The Dark Destroyer wrote:It's the second half where he really showed what he was capable of, Kessler was more than in the fight till Calzaghe turned it up. I remember post fight Kessler said his speed was ridiculous.
Yep it was a testament to just how well calzaghe could adapt his style in the ring, Kessler was giving him a good run for his money until calzaghe changed his game and kessler just couldnt work him out, he became a better boxer after his hand injuries did calzaghe i think he would have been an absolute beast if he could still punch like he used to against Eubank, imagine what he would have done to lacy. It was a great fight some proper toe to toe exchanges.
The kessler in that fight would give ward a test for sure, unfortunately poor management and injuries took the edge off him he's just too flat footed these days and the that extra bit speed he had has dropped off.
orbtastic wrote:Just chiming in on the admiration, you watch those ABA finals and you realise just how much better he was than his peers. He beat some very good guys that were good pros later on.
Yep, so true, and people forget (apart from Coco!) how much his hand injuries plagued him and forced him to adapt later on his career - he was genuinely heavy-handed back in the day. He'd have undoubtedly stopped more fighters conclusively at world level if his hands had held up better.
Great memory on the 8th round by the way CP. I'm positive I remember a post-fight interview with Kessler where he admitted that body shot nearly dropped him and took a lot out of him for the rest of the fight. Didn't the ref stop Calzaghe from following up?
Lol thanks for that! I think only one guy in his 3 aba reigns went the distance, he blasted out all the usual suspects who normally went the distance early in his career, ask Mark Delaney how hard he it when he was British champion.
To adapt at top level when he lost his punch was an incredible feat. I think I speak for everyone when I say how I wish he was let of the leash(or let himself off the leash) at his peak.
Still to outbox a past it RJJ in the way he did was a hell off a job, watch the vid again, he prob ruined RJJ as much as he did lacy.
The Dark Destroyer wrote:It's the second half where he really showed what he was capable of, Kessler was more than in the fight till Calzaghe turned it up. I remember post fight Kessler said his speed was ridiculous.
The kessler in that fight would give ward a test for sure, unfortunately poor management and injuries took the edge off him he's just too flat footed these days and the that extra bit speed he had has dropped off.
Agreed.
Kessler's balance is not what it was & for such a big strong lad he's alarmingly vulnerable looking at times. The Kessler of the Calzaghe fight might've made Ward a lot more uncomfortable; don't think he'd've beat him but he'd give him more of a run for his money.
orbtastic wrote:Just chiming in on the admiration, you watch those ABA finals and you realise just how much better he was than his peers. He beat some very good guys that were good pros later on.
Yep, so true, and people forget (apart from Coco!) how much his hand injuries plagued him and forced him to adapt later on his career - he was genuinely heavy-handed back in the day. He'd have undoubtedly stopped more fighters conclusively at world level if his hands had held up better.
Great memory on the 8th round by the way CP. I'm positive I remember a post-fight interview with Kessler where he admitted that body shot nearly dropped him and took a lot out of him for the rest of the fight. Didn't the ref stop Calzaghe from following up?
I am a Kessler fan, really was impressed with him coming through and for a few fights post Calzaghe. However, his lack of changing a game plan would have seen him come unstuck against Ward.
It was apparent in the fights with Joe, Froch and Ward - Kessler cannot adapt - he thinks of a plan pre fight and cannot adapt mid fight.
I believe Ward is a fighter we will be talking about for several years to come.
just to try and stress the genius of Joe's right to the body in the 8th, he had actually done a kind of trial run of the shot in the previous round
in the 7th, Joe pokes his head towards Kessler's torso, the move that got him clattered by the uppercut several times, but when Kessler throws the uppercut Joe slips it and throws a double body shot, a counter left slappy thing and then a right, but he doesn't quite get the timing right, the left isn't fully-leveraged, and Kessler is moving into the right hand a little bit thus taking away from its impact, so neither punch lands with conclusive force
the adaptation Joe makes in the 8th round when he makes the same move is that he slips his head to the other side and he counters earlier, and leads with the counter right to the body and not the left. because the punch impacts literally a split-second after the uppercut Joe has drawn from Kessler misses his head, Kessler is squared up completely, completely exposing his solar plexus, and because Joe changed the angle slightly, he's in the perfect position for the right hand to sink into the solar plexus.
the true indication of Joe's genius there (i know, i gots manlove) is that he turned a tactic which was working against him and in Kessler's favour in the earlier rounds, where every time he does that stupid pokey thing with his head he nearly gets it knocked off with the uppercut, and instead anticipates Kessler's counter and turns it against him.
if i was really drinking the kool aid on Joe, i would say I have never seen a fighter with conspicuously better stamina, and I'm not sure i have ever seen a fighter who was conspicuously more adaptable. there are fighters who match him on either score, sure, but I'm pretty sure i've never seen anyone I would say was superior in those regards.
Last edited by Counter-puncher on 10 Jan 2013, 13:47, edited 1 time in total.
stujones wrote:- Kessler cannot adapt - he thinks of a plan pre fight and cannot adapt mid fight.
.
i believe part of his problem was simply his deficit of athleticism in relation to Joe, the rhythmn Joe was boxing to was asking (say) 3 or 4 microquestions of Kesler each second, and with Kessler's flat slow-ish feet and inferior handspeed, (along with what you can clearly see as a split-second lag in response-time, as Kessler tries to compute each feint and movemement and punch) simply did not allow him to come up with responses, much of the time
i believe that factor along with Kessler's being hurt to the body was a big part of Kessler's low workrate in the late rounds.
oh, also, in terms of Joe's adaptability, he was a total genius to be able to adapt his style to the hand problems and his paranoia about hurting them again (especially, in my opinion, since the fight against Evans Ashira)
the 2 168 unification fights were calzaghe at his most fast and fluid. something that you don't see in the andre ward fights which are about holding, head butting and smothering your own work (at a very high level of success, admittedly). they were worth the wait. the downside is that he was so effective, that they weren't the great battles that the occasion seemed to demand.
i don't know if calzaghe would have been great at 175. in the 2 175 fights, he looked kind of soft, and his power wasn't great. and he seemed vulnerable.
joe was obviously very fit and fast but probably wasn't the spartan ppl think he was. notice how he eases off at the end of almost every semi-tough 12-rounder, like he really was glad for the end (Kessler and Jones fights in particular).
he should have rematched Reid and fought jones jnr at his peak. and extraordinary he didnmt rematch hopkins, that fight would have drawn another 55,000 to the Millenium. The truth is he was afraid to rematch Reid and Hopkins, and he milked his wbo title for too long against non entities instead of fighting Jones jnr and Ottke. Still the fact is he redeemed his career with those glorious wins over Lacy and Kessler who to my mind were just as good as Ottke (in different ways tho). The jones he beat was shot and he was having trouble for 3 rounds till the cut. I think he lost to hopkins personally , but than joe probably knows that and didnt want a rematch.
Still there is something about Joe at SM which makes him seem to me like one of the 4-5 best ever at that weight.
On their best days at 168 I see Jones jnr, Toney and Hearns beating him and Ward and Benn pushing him
The Dark Destroyer wrote:It's the second half where he really showed what he was capable of, Kessler was more than in the fight till Calzaghe turned it up. I remember post fight Kessler said his speed was ridiculous.
i had a really good chat with a guy about this last night
his point was that Calzaghe changed his rythmn, around round 6 maybe. instead of boxing a 1-2 sort of rythmn, feint-punch or move-punch or whatever, he started boxing a 1-3 type rythmn, feint-move-punch, or feint feint move, feint punch move, or whatever. basically doing too many micro-movements for Kessler to effectively react to, because by the time he was reacting to the 2nd move of the rythmn Joe was executing the 3rd move.
it made sense at the pub last night anyway
I'v just had a phonecall from the producers of strictly come dancing. They want you to replace Bruno?
