnt scared to jump in with the big boys.

Tszyu had beaten the crap out of Sharmba Mitchell (who was considered #1 contender) six months prior to the Hatton fight, and was the undisputed 140lb world champion. So when Hatton beat him, he took that title.
so you dont believe cotto was a top contender for ricky to fight but castillo was?

I think it's fair to say he never quite repeated the form he showed that night against Tszyu. But no-one can say he didn't take on all legit challengers at 140lb after that (some might say Witter, but I don't know anyone who'd pay to watch him fight). He had a good reign as champion, but fell just short at elite level.

[mullenman]

There are stars
Then there are superstars
And then there are megastars ( M Buffer, 2006)

Ricky is a superstar that tried to be a megastar.
if he won his two fights he lost in the MGM he would of been the best Britain of all time(no question)
But didn’t and had a wonderful career

Joe also had a wonderful career but avoided the big boys the other side of the pond in his career
And I have a tiny bit of suspicion he was afraid of the cobra as well near the end of his career

Two great careers but for me Ricky’s journey was a little more special

[stujones]

Your doing Mario Veit a disservice - Joe beat him in the first round of their first fight.

[ALI]

Instead of going in with the likes of Mayweather and Pacman at their peak, and then gone on to beating shot or fading fighters at the end of his career, would he get as much respect as Calzaghe?

I respect Hatton more than Calzaghe, the same as i do Froch. Calzaghe may have had more talent, but he opted not to put it all all the line and for that will never be regarded above either in my book.

Better fighter, probably, but his career was so stagnant i cringe just thinking about his long drawn out 'reign at the top'.

[Bricks]

One of the best threads i have seen on here in a long long time.

Hatton to me went out in a blaze of glory. I give him more credit for losing to pacman and mayweather at their absolute peak and taking on sechenko after so many years out than i do his winning and defending his WBU title early on under the promotion of yknow who. The body of work he ammassed before than says he was a very good fighter one of the best britain has had but just not top 5 pound 4 pound best. No shame there and he made a packet.

Calzaghe is a strange one. The first third of his high level career (1997-2001) was a major disapointment. Not going to the USA, losing in my mind a narrow one to reid and not giving him a rematch, the pull outs , the fights that stunk out the joint, the obnoxious low key profile. The next phase 2002-2005, had 2 decent wins in brewer and mitchell but still disapointing. The last phase 2006-2009 was glorious and this tends to be the one people remember even tho to some of us he lost the hopkins fight, and jones jnr was a 0.50 fighter. But this last phase showed me Joe had the capability to have beaten hopkins and Jones in their prime but not saying he would have.

[thepocketrocket]

One of the best threads i have seen on here in a long long time.

Hatton to me went out in a blaze of glory. I give him more credit for losing to pacman and mayweather at their absolute peak and taking on sechenko after so many years out than i do his winning and defending his WBU title early on under the promotion of yknow who. The body of work he ammassed before than says he was a very good fighter one of the best britain has had but just not top 5 pound 4 pound best. No shame there and he made a packet.

Calzaghe is a strange one. The first third of his high level career (1997-2001) was a major disapointment. Not going to the USA, losing in my mind a narrow one to reid and not giving him a rematch, the pull outs , the fights that stunk out the joint, the obnoxious low key profile. The next phase 2002-2005, had 2 decent wins in brewer and mitchell but still disapointing. The last phase 2006-2009 was glorious and this tends to be the one people remember even tho to some of us he lost the hopkins fight, and jones jnr was a 0.50 fighter. But this last phase showed me Joe had the capability to have beaten hopkins and Jones in their prime but not saying he would have.

Cheers matey...

[hitman_hatton1]

to say calzaghe avoided fights is not true.

he didn't do his all to seek em out is a valid criticism.

he was loyal to FW cos he got him a title and paydays.

but he should have been more ruthless when his career started stalling.

in saying that he'll be a 1st ballot hall of famer next year.

[Finn]

to say calzaghe avoided fights is not true.

he didn't do his all to seek em out is a valid criticism.

he was loyal to FW cos he got him a title and paydays.

but he should have been more ruthless when his career started stalling.

in saying that he'll be a 1st ballot hall of famer next year.

Well to be fair he tried to fight a prime hopkins but hopkins pulled out the day of the signing, that could have defined Calzaghes career. You still have to look at the manner he beat people. he completely humiliated Lacy, well beat Eubank (all be it past his prime), outclassed Kessler, and beat hopkins who then went on the beat pavlik and pascal albeit hopkins completely spoiled cheated and had cortez helping him out.

Ottke wouldnt get in the ring with calzaghe and RJJ clearly said he wasnt interested all risk no gain from his point of view and i can see his point. Beyer would have probably been the other option. Other than that there werent alot of people for calzaghe to fight.

[rhino222]

No Rhino, To say Pacman was past it when he fought Hatton is actually amusing when you consider his career post Hatton.

I still disagree, would like you to justify to me when pacman got any better than he was in 2006-2009 when he stopped MAb and Morales twice!!

since hatton there are decent results, but against fighters passed their best, perhaps cotto being the exception to the rule.