This is Wallace three years later. You seriously don't think this guy at this age is going to get decapitated by the Hearns who gave Andries such a kicking?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-bjRT3NQUI
Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
Last edited by SamWise72 on 16 Jan 2013, 05:51, edited 1 time in total.
-
HomicideHenry
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 18722
- Joined: 08 Sep 2005, 00:43
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
[quote="mugabi"]@ homicide henry. lol thats far too much talk of eye gouging. To me its just something so brutal and disgusting that for a true "martial artist" to talk about it something is wrong. Surely there is a level humans should not sink to.
As for Le Bell and Stu Hart, yep as a experienced judo guy myself I certainly know about what "old man strength" feels like . I annoyed one of my first judo teachers in a fitness first a few years ago as i kept playfully pestering him to show me a particular choke. I was in my early 30s and very strong physically and the other guy was 72 and still training and barely 10 stones but the standing cross arm choke he put on me was horrific!
As far as the street goes, standing judo works great but in my experience there is only the luxury of putting a choke on, in a one on one situation and you dont get many of those these days. As good as they were if Hart or Le Bell were putting on a choke on someone in a street fight there is a possibility the other guys mates who may be inside a shop unaware of what is going on, may suddenly rush out and kick the old man in the back of the head and than stomp him into dementia and mental retardation. 5 on one mob handed.[/quote]
#1- Ask Helio Gracie whether the "UFC" truly determines the best fighter on the planet with all the rules, regulations, etc. The more rules, the less likely you will determine the best fighter in the world. The Vale Tudo fights in Brazil are about as close to "true" mma as you will ever find. Those men fish hook, head butt, elbow, someone into unconsciousness. Is that still too "disgusting" for people to do? As far as real fight science is concerned, in a real life scenario, rather than in the confines of a cage with a referee and judges there are more variables to consider. You know it only takes 5 pounds of pressure to rupture an ear drum? Another 5 to squash a persons eye into jelly? In James Figg's time the matches were broke into three rounds, the first a boxing match, the second a wrestling match, and the third a match between quarter staffs. To beat a man you had to best him two out of three disciplines. Could you imagine UFC guys doing that today, where the first round is juijitsu, the second wrestling, the third kickboxing, etc. Who would be champion then under such circumstances? Or who would be champion today if they kept the UFC the way it was with open weight class and little to no rules to speak of?
#2- Jack Dempsey, before being a gloved boxer, was a well known bare knuckle man. He was called the champion of the Rocky Mountains at light heavyweight. Over 100 matches of such nature. All in all, Dempsey said the most dangerous fights he ever had in life was these bare knuckle street brawls. Variables. Why am I getting off the track and talking about this? Simple. Skills is skills. Dempsey seldom lost in such fights. I would imagine the same goes for someone like Hart and LeBell. Wrestling, whether someone likes to admit it or not, translates to street fighting and mma more so than boxing does. However, I was referring to one on one, or even two on one type matches. But I should add, Mr. LeBell and Mr. Hart ought to be flattered that you said it would take 5 men to defeat one 70-80 year former grappling champion in a street brawl. Of course, you will say that wasn't your intent, that you was being sarcastic, etc. The fact still remains, even if it was a group of men against one man who happens to have great skills, regardless of age, my money would still be on the trained fighter because he can see things that average men cant. Openings, opprotunities, etc. Again skills is skills. And why would it be just a choke hold? Judo (LeBell's expertise) is mainly about throws, and using ones momentum against them. LeBell could do a number of things to the one man, that wouldnt take much time to execute, before those other men showed up.
As for Le Bell and Stu Hart, yep as a experienced judo guy myself I certainly know about what "old man strength" feels like . I annoyed one of my first judo teachers in a fitness first a few years ago as i kept playfully pestering him to show me a particular choke. I was in my early 30s and very strong physically and the other guy was 72 and still training and barely 10 stones but the standing cross arm choke he put on me was horrific!
As far as the street goes, standing judo works great but in my experience there is only the luxury of putting a choke on, in a one on one situation and you dont get many of those these days. As good as they were if Hart or Le Bell were putting on a choke on someone in a street fight there is a possibility the other guys mates who may be inside a shop unaware of what is going on, may suddenly rush out and kick the old man in the back of the head and than stomp him into dementia and mental retardation. 5 on one mob handed.[/quote]
#1- Ask Helio Gracie whether the "UFC" truly determines the best fighter on the planet with all the rules, regulations, etc. The more rules, the less likely you will determine the best fighter in the world. The Vale Tudo fights in Brazil are about as close to "true" mma as you will ever find. Those men fish hook, head butt, elbow, someone into unconsciousness. Is that still too "disgusting" for people to do? As far as real fight science is concerned, in a real life scenario, rather than in the confines of a cage with a referee and judges there are more variables to consider. You know it only takes 5 pounds of pressure to rupture an ear drum? Another 5 to squash a persons eye into jelly? In James Figg's time the matches were broke into three rounds, the first a boxing match, the second a wrestling match, and the third a match between quarter staffs. To beat a man you had to best him two out of three disciplines. Could you imagine UFC guys doing that today, where the first round is juijitsu, the second wrestling, the third kickboxing, etc. Who would be champion then under such circumstances? Or who would be champion today if they kept the UFC the way it was with open weight class and little to no rules to speak of?
#2- Jack Dempsey, before being a gloved boxer, was a well known bare knuckle man. He was called the champion of the Rocky Mountains at light heavyweight. Over 100 matches of such nature. All in all, Dempsey said the most dangerous fights he ever had in life was these bare knuckle street brawls. Variables. Why am I getting off the track and talking about this? Simple. Skills is skills. Dempsey seldom lost in such fights. I would imagine the same goes for someone like Hart and LeBell. Wrestling, whether someone likes to admit it or not, translates to street fighting and mma more so than boxing does. However, I was referring to one on one, or even two on one type matches. But I should add, Mr. LeBell and Mr. Hart ought to be flattered that you said it would take 5 men to defeat one 70-80 year former grappling champion in a street brawl. Of course, you will say that wasn't your intent, that you was being sarcastic, etc. The fact still remains, even if it was a group of men against one man who happens to have great skills, regardless of age, my money would still be on the trained fighter because he can see things that average men cant. Openings, opprotunities, etc. Again skills is skills. And why would it be just a choke hold? Judo (LeBell's expertise) is mainly about throws, and using ones momentum against them. LeBell could do a number of things to the one man, that wouldnt take much time to execute, before those other men showed up.
-
AngryGoon38
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1837
- Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 14:51
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
mugabi wrote:@ angry goon. That may be one of the most ridiculous posts i have ever read!!!!!
You really think wallace compares to randy couture!?? and FYI Ray mercer did not fight Randy couture. Mercer was busy at the age of 50 scoring a brutal knockout of tim sylvia a former ufc champ around that time.
How the hell u can even compare Wallace to Dewitt or Shields is mind boggling. THose 2 were experienced boxers with many amateur and pro fights at a high level under their belt. Wallace was a kicking martial artist who dabbled in things called semi contact and full contact fencing contests where there were not many kicks taken before one of them folded like accordion.
Also Dewitt and Shields may have gone the distance with Hearns but better men like Shuler, Cueves and Roldan were put out like a light so whats your point!
Its a brutal early ko by Hearns just accept it
I Got things mixed up with who i meant to say, "James Toney" , Not "Mercer". My Bad,I was tired.
In Boxing,Brutal early ko maybe so, Very likely not if its an MMA match,which is the only match Wallace would be wise enough to opt for if this matchup had to be made,Just like "Couture" opting to go right for takedown against "Toney" instead of sluggin with em. Wallace would be a natural at MMA with the striking and especially the grappling. He's got Grappler's wrists.
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
Gentlemen: the Hearns vs Superfoot 3 round exhibition did actually take place. Superfoot dominated the match, and scored heavily with his left hook as well as his kicks. As far as the MMA goes...if they had it back then, Wallace would have been first in line. He wrestled at the collegiate level for Ball State, and was an accomplished Judoka, before he began striking. So he really already was an MMA practitioner. His natural abilities, training ethic, etc., would apply in any combat oriented endeavor. He was the class of his time, and a gifted athlete. Trying to compare older rules, styles, training methods is pointless. It's apples to oranges. Put a young Wallace into MMA training today, and in a few years...you'd have a champion.
-
AngryGoon38
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1837
- Joined: 10 Jun 2008, 14:51
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
Dtank wrote:Gentlemen: the Hearns vs Superfoot 3 round exhibition did actually take place. Superfoot dominated the match, and scored heavily with his left hook as well as his kicks. As far as the MMA goes...if they had it back then, Wallace would have been first in line. He wrestled at the collegiate level for Ball State, and was an accomplished Judoka, before he began striking. So he really already was an MMA practitioner. His natural abilities, training ethic, etc., would apply in any combat oriented endeavor. He was the class of his time, and a gifted athlete. Trying to compare older rules, styles, training methods is pointless. It's apples to oranges. Put a young Wallace into MMA training today, and in a few years...you'd have a champion.
Exactly clarified my points and explanations. Thank You Sir.
Re: Tommy Hearns versus Superfoot Wallace
So in his first three exhibition rounds against something totally new, Hearns struggled a bit. Give the man a 12 round match that he would have prepared for by sparring kickboxers, and ask the ancient Wallace to go the full 12 against the Hearns that annihilated Andries, and I still say Wallace is going to sleep.