Mythical Super 8

[johnswan1]

If a Prime Froch was to have competed in a Super 8 at 168 lbs involving the following fighters in their Prime, who if any of them do you think he would have beaten? And if a league was run with every fighter facing each other once, who would win the most fights? My verdict as per the below.

1. Froch (beats Benn & Collins) 2
2. Calzaghe (beats Benn, Collins, Hopkins, Froch & Toney) 5
3. Hopkins (beats Froch, Toney, Collins & Benn) 4
4. Toney (beats Froch, Collins & Benn) 3
5. Jones Jr (beats them all) 7
6. Collins (beats Benn) 1
7. Ward (beats all except Jones) 6
8. Benn (beats none of them) 0

Of all the fights I think Froch and Collins is probably the closest.

Ranking therefore being:

1. Jones Jr
2. Ward
3. Calzaghe
4. Hopkins
5. Toney
6. Froch
7. Collins
8. Benn

Regarding Benn a case could also be made for including any of Eubank, McCallum or Kessler in his place.

[The Law]

I can't see Toney losing to Hopkins, Ward or Calzaghe at 168.

x 2

[johnswan1]

Why not? Toney doesn't have a win over any big name opponent at Super Middle and Jones almost shut him out (although Toney was reportedly very weight drained for that bout).

[jonp]

Also have you done it so that if someone beats some one who ever beats him will automatically beat them as well? I think boxing has shown it does work that a beats b beats c so a will auto beat c bit more thought needed i think.

[SamWise72]

I don't think Collins belongs in this company at all. Benn would at least make the others work and take their lumps, whereas prime for prime, Collins would get shut out by virtually everyone on the list. I don't see how you can give Collins a win over a prime Benn; the only times he faced top flight opposition in their prime, he lost, whereas Benn has those wins over McClellan and Barkley at least.

[johnswan1]

I don't think Collins belongs in this company at all. Benn would at least make the others work and take their lumps, whereas prime for prime, Collins would get shut out by virtually everyone on the list. I don't see how you can give Collins a win over a prime Benn; the only times he faced top flight opposition in their prime, he lost, whereas Benn has those wins over McClellan and Barkley at least.

Collins iron chin and will against Benn who hit hard but could run out of steam. I think Collins would have to have a great chance prime for prime. Have a look here on what McCallum said having fought Toney, Jones, Jackson, Graham, Watson, Curry and Collins.

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1680 ... e-mccallum

Best overall: James Toney -- He wasn’t a complete fighter the first time we fought, and I still believe I won that fight. But he learned in that fight and he got better. He grew with each fight. By our third fight, he was a different fighter, a complete fighter. He was someone who could do it all, fight inside or outside, work offense and defense at the same time, just like me when I was younger. I like to think that I helped James mature as a fighter.

Best boxer: Herol Graham -- He was a pure boxer, a southpaw and very elusive. It wasn’t easy to hit him. He was very smart, very skilled.

Best puncher: Julian Jackson -- He hit me so hard! Julian wasn’t just powerful, he was also real quick. I got caught by a right hand in the first round of our fight and I remember thinking “What’s wrong with my legs?” I tried my best to hide it from him. I knew I had to take him out as soon as I could.

Best defense: Sumbu Kalambay -- I fought many good defensive fighters. Toney had a good defense. Graham was slippery. Jones was fast and slick, but Kalambay is No. 1. I can’t forget about him. He’s the first fighter to beat me and it’s because of his good movement. He was always sliding side to side, very shifty. He was a dangerous boy.

Fastest hands: Jackson -- He was quick, man. That’s why he got so many knockouts. Everyone focused on his power and then he’d get you with a punch you didn’t see. They landed on you -- boom! -- from out of nowhere. Kalambay and Toney were also fast. So was Jones, obviously, but I fought him when I was older and had slowed down a bit.

Fastest feet: Roy Jones -- He had very quick feet. He was elusive just because of his footwork.

Best chin: Steve Collins -- I almost said Toney, but Collins had the best chin. I hit him right on his chin all night and he wouldn‘t budge. I couldn’t hit Toney that much and when I did, he backed off. Collins walked through punches.

Best jab: Donald Curry -- I fought many fighters with good jabs. Kalambay could win fights with just his jab. McCrory had a good, hard jab. But Curry’s was the best. I see why they called him “the Cobra” because he didn’t miss with it. He was a bad man with that jab.

Strongest: Michael Watson -- Oh my God, he was so strong. That’s why that fight was so hard. It was a gruesome fight, 11 rounds of back-and-forth hell.

Smartest: Roy Jones Jr. -- I fought quite a few smart boys in my time. Graham was a cunning S.O.B. I remember him sticking his tongue out at me whenever I’d miss a punch. Kalambay was smart and so was Toney, although he didn’t have the experience to back it up when we first fought. But I think Roy may have been the smartest. He was very clever, which didn’t surprise me. I knew he was sharp. It was like he was always one step ahead of me.

[johnswan1]

And here's what Toney had to say:

http://ringtv.craveonline.com/blog/1218 ... st-i-faced

Best fighter: Mike McCallum -- That’s an easy choice, right off the top of my head it’s the Body Snatcher. He was the best fighter I fought at middleweight, super middleweight and cruiserweight. Out of all the fighters I fought, I respect him the most because he made me think about everything I tried to do. Before McCallum I was just runnin’ in on everyone, but he made me slow down and think for the first time.

Best Boxer: McCallum -- Yup, it’s him again. It’s between McCallum and Michael Nunn, but I gotta go with McCallum because he was a master boxer who wasn’t afraid to stand his ground. Nunn was mostly fast. I admit that he outboxed me for about nine rounds, but my body shots slowed him down. I told him during the fight ‘I’m gonna catch you!’ And I did.

Best puncher: Merqui Sosa -- Sam Peter is the hardest puncher I’ve fought, but pound-for-pound it’s Sosa because he hurt me the most. I’ll never forget that fight, we fought on an ESPN show in Atlantic City on a Sunday. I went at him like I did everyone back then and that mother f_____ hit me so hard in the third round I was seeing triple for the next three rounds. He knew how to hit and he was so awkward that I couldn’t time him and he caught me high on the head.

Quickest hands: Roy Jones -- He was fast. I’ll give him that, but that’s all I’ll give him. I would have knocked him out if I wasn’t drained from losing 44 pounds in six weeks. I went in (that fight) like a fool and wasn’t properly prepared.

Quickest feet: Nunn -- He had some fast-ass feet (laughing), didn’t he? He was an escape artist for nine or 10 rounds, ‘til I caught up to him.

Best defense: McCallum: He was right there in front of me, but I had a hard time hitting him with clean punches. I basically came into my own by fighting him. I learned how to be elusive without running around the ring by fighting Mike McCallum three times.

Best chin: Tony Thornton: The punching postman from Philly! (laughs) I thought I was gonna knock him out easy. He was squared up with his chin right there for me to hit but I hit him with every punch I had and he wouldn’t budge. I hit him with my best left hook and he didn’t blink.

Best jab: McCallum: Mike’s jab was like a piston. There were other guys I fought who had good jabs, like Nunn and Jones, but they just had speed and they just flicked it. Mike popped that jab with authority. He was an old-school fighter.

Strongest: Samuel Peter: He was just a big-ass African with brute African strength.

Smartest: McCallum: Come on, who do you think it is? Who’s the one fighter I truly respect? You got it, the Body Snatcher, Mike McCallum. I fought my share of boxers who thought they were clever like Roy Jones, Michael Nunn, Montell Griffin, and Reggie Johnson, but they were all scared to really fight. McCallum boxed, he fought, he defended, and he didn’t run all over the ring. He could do all that because he was smart.

[Ezzard]

For me Toney is the best of them…but you know he’d lose some due to his mom’s home baking…

Jones would look good but a couple of these guys would probably spark him out.

Benn would win one nobody gave him a chance in.

Hopkins would not lose a single round in a single fight, at least not on his own card.

Calzaghe and Ward would be the guys nobody else wanted to fight.

[SamWise72]

Great "best I ever faced" article, but it doesn't give me any reason to think Collins beats Benn, or gives any of the others a hard night. Walking through punches is not how you beat Benn, is it? Didn't work for anyone else. (I agree that pretty much all the others beat Benn)

[jessi]

Yep for me jones jnr in his day without a doubt, followed by ward and then calzaghe !

[hurlock]

Jones on his day you couldn't get near him! Supreme athlete with speed of both hand a feet, power, guile& savvy. He shuts them all out, knowbody could make jones fight there fight or play to there strengths he was to clever.

I'd say

Jones
Toney
Hopkins

[jessi]

Jones on his day you couldn't get near him! Supreme athlete with speed of both hand a feet, power, guile& savvy. He shuts them all out, knowbody could make jones fight there fight or play to there strengths he was to clever.

I'd say

Jones
Toney
Hopkins

Totally agree with jones, still think ward beats everyone else, his special !

[whiskey]

Jones at 168lb was something alien to boxing. He was like a mind reader - i swear he took those little tablets from the movie 'Limitless' during that era.

Toney was no mug, but he got toyed with at times. Sure he will have his way of blaming the defeat on his weight or something - but Jones was on fire during that period and made the very best look clumsy.

He'd have probably done really well in a 175lb rematch maybe a year later, once he knew that Jones was the truth and took it all a bit more seriously. But I still think he'd lose on points.