Classic American West Coast Boxing

[El Gallo]

Ok now that my rant is over. I have a hypothetical

1969.

Ramos, Dejesus and Cervantes. Lighweight division

Round Robin this. I'd take Cervantes over both. Other opinions?

I think the year makes this at least interesting speculation.


1969..... It was the year the Blood Sweat and Tears album took Album of the year. I thought it was good work.....but that's just me.

I think DeJesus was the 2nd best lightweight behind Duran. Cervantes was a brilliant fighter too, but I like De Jesus to beat him clearly. Mando would be an interesting opponent for both, but Mando would have been busted up pretty bad in both cases. They'd be good fights, however, regardless of how you matched those three. By the way, I remember 1969 so vivdly, and hear that song!

[dagosd2000]

I'm Rubber You're Glue

"Did you see that ESPN thing on the Thrilla' In Manila"? I asked my boxing friend Ron.
"I did,"he answered.
"The emphasis was on the name calling Ali did to Frazier."
"They sure made a deal of it."
"Ali holding up that toy ape and calling Frazier a 'gorilla'".
"They said it wasn't right for him to do."
"Right,wrong. He said it. Made it sound like it hurt Joe's feelings."
"One black guy said that was the worst insult you could call another black man."
"I can't believe Frazier's feelings were hurt."
"Yeah,he is a fighter. It's not like he's a Lady Of The Blessed Sacrament."
"They want to make a big deal about that after all these years."
"Remember when Bramble called Mancini a murderer before their fight?",asked Ron.
"Said he was saying that to get inside Mancini's head."
"Bramble was just a better fighter."
"I don't see how name calling can get into a fighter's head that much,"I said.
"Jack Johnson sure heard a lot of it,"said Ron.
"I saw A Ken Burn's documentary on Johnson. Said when Corbett was working Jeffries corner during their fight in Reno,Corbett kept calling Johnson a n-----."
"Johnson took a lot of that talk."
"Wouldn't it have been funny if after each round Jeffries staggered back to the corner and told Corbett,'Will you shut up. Everytime you call Johnson a n-----,he belts me in the mouth.'"

[dagosd2000]

Jack Johnson

[scartissue]

Ok now that my rant is over. I have a hypothetical

1969.

Ramos, Dejesus and Cervantes. Lighweight division

Round Robin this. I'd take Cervantes over both. Other opinions?

I think the year makes this at least interesting speculation.


1969..... It was the year the Blood Sweat and Tears album took Album of the year. I thought it was good work.....but that's just me.

Steve, if this is '69 we're talking about then I would have to go with Mando. he was at his peak while DeJesus had just turned pro and was a 6 round featherweight at this time. Cervantes was a 10 round fighter by this point but was still only fighting South American club fighters. The only two decent fighters he fought by this time was Antonio Gomez and Cruz Marcano, who both beat him. Cervantes would have his breakout year the following year by coming to L.A. and stopping El Gato on a cut in a knock down drag out fight and then KO'ing Enrique Jana. By '70 it would have been some fight between he and Mando, but in '69 I would still lean towards Ramos.

Scartissue

[dagosd2000]

Antonio Cevantes-Kid Pambele

[dagosd2000]

A Little League Mistake

I remember playing ball in Little League. That was in the era of Mantle,Berra,and Ford. The Yankees-you either loved them or hated them,kinda' of the way it is now. But back then there wasn't all the build up. I lived in San Diego and the west coast didn't even have a major league team yet. Little League was as American as you could get. The fathers managed and the moms worked in the snack shack. There weren't any "team mothers" back then.

The coach on our team was a guy named Dick Shirley. He wasn't a father of one of the players. I don't even think he was married. Besides he didn't look old enough to have a kid on a Little League team.

Coach Shirley was the only coach in the league that wore a baseball uniform. I don't know where he got it,but it read "Robins" on the front and it was trimmed in red. Our team,"The Lion's Club", uniforms were decked out in blue.

We had a real good squad. Coach Shirley had an eye for talent during try outs and stacked the team pretty good. We won all our games,and like the Yankees,you either loved us or hated our guts.

I played third base and was a better hitter than fielder. Led the league in homers. When you're 12 years old and lead the the league in home runs it doesn't get much better than that. The one thing though ,looking back on it all,was how Coach Shirley acted like a jerk on the field. He probably was a jerk everywhere else,but I fortunately never saw that.

One Saturday afternoon we were playing the "Merchants".The team was sponsored by the local merchants in Ocean Beach. The player wore the name of one of the merchant's business on the front of his uniform. Every kid had a different name on the front.

The "Merchants" didn't set the league on fire and were never in the running for the championship,but they did have a pretty fair pitcher. His name was Steve Davis,a lefty.Poor Steve got stuck wearing the jersey that read "Titlow Insurance."No one wanted that shirt.

Everybody knew each other in the league because we all went to grammar school together.Even though Steve was a smooth pitcher,we didn't think he could trim our bunch. Well things were turning south in our dugout. We were leaving the bases loaded and the "Merchants"were making big plays in the field. Steve was going along fine ,pitching himself out of jams even through all the "ragging"from our coach,Dick Shirley."Hey rabbit ears" ,'hey rag arm nice jersey you're wearing",hey pitcher you throw like a girl." That kind of stuff. All game long. Coach Shirley wanted us to rattle Steve too,but after a while we backed off.

Well we stareted to get to Steve in our bottom of the 6th inning.That's supposed to be the final inning in Little League.There still's no score.
I lead off with a bleeding single through the two hole. The next guy sacrafices me over. Their catcher lets one get to the back stop and now I'm on third with no outs.But Steve bears down on the next hitter striking him out on three pitches.

This is when it really got interesting. See there's a league rule stating that every kid has to bat at least one time. We had kid riding the bench at that moment named Jimmy Holt. He hadn't gotten his ups yet. Coach Shirley was pretending that everyone was looking the other way,but the "Merchants" manager caught the ruse. He went to the score keeper and Coach Shirley had to send Jimmy Holt to the plate.

Now looking at Jimmy Holt,you would be impressed by his physique. The kid had a big neck and wide shoulders. But I'm not sure about his eye sight. Maybe he needed glasses,but I had never seen him hit a ball with a bat. Not even in batting practice, Not even a foul tip. Jimmy wasn't a real out going kid. Probably being that big and always whiffing on the ball was embarrasing.

So Jimmy trudges to the the box head down. Coach Shirley is groaning"Why him?Why him with the game on the line?" I don't think there was anyone in the world besides Jimmy's parents who didn't want Jimmy to come through like the kids on our team. Well Jimmy does his whiff through on the first pitch. All The time Coach Shirley is going beserk. "Hey pitcher,you're a loser.'hey pitcher you throw like a sissy." The next pitch Jimmy swings at hits him in the ribs. Coach Shirley comes running out of the dug out wanting Jimmy to get a pass to first base,but the ump says"no"because Jimmy had a swing at it. Well Davis looks at me and then comes to the plate. Jimmy swings and crushes the pitch against the center field score board kncking off one the numbers. I think the dent is still on that score board today.

Well I touch home with the winning run and before Jimmy can get to the plate we're jumping all over him. Coach Shirley is jumping up and down like a rabbit screaming."I knew we'd get that rag arm."

As we're slapping Jimmy on the back I notice a man get out of the bleachers. He's wearing khaki pants and a sweater. It's Steve Davis's old man. He walks up to Coach Shirley with a stare. "You got a big mouth,"he tells Coach Shirley. Well coach Shirley takes a step forward and just like that Steve's dad delivers a straight left for a strike right on the tip of Coach Shirley's chin. Coach Shirley lands on the seat of his pants with this look on his face like this didn't just happen. He gets up and "bang" another left to the jaw for a strike. This time Coach Shirley didn't want to get up so fast.

Everyone thought that that was even "cooler" than the game. We all walked up to Steve except Coach Shirley.
"I guess he didn't know Pops was an all service Golden Gloves Champ."
"Well he does now,"I said.

[dagosd2000]

Muhammad Ali Is Ailing

"That what his brother said,"said Ed the bartender as he set the glass of draft in front of me. "Says he's not well. Doesn't recognize anyone. Can't talk. Doubts whether he'll get through the summer."
"Well there's been talk like that before."
"But did you see the picture of him? He's lost a lot of weight."
"They should have never put him up against Holmes,"I said.
"That was the nail in the coffin."
"Pacheco was right. Somehow he got through so many battles,but the Holmes fight was the one he couldn't find a way."
There was a picture signed by Ali to Burke hanging behind the bar. Burke got that when Ali was in town training for the first Norton fight.
"After the third Frazier fight Pacheco would have no more of it,"I said.
"Holmes would have killed Ali if they hadn't of stopped it."
"They say it wasn't stopped until Elijah Muhammad gave the word to Angelo."
"To think of that,"said Ed shaking his head. "The ref,Dundee,the doctor,the commisioner-all watching that and they wouldn't stop it."
"And here's the thing that gets me. They knew Ali wouldn't quit. They knew he'd die first."
Ed began whiping the bar.
"You know Rog,"he said,"there wasn't a heavyweight who could move around the ring like Ali."
"And there might have never been one with more guts."

[dagosd2000]

Muhammad Ali

[Expug]

Great stuff Rog. We are in the middle of a six game 13 day road trip. Right now I'm sitting in HP Pavilion in San Jose as we are playing The Sharks tonight. After, we fly to Phoenix and Nashville. We flew here from Calgary. We flew there from Vancouver where we flew from Minnesota. Its comforting though in the down time to come on here and read the stuff posted from my pals here it really is.

[dagosd2000]

Great stuff Rog. We are in the middle of a six game 13 day road trip. Right now I'm sitting in HP Pavilion in San Jose as we are playing The Sharks tonight. After, we fly to Phoenix and Nashville. We flew here from Calgary. We flew there from Vancouver where we flew from Minnesota. Its comforting though in the down time to come on here and read the stuff posted from my pals here it really is.

Thanks Brian.The Blackhawks have always been my team going back to the Bobby Hull days. Best of luck to you and the Blackhawks. Rog

[dagosd2000]

Great stuff Rog. We are in the middle of a six game 13 day road trip. Right now I'm sitting in HP Pavilion in San Jose as we are playing The Sharks tonight. After, we fly to Phoenix and Nashville. We flew here from Calgary. We flew there from Vancouver where we flew from Minnesota. Its comforting though in the down time to come on here and read the stuff posted from my pals here it really is.

Thanks Brian.The Blackhawks have always been my team going back to the Bobby Hull days. Best of luck to you and the Blackhawks. Rog

Brian Higgins

[Chuck1052]

Keep it up, Rog!

- Chuck Johnston

[dagosd2000]

What I Tell Ya...

"I didn't know you liked hockey,"said my father as he was putting on his coat and tie.
"I like watching the Blackhawks."
The TV commentator was finishing announcing the starting lineups.The Blackhawks were hosting the Stanley Cup Bruins at the Chicago Stadium. I always enjoyed watching anything from the Chicago Stadium because I liked the sound of the big Wurlitzer Organ. A big sound for a big city.
"Did I hear him say Esposito?"asked my dad.
"Yeah,that's Tony Esposito the Chicago goalie."
"Tony Esposito? Is he any good?"
"He's one of the best in the league."
"Well I think you ought to know that Tony Esposito is your cousin."
"Really?"I said in slight astonishment. "You never mentioned that to me before."
"Sure,"said my father tying his tie."His last name is Esposito like ours. He's from Chicago. And he was named after your uncle ,Anthony. Besides,he's Italian."
"I thought Tony Esposito was born in Canada."
"No, he's from the neighborhood."
My dad checked himself out in the mirror.
"Well I've got to go downtown and talk to a fella,"he said. "I'll be back in a couple of hours."

The game started and right off the bat the Bruins were skating the Hawks off the ice. The Bruins were the best team in the league and they were loaded. They had Bobby Orr who was the best player at the time and Tony Esposito's older brother,Phil, who led the league in scoring. It was tough watching the game. By the middle of the 3rd period I'd had enough. I got up to change the channel. That's when my father returned from downtown.
"How's the game?"
"The Blackhawks are getting killed."
My father started to loosen his tie.
"Phil Esposito just turned a hat trick. The game's over."
"See,"said my father,"What I tell ya. Phil Esposito is you cousin."

[dagosd2000]

Champs Lounge

[dagosd2000]

Duct Tape

"So how's school going?" asked Ed as he drew a tall cold draft.
"When I'm finished with this class I can get my credential,"I said.
"What course is this?"
"Childhood development."
"Sounds interesting."
"Yesterday our psycologist took us to a restauarant. She split us up into three groups. Each group had to function without the use of one of its senses."
"What did you lose?"
"We couldn't talk. We put duct tape on our mouthes."
"Did you feel awkward?"
"To tell the truth I felt more at ease. I was relaxed. I felt I could be more honest with myself."
"That's strange,"said Ed.
I held the beer glass.
"Someone said the apocalypse began with the first spoken word."
"What was that?"asked Ed.
I drank some beer.
"Say Ed,how's Burke doing with that new kid he's got? Doesn't he have a fight coming up?"
"They're trying to work on his plan of attack. Wants him to throw combinations off his feignts."
I grabbed the glass again.
"Well tell Burke not to use any duct tape."
"What was that?"
"Just thinking out loud."
Two customers walked in and sat at the other end of the bar.
"Rog,another beer?"
"No thanks. If you see Burke tell him I said'hello'".
As Ed walked down to the other end of the bar ,I thought of my grand daughter Amanda when she was nine years old dancing sevillanas in the Gypsy quarter of Seville with the old men at three in the morning.

[dagosd2000]

[CNorkusJr]

I remember my father being with various hockey players over the years. Sports Illustraited magazine used to sponsor sports nights for handicapped children at a center for disabled here on Long Island. SI would ask several sports stars from across all sports to attend this affair for over 300 children and their families each year.
In 1970, they asked my father to appear for the first time. Of course he accepted and was indeed honored to attend. Afterwards, SI was so impressed with the way my father handled the children he met, they asked him back each year until the center was closed down around 1990. Many boxers appeared over the years, but good frend Vito Antuefermo would be asked to attend each year also. Here are some pictures from those nights with some Hockey greats.

Fellow New Jersey Devil stars at the time- just young kids then:

Pat Verbeek,John Mclean,Bruce Driver,Sean Burke with Charley




Charley with Chicago Legend Bobby Hull with "Mr. Hockey" Gordie Howe, and NY Jet John Schmitt.
Many of my friends keep asking me if the young boy with Bobby Hull is his young son, future HOF, Brett Hull. The time period fits and he did attend with his father- but I do not know if Bobby has another son.




With Phil Esposito at a charity auction event, my father used to auction his boxing shoes that he wore during his reffing days.
(White high top PONY boxing shoes)

[CNorkusJr]

This was in with hockey pictures, Newest NFL HOF Bill Parcells. I remember taking this shot in Madison Sq Garden after my father just got out of ring after reffing bloody battle. (notice blood on shirt). Parcells just won Super Bowl with The NY Giants and is a big boxing fan.

[Expug]

Rog and Charley, for sure you guys and the others here on the thread would like the great majority of NHL players. Good guys,very down to earth and charitable. Kind even. I find the personality of most of them to be very similar to boxers. I think you guys would too. Charley,Bobby Hull has two boys,Bobby jr and Brett. I can't tell which one that young lad is.

[El Gallo]

Champs Lounge

This is Burke Emery's bar.
Burke was inducted into the CBHOF this past year. Rog and I made it happen!
It never got a mention, no fanfare, no notice.
I'm not certain Burke is aware of his induction. Sadly, it didn't have to be that way.
There were two earlier campaigns to induct Emery, but he was denied.
So after two years of BS I say, he's going in this year. Bottom line, we refused to be denied!
We did our best for a deserving world boxing figure.
Sadly, had it taken place in it's right time, maybe it would have brought a smile to the face of a tough old man?
God bless you, Burke!

-Rick Farris

[CNorkusJr]

Rog and Charley, for sure you guys and the others here on the thread would like the great majority of NHL players. Good guys,very down to earth and charitable. Kind even. I find the personality of most of them to be very similar to boxers. I think you guys would too. Charley,Bobby Hull has two boys,Bobby jr and Brett. I can't tell which one that young lad is.

Thanks Brian- I thought you might like to see these pictures. The Islanders by me are very charitable here on Long Island. I was at Isles -Penguins game Tues nite (We lost). but its a great night out.

[CNorkusJr]

Champs Lounge

This is Burke Emery's bar.
Burke was inducted into the CBHOF this past year. Rog and I made it happen!
It never got a mention, no fanfare, no notice.
I'm not certain Burke is aware of his induction. Sadly, it didn't have to be that way.
There were two earlier campaigns to induct Emery, but he was denied.
So after two years of BS I say, he's going in this year. Bottom line, we refused to be denied!
We did our best for a deserving world boxing figure.
Sadly, had it taken place in it's right time, maybe it would have brought a smile to the face of a tough old man?
God bless you, Burke!

-Rick Farris

Wow Now this must be a Great Place to watch boxing or just have a beer and talk about it. Not much here on Long Island-though there are a few generic sports bars.
NYC has a place in Times Square called Jimmy's Corner owned by famed gym owner and cornerman Jimmy Glenn. He's had the place for zillion years and nothing but boxing memorabilia in it dating back to 40's and 50's. Small but the beer is cold, and unless Jimmy is on road working a corner, he's in the joint. His wife handles the daytime duties. A real gem of old NY that only a handful of locals and boxing crowd knows about.
I bet Mr Emery's place is the same. Cant beat a place like that. Thanks Roger for the a great photo.

[Chuck1052]

Duct Tape

"So how's school going?" asked Ed as he drew a tall cold draft.
"When I'm finished with this class I can get my credential,"I said.
"What course is this?"
"Childhood development."
"Sounds interesting."
"Yesterday our psycologist took us to a restauarant. She split us up into three groups. Each group had to function without the use of one of its senses."
"What did you lose?"
"We couldn't talk. We put duct tape on our mouthes."
"Did you feel awkward?"
"To tell the truth I felt more at ease. I was relaxed. I felt I could be more honest with myself."
"That's strange,"said Ed.
I held the beer glass.
"Someone said the apocalypse began with the first spoken word."
"What was that?"asked Ed.
I drank some beer.
"Say Ed,how's Burke doing with that new kid he's got? Doesn't he have a fight coming up?"
"They're trying to work on his plan of attack. Wants him to throw combinations off his feignts."
I grabbed the glass again.
"Well tell Burke not to use any duct tape."
"What was that?"
"Just thinking out loud."
Two customers walked in and sat at the other end of the bar.
"Rog,another beer?"
"No thanks. If you see Burke tell him I said'hello'".
As Ed walked down to the other end of the bar ,I thought of my grand daughter Amanda when she was nine years old dancing sevillanas in the Gypsy quarter of Seville with the old men at three in the morning.

Instead of using medical tape, duct tape should be required when taping the wrists after putting on the boxing gloves. I have never seen duct tape unravel when used in such a situation during a bout.

- Chuck Johnston

[CNorkusJr]

http://nymag.com/listings/bar/jimmys_corner/

Jimmy Glenn's place with a dead on write up.
If you scroll through the slide show-the white female bartender is Jimmy's wife.

[dagosd2000]

The Well At The End Of The World

I hadn't been to Chiki Jai's in Tijuana in a long time. I know when you think of a name like Chiki Jai and connect it with Tijuana you think of something down and dirty ,but Chiki Jai's an eating spot.
It's on the corner across from the old Jai Alai palace. It's owned by a Basque family and was set up as a eatery featuring Basque food. There are tiles of Don Quixote and El Cid on the walls. It had ties with the Jai Alai because in order to be a Jai Alai Player you have to be a Basque.The Jai Alai players made Chiki Jai their hangout.The place is getting a little long in the tooth,but the food is still good.

I walked in and to my surprise I saw an old fighter sitting at a table in the back. It was Al Conde who was regular feature on the local cards in Tijuana. I drew up a chair and introduced myself.
"Aren't you Al Conde the fighter?"
"Sure am. Surprised anyone still remembers."
The expug was neatly dressed and was smoking a cigarette.
"Join me in something to eat?"he asked.
I sat down across from him as the waiter brought over a couple of menus.
"I watched you fight a lot in TJ,"I said.
"Fought most of my fights here."
" I saw you fight across the street at the Fronton."
"When there wasn't Jai Alai ,there was always the fights."
I perused the menu. Everything was in Spanish.
"I fought my last one there,"he said.
"The Hedgemon Lewis fight?"
"Yeah,That was my last one."
I didn't want to comment on that because I remember him taking an awful beating.
"They brought Hedgemon Lewis down from LA to fight me as a tune up for his first Indian Red fight."
"I remember his entourage.All those Hollywood people. Ryan O'Neal and Jennifer 'what's her name'".
"Did you get hit with any bottles when the ref stopped it?"
"No,I think the aficianados were aiming at the Hollywood crowd."
I was still trying to identify something on the menu.
"You know I hung around too long,"he said. "I tried to catch lightning in a bottle. An old fighter gets lazy."
"You were a good fighter,"I said trying to lift his spirits.
"I thought I could make up for not going to the gym by what I knew in my head."
"You were pretty cute."
"It got so I couldn't even take the smell of that gym anymore."
"It's tough for a fighter to hang them up sometimes."
"There's no Fountain of Youth."
"Yeah."
"Think of all those people who go to Lourdes each year?"
"And the Bible talks about the healing waters of Bethesda."
"It's all a myth."
Just then the waiter came back.
"What are you going to have?"I asked the old fighter.
"I'm going to have my usual,the Fabada Asturia."
"What's that?"
"It's a soup with sausage and beans. It's very hearty. I have it in here three four times a week."
"I'll think I'll have the same."
"Good ,"said the fighter,"It prevents you from getting the flu."