Maybe a silly question ..... Boxer/promoter

[Looking On]

Just something i read on current scene made me question my knowledge or what i thought i knew

Obviously a boxer pays his manager and trainer a percentage of his purse

but does he also pay a percentage to his promoter ?

I was always of the opinion the promoter earned his money via the ticket revenue / sponsorship deals / TV money etc and then paid the boxers out of that who then paid their trainer and manager , if they also pay a commision to the promoter theres even less left over than i realised , which i already knew wasnt a huge amount .

[mickey1975]

No

[Old bones Ian]

its an odd relationship really, the promoter needs boxers that sell, but the cheapest price he can get them to fight for earns the promoter more money, as he has to pay out less.

So sometimes the boxer wonders why he driving an old banger of a car and the promoter has a merc.
This is where a boxer needs a good manager or agent to negotiate the best payday for the boxer.

I remember there were times that Don King got boxers to sign promotional contract with him, and part of this was to have his son Carl King act as the boxers manager. So the boxer was screwed basically. it wasn't unusual for a boxer to think he was getting a $200,000 payday but come out with less than a quarter of this.

Example, Tim Witherspoon got $90,000 from when he fought Bruno, his manager Carl King got $275,000.

[spudder56]

its an odd relationship really, the promoter needs boxers that sell, but the cheapest price he can get them to fight for earns the promoter more money, as he has to pay out less.

So sometimes the boxer wonders why he driving an old banger of a car and the promoter has a merc.
This is where a boxer needs a good manager or agent to negotiate the best payday for the boxer.

I remember there were times that Don King got boxers to sign promotional contract with him, and part of this was to have his son Carl King act as the boxers manager. So the boxer was screwed basically. it wasn't unusual for a boxer to think he was getting a $200,000 payday but come out with less than a quarter of this.

Example, Tim Witherspoon got $90,000 from when he fought Bruno, his manager Carl King got $275,000.

Yeah the stories about Teflon Don are legendary

[jonp]

Sometimes the boxer pays the promoter money some have contracts where if he boxes on a rival promoters show the promter gets a percentage.

[Dirk Kelly]

The excellent Thomas Hauser did a piece in John Duddy where he was promoted by one brother and managed by another and how he was alledegy screwed. Think Hauser as a lawyer ended up representing Duddy. Google it! Fascinating.

[JLP]

If you reason that everybody you meet is trying to rip you off for their own gain, you'll not be too far wide of the mark. Even your mothers are only nice to you so you'll look after them when they get old (if your mother isn't nice to you, it's because she knows you're too much of a bum to be capable of looking after her).

[orbtastic]

its an odd relationship really, the promoter needs boxers that sell, but the cheapest price he can get them to fight for earns the promoter more money, as he has to pay out less.

So sometimes the boxer wonders why he driving an old banger of a car and the promoter has a merc.
This is where a boxer needs a good manager or agent to negotiate the best payday for the boxer.

I remember there were times that Don King got boxers to sign promotional contract with him, and part of this was to have his son Carl King act as the boxers manager. So the boxer was screwed basically. it wasn't unusual for a boxer to think he was getting a $200,000 payday but come out with less than a quarter of this.

Example, Tim Witherspoon got $90,000 from when he fought Bruno, his manager Carl King got $275,000.

Yeah the stories about Teflon Don are legendary

Don't forget the deductions!

[wrimc]

I think sometimes if a fighter is fighting on a particular televised show. This mainly happens in the US and the card is not promoted by the fighters promoter they can get a fee for letting their boxer appear on that show.

[palooka]

If you reason that everybody you meet is trying to rip you off for their own gain, you'll not be too far wide of the mark. Even your mothers are only nice to you so you'll look after them when they get old (if your mother isn't nice to you, it's because she knows you're too much of a bum to be capable of looking after her).

There's a thread on current scene about advisers that could do with your input JLP

[metchampion]

Sometimes the boxer pays the promoter money some have contracts where if he boxes on a rival promoters show the promter gets a percentage.

This usually occurs when a boxer (or his manager) has entered into a 'non BBBofC' recognised boxer - promoter agreement with a promoter. and refers to instances where the promoter loses a purse bid.

The existence of such a clause in a boxer / promoter agreement may constitute a breach of BBBofC rules. There should be no grounds whatsoever, which would, under normal circumstances, entitle any person (Promoter included) to deduct any sum from the boxer, over and above those amounts that are deducted in accordance with BBBofC rules, ie Trainer, BBBofC fees, Manager commission.

BBBofC rule 9.20 states - no contract may be entered into whereby the receipt by a boxer of any monies directly or indirectly is or may be reduced.

Also, BBBofC rule 9.37 states - purses shall be paid to the boxer or his authorised representative. By definition, this excludes a promoter, unless of course the promoter is the boxers licensed manager.

The problems arise for the boxer when he or his manager signs an agreement not approved by the BBBofC (as is required by their rules). When this happens, it is outside of the boards jurisdiction when a dispute arises. Even more of a problem when the contract entered into is between a named licensed boxer and a company, as opposed to a named, licensed promoter.

BBBofC rule 9. No "company" shall be entitled to hold a promoters licence.

[spudder56]

Sometimes the boxer pays the promoter money some have contracts where if he boxes on a rival promoters show the promter gets a percentage.

This usually occurs when a boxer (or his manager) has entered into a 'non BBBofC' recognised boxer - promoter agreement with a promoter. and refers to instances where the promoter loses a purse bid.

The existence of such a clause in a boxer / promoter agreement may constitute a breach of BBBofC rules. There should be no grounds whatsoever, which would, under normal circumstances, entitle any person (Promoter included) to deduct any sum from the boxer, over and above those amounts that are deducted in accordance with BBBofC rules, ie Trainer, BBBofC fees, Manager commission.

BBBofC rule 9.20 states - no contract may be entered into whereby the receipt by a boxer of any monies directly or indirectly is or may be reduced.

Also, BBBofC rule 9.37 states - purses shall be paid to the boxer or his authorised representative. By definition, this excludes a promoter, unless of course the promoter is the boxers licensed manager.

The problems arise for the boxer when he or his manager signs an agreement not approved by the BBBofC (as is required by their rules). When this happens, it is outside of the boards jurisdiction when a dispute arises. Even more of a problem when the contract entered into is between a named licensed boxer and a company, as opposed to a named, licensed promoter.

BBBofC rule 9. No "company" shall be entitled to hold a promoters licence.

Spot on Mate everything is covered in the regulations but as you are aware Boxers/Promotors/Managers etc still enter into Civil Contracts outside the Boards Jurisridiction and then wrongly expect the Board to sort things when it invariably goes Pear shaped Then the Board comes under fire and is blamed for everything when the blame lies entirely with the licence holders who have entered into these non Board Contracts

[Bandit]

25% of purse if a fighter fights on another promoter show!

[palooka]

And of course there are managers who do not hold contracts with the boxers; there is a fair bit of that around, or used to be. Maybe someone like pugilist-specialist could shed some light on a hypothetical situation involving a manager/boxer relationship where no contract existed; if the boxer had an issue around any aspect (maybe money) would they be able to go to the board of control?

[spudder56]

And of course there are managers who do not hold contracts with the boxers; there is a fair bit of that around, or used to be. Maybe someone like pugilist-specialist could shed some light on a hypothetical situation involving a manager/boxer relationship where no contract existed; if the boxer had an issue around any aspect (maybe money) would they be able to go to the board of control?

They have to lodge a Manager/Boxer contract with the Board now mate or become self managed and this is strictly enforced or should be

[jonp]

Sometimes the boxer pays the promoter money some have contracts where if he boxes on a rival promoters show the promter gets a percentage.

This usually occurs when a boxer (or his manager) has entered into a 'non BBBofC' recognised boxer - promoter agreement with a promoter. and refers to instances where the promoter loses a purse bid.

The existence of such a clause in a boxer / promoter agreement may constitute a breach of BBBofC rules. There should be no grounds whatsoever, which would, under normal circumstances, entitle any person (Promoter included) to deduct any sum from the boxer, over and above those amounts that are deducted in accordance with BBBofC rules, ie Trainer, BBBofC fees, Manager commission.

BBBofC rule 9.20 states - no contract may be entered into whereby the receipt by a boxer of any monies directly or indirectly is or may be reduced.

Nicely put very useful to know may be quoting this in the future.

Also, BBBofC rule 9.37 states - purses shall be paid to the boxer or his authorised representative. By definition, this excludes a promoter, unless of course the promoter is the boxers licensed manager.

The problems arise for the boxer when he or his manager signs an agreement not approved by the BBBofC (as is required by their rules). When this happens, it is outside of the boards jurisdiction when a dispute arises. Even more of a problem when the contract entered into is between a named licensed boxer and a company, as opposed to a named, licensed promoter.

BBBofC rule 9. No "company" shall be entitled to hold a promoters licence.

[palooka]

And of course there are managers who do not hold contracts with the boxers; there is a fair bit of that around, or used to be. Maybe someone like pugilist-specialist could shed some light on a hypothetical situation involving a manager/boxer relationship where no contract existed; if the boxer had an issue around any aspect (maybe money) would they be able to go to the board of control?

They have to lodge a Manager/Boxer contract with the Board now mate or become self managed and this is strictly enforced or should be

It's been like that for about 20 years hasn't it? I know of instances where things haven't been as kosher as the 'whiter than white' brigade would have us believe.

[spudder56]

And of course there are managers who do not hold contracts with the boxers; there is a fair bit of that around, or used to be. Maybe someone like pugilist-specialist could shed some light on a hypothetical situation involving a manager/boxer relationship where no contract existed; if the boxer had an issue around any aspect (maybe money) would they be able to go to the board of control?

They have to lodge a Manager/Boxer contract with the Board now mate or become self managed and this is strictly enforced or should be

It's been like that for about 20 years hasn't it? I know of instances where things haven't been as kosher as the 'whiter than white' brigade would have us believe.

Thats true but if its a board contract it will be enforced or should be I am definitely not part of the whiter than white brigade mate and I fully understand where you are coming from but as I said before problems only arise when for some unknown reason Boxers get their licence and then choose to ignore everything they have been told and enter into non board recognised contracts running alongside their Boxer/manager contracts for some reason and thats when disputes arise in which the Board are powerless to adjudicate and then everybody blames the Board

[wrimc]

Well can somebody explain how Eddie Hearn makes his money from the Brook Alexander bill when he isnt promoting it and isnt Brooks managers? (I dont know if he is Brook managers as well or not but lets say he isnt) He has put all the money and risk forward to get Brook into that position and now that he gets there he doesnt get a share of the profits. I think this is unlikely? Im sure HBO will be compensating Hearn in some form. Please correct me if I am wrong

[stevegoodwin]

Well can somebody explain how Eddie Hearn makes his money from the Brook Alexander bill when he isnt promoting it and isnt Brooks managers? (I dont know if he is Brook managers as well or not but lets say he isnt) He has put all the money and risk forward to get Brook into that position and now that he gets there he doesnt get a share of the profits. I think this is unlikely? Im sure HBO will be compensating Hearn in some form. Please correct me if I am wrong

I am told that several high profile promoters have clauses that they receive 25% of a boxers purse should they fight on another show. It is entirely possible that Matchroom could be recouping their investment by taking up to 25% of Kell's purse. I do not have a clue as to their paticular arrangement but am aware of many instances before where this has happened with other promoters

[Old bones Ian]

So would the boxer have to pay tax on his entire purse, or would it be after all the deductions are done? I'm guessing entire purse

[jessi]

So would the boxer have to pay tax on his entire purse, or would it be after all the deductions are done? I'm guessing entire purse

I would of said on what profit he makes only ! After all his self employed and expencises come off

[wrimc]

Well can somebody explain how Eddie Hearn makes his money from the Brook Alexander bill when he isnt promoting it and isnt Brooks managers? (I dont know if he is Brook managers as well or not but lets say he isnt) He has put all the money and risk forward to get Brook into that position and now that he gets there he doesnt get a share of the profits. I think this is unlikely? Im sure HBO will be compensating Hearn in some form. Please correct me if I am wrong

I am told that several high profile promoters have clauses that they receive 25% of a boxers purse should they fight on another show. It is entirely possible that Matchroom could be recouping their investment by taking up to 25% of Kell's purse. I do not have a clue as to their paticular arrangement but am aware of many instances before where this has happened with other promoters

Cheers for the response Steve seems highly likely to me.

[broomy7s]

The Brook v Alexander bill might be in association with matchroom sport. Matchroom have been promoting it over here and bring the sky tv to the table.

[Bandit]

He pays tax on what is left after all deduction, anything from trainers fee to hand tape.