Muhammad Ali cherry-picking

[Giancarlo]

Outside of Brian London, I dont know how the first incarnation of Muhammad Ali was a cherry picker unless you want to criticize his opposition when he was developing as a professional from his debut to the Liston fight. It's the second incarnation of Ali who did alot of cherry picking.

Great assessment. In his 2nd "incarnation", he fought Frazier (3x)Norton (3X),Foreman, Quarry (2x),Bonavena, Young,Lyle,Shavers, Bugner (2x), Ellis, Patterson, Mathis, Chuvalo. No one else fought nearly all of these wimps.

However, he never did take on Boone Kirkman, did he?

You're also blatantly disregarding the fact Ali fought the likes of Jean Pierre Coopman, Jurgen Blin, Mac Foster (who by that time was considered a hype job after Quarry flattened him), Alfredo Evangelista, Jimmy Young (who at the time was not on the radar), Chuck Wepner (whose #8 ranking was a gift at best), Al Lewis (who had been in prison for many years), etc.

As far as Patterson, he was much older and slower than he was the first time they fought. IN the last Frazier fight, both men were passed it. Ellis was Ali's sparring partner, so does that really amount to anything? Mathis was good but was one of those guys who you never could bet on to be in tip top shape. Chuvalo, same with Patterson, was older and slower than the first time. Quarry wasn't mentally in the fight because his brother was almost killed against Foster earlier in the card, so Ali wasn't exactly facing a willing participant.

The only legit guys by your list, who were tip top shape and nothing was wrong with them, was Lyle (who was beating Ali on the scorecards before that premature stoppage), Shavers, Bonavena, and Norton who despite what the record books says beat Ali twice, and Foreman. Still, I must admit, on paper nobody has ever had that much success at heavyweight against such quality opposition.

Yeah, Rufus, Ali was a bum.

Lucky he didn't come along now and have to face the lads in your ATG tournamentas as spruiked in the "Off Topic" forum.

I mean, what chance would he have with an ATG like yourself. The way you viciously attacked Love's gloves with your face was awesome,mate.

Have you got your training video up yet? If you still can't get hold of a camera, just put up the video of Love caving in your head.

You might want to get someone to show you how to cut out the sound, the crowd bursting into laughter at your ridiculous "footwork" is a bit of a giveaway that you don't know the first thing about boxing.

A bit harsh? Maybe, but your constant nonsense gets a bit too much at times.

[Giancarlo]

PS, what does ATG mean in the context of the tournament you and the other clowns are trying to set up?

It obviously can't be All Time Great as that would be an insult to true All Time Great boxers and, as an obvious boxing historian, there is no way you would want to disrespect the true great fighters.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

PS, what does ATG mean in the context of the tournament you and the other clowns are trying to set up?

It obviously can't be All Time Great as that would be an insult to true All Time Great boxers and, as an obvious boxing historian, there is no way you would want to disrespect the true great fighters.

AwfulTerdGoons?

[fatcity69]

People criticise Ali fighting Brian London but London was actually a very tough game fighter who went the distance with Zora Folley and Jerry quarry at around the same time he fought Ali, most people agree that both Folley and Quarry werent total bums so what does it say that they were held to largely competitive distance fights by a guy who Ali basted out in 3 rounds???. Maybe Ali was actually pretty good???....

[p4p1]

People criticise Ali fighting Brian London but London was actually a very tough game fighter who went the distance with Zora Folley and Jerry quarry at around the same time he fought Ali, most people agree that both Folley and Quarry werent total bums so what does it say that they were held to largely competitive distance fights by a guy who Ali basted out in 3 rounds???. Maybe Ali was actually pretty good???....

I don't know maybe he was, can't see what would ever give you that impression though.

[Ambling Alp II]

Outside of Brian London, I dont know how the first incarnation of Muhammad Ali was a cherry picker unless you want to criticize his opposition when he was developing as a professional from his debut to the Liston fight. It's the second incarnation of Ali who did alot of cherry picking.

Great assessment. In his 2nd "incarnation", he fought Frazier (3x)Norton (3X),Foreman, Quarry (2x),Bonavena, Young,Lyle,Shavers, Bugner (2x), Ellis, Patterson, Mathis, Chuvalo. No one else fought nearly all of these wimps.

However, he never did take on Boone Kirkman, did he?

You're also blatantly disregarding the fact Ali fought the likes of Jean Pierre Coopman, Jurgen Blin, Mac Foster (who by that time was considered a hype job after Quarry flattened him), Alfredo Evangelista, Jimmy Young (who at the time was not on the radar), Chuck Wepner (whose #8 ranking was a gift at best), Al Lewis (who had been in prison for many years), etc.

As far as Patterson, he was much older and slower than he was the first time they fought. IN the last Frazier fight, both men were passed it. Ellis was Ali's sparring partner, so does that really amount to anything? Mathis was good but was one of those guys who you never could bet on to be in tip top shape. Chuvalo, same with Patterson, was older and slower than the first time. Quarry wasn't mentally in the fight because his brother was almost killed against Foster earlier in the card, so Ali wasn't exactly facing a willing participant.

The only legit guys by your list, who were tip top shape and nothing was wrong with them, was Lyle (who was beating Ali on the scorecards before that premature stoppage), Shavers, Bonavena, and Norton who despite what the record books says beat Ali twice, and Foreman. Still, I must admit, on paper nobody has ever had that much success at heavyweight against such quality opposition.

Even for you, this a pathetic post. Yes Ali fought a few guys that weren;'t that good(Coopman,Blin,Evangelista etc.)so what? Literally every fighter who had fought does that.

Jimmy Young was not on the radar? He was the #3 contender. He had already beaten Ron Lyle.
Patterson was certainly past his best, but he had recently beaten Bonavena.
Quarry wasn't a willing opponent? Really? How stupid is that. Ali saw his brother get beat up on undercards too. Guess what, Ali didn't know what was going to happen to Quarry's brother before he signed for the fight. He was willing to take on Quarry. That is the point.

Lyle was ahead on the scorecards before a premature stoppage. First I don't think it was a premature stoppage. More importantly, this about Ali taking on the best, not what happened in the fight.
Frazier was a great fighter each time he took on Ali. Ali fought him in 1971, and couldn't get a rematch in 1972 or 1973. He fought him 1974 and 1975. What else was he supposed to do?

This is more than "on paper" Ali went out of his way to fight the best competition. By far, he fought the best competition of any heavyweight ever.
Who fought better competition during this time? Frazier, foreman, Norton all missed fighting several of the top guys that Ali took on.
That you hate Ali with every fiber in your being makes you make these stupid posts.

[HomicideHenry]

PS, what does ATG mean in the context of the tournament you and the other clowns are trying to set up?

It obviously can't be All Time Great as that would be an insult to true All Time Great boxers and, as an obvious boxing historian, there is no way you would want to disrespect the true great fighters.

It's only called the ATG Series cus we are known for our weekly radio shows which happens to be under the banner of 'All Time Great', which suits us fine because we are the #1 combat sports radio show on blogtalkradio. We are also among the top 400,000 websites in the world. Not bad for a couple of arm chair critics who started it all as a joke four years ago.

Even for you, this a pathetic post. Yes Ali fought a few guys that weren;'t that good(Coopman,Blin,Evangelista etc.)so what? Literally every fighter who had fought does that.

Jimmy Young was not on the radar? He was the #3 contender. He had already beaten Ron Lyle.
Patterson was certainly past his best, but he had recently beaten Bonavena.
Quarry wasn't a willing opponent? Really? How stupid is that. Ali saw his brother get beat up on undercards too. Guess what, Ali didn't know what was going to happen to Quarry's brother before he signed for the fight. He was willing to take on Quarry. That is the point.

Lyle was ahead on the scorecards before a premature stoppage. First I don't think it was a premature stoppage. More importantly, this about Ali taking on the best, not what happened in the fight.
Frazier was a great fighter each time he took on Ali. Ali fought him in 1971, and couldn't get a rematch in 1972 or 1973. He fought him 1974 and 1975. What else was he supposed to do?

This is more than "on paper" Ali went out of his way to fight the best competition. By far, he fought the best competition of any heavyweight ever.
Who fought better competition during this time? Frazier, foreman, Norton all missed fighting several of the top guys that Ali took on.
That you hate Ali with every fiber in your being makes you make these stupid posts.

#1- Jimmy was considered an easy win for Ali, but in the end it turned out to be a wrong thought process, because Ali got a gift decision over him. Nobody thought Young would of given Ali a hard fight let alone obviously win it and get robbed.

#2- You say that of Frazier ("What else was he supposed to do?"), why not say that of Ali when he fought Evagelista, Coopman, etc. he could have rematched Norton for a fourth time, he could have rematched Foreman, etc. Still, yes indeed you are right Ali had the best names on a resume of any heavyweight champion in history even if you throw in guys like Blin and Wepner.

#3- I don't hate Ali with every fiber of my being. I acknowledge that he is either the #1 or #2 heavyweight of all time, and because of his tremendous speed, ring generalship, and punch reistance he is the measuring sticky by all other heavyweights must be compared to. But in doing so, he as well must be put under the microscope. Not every fight he had was against someone who was bringing their A game, or in best of condition either physically, mentally or emotionally. HAVING SAID THAT.... All fighters are under the same scrutiny and must be treated as such. If I hate Ali so much, why is it that I say on a regular basis that the only heavyweight I could see beating Ali at his best is Larry Holmes? All others either lose liserably, or get busted up and stopped on cuts. Only Holmes in my mind comes close. Still, I know you won't believe that statement and I won't try and convince you of it otherwise, however (as stated prior) you have to break down each fight to the very finest minute deatils. I try and do that with Ali, though I imagine the way I try and show evidence of it comes off as being cold, indifferent, or even down right critical.

[yancey]

Brian London was downright pitiful against Ali in '66.

He did nothing for two rounds while Ali mainly just enjoyed himself dancing around.

Then, in the third round, Ali crept a little closer, London froze awkwardly in a corner, Ali threw a very fancy looking flurry of punches. (most of which did nothing, haha) London falls down, takes the count, and the crowd boos.

What a joke of a fight.

[Giancarlo]

Brian London was downright pitiful against Ali in '66.

He did nothing for two rounds while Ali mainly just enjoyed himself dancing around.

Then, in the third round, Ali crept a little closer, London froze awkwardly in a corner, Ali threw a very fancy looking flurry of punches. (most of which did nothing, haha) London falls down, takes the count, and the crowd boos.

What a joke of a fight.

You're on the money, Nancy, it was almost as one-side as Foreman vs Frazier (1).

[fatcity69]

Brian London was downright pitiful against Ali in '66.

He did nothing for two rounds while Ali mainly just enjoyed himself dancing around.

Then, in the third round, Ali crept a little closer, London froze awkwardly in a corner, Ali threw a very fancy looking flurry of punches. (most of which did nothing, haha) London falls down, takes the count, and the crowd boos.

What a joke of a fight.

You're on the money, Nancy, it was almost as one-side as Foreman vs Frazier (1).

yep! and we know neither of those two guys could fight!

[Giancarlo]

Brian London was downright pitiful against Ali in '66.

He did nothing for two rounds while Ali mainly just enjoyed himself dancing around.

Then, in the third round, Ali crept a little closer, London froze awkwardly in a corner, Ali threw a very fancy looking flurry of punches. (most of which did nothing, haha) London falls down, takes the count, and the crowd boos.

What a joke of a fight.

You're on the money, Nancy, it was almost as one-side as Foreman vs Frazier (1).

yep! and we know neither of those two guys could fight!

Just goes to show even if one guy does all the catching it doesn't mean he is a stiff.

Now, who's gonna explain that to Nancy and Rufus?

[Flump]

How bad was Brian London,

In 'open sparring sessions' before the Championship Fight, at the Holiday Camp near Blackpool.

He was getting 'Rattled' by C-Rated sparring partners.

But Brian London was a character though,,,,,,,,,,as after the bout he said,
'I went at least 8-Times longer than Sonny Liston did'

Brian London has done some after dinner speaking, at one an anti-boxing type harangued him about the evils of boxing, citing Muhammad Ali's condition as an example, London's response was, "well don't blame me pal, I didn't lay a glove on him"...

[witherspoon]

Muhammad Ali, picking cherries...........



Sorry.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

They're saying Ali doesn't have long to live.

[witherspoon]

They're saying Ali doesn't have long to live.

Hope that's not true. If it is, I hope he gets a more dignified exit than Manny Steward.

(says the one who just photoshopped the great man gathering berries )

[SaadOffTheDeck]

They're saying Ali doesn't have long to live.

Hope that's not true. If it is, I hope he gets a more dignified exit than Manny Steward.

Honestly, he's lived a lot longer than I thought he would. That's a debilitating disease and he's battled it for over two decades.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was from an interview with his brother who also said he doesn't know if he'll live for a day or for months.

I don't think he and his brother are even in contact. My bad.

[SenorPipino]

Saw a photo of Ali wearing a Ravens' sweatshirt , while watching the Super Bowl at home. He actually looked much more expressive than usual. Hardly at death's door. I wonder what Rahman has against his brother these days. to make him spout nonsense. He's supposed to be in poor shape financially, so maybe the British tabloids paid him a pretty penny to .shake up the world. Shame on you Rahman. Ali employed you handsomely during his glory days, so show some gratitude.

[AngryGoon38]

Gregorio Peralta

[SenorPipino]

Gregorio Peralta

Gregorio Peralta what? Ali never fought him. However, undersized Peralta's strong showings against Foreman, using slick boxing, did convince me that Ali would win the Rumble in the Jungle. Sure, Ali didn't use traditional boxing skills in that bout, but Peralta demonstrated what a talented thinking fighter could do against George.

[SamWise72]

The fact that he calls himself Rahman ( he was born Rudi ) without the struggles that his brother suffered do to his strongly held beliefs, tells you all you need to know.

That's utterly ridiculous.

Oh really?

Do tell us all about Rudi ( Rahman ) having his ability to travel abroad taken away from him. How about a jail sentence hanging over his head, or his livelihood taken away from him.

I'm sure i'm not the only one waiting for you to enlighten us.

They both changed their names, and they both suffered in line with their respective public profiles. I don't know much about Rahman/Rudi, but not being punished for changing his name doesn't make him a bad person, even if other things do.

[p4p1]

Just read the article is there any truth to much of it? Not just the part about Ali's health.

[scallum]

The fact that he calls himself Rahman ( he was born Rudi ) without the struggles that his brother suffered due to his strongly held beliefs, tells you all you need to know.

Wth!