Herol Graham vs Roy Jones

[SamWise72]

Prime for prime, how would this have gone? Neither had met anyone like the other (not sure anyone like either has really existed!). Would Herol's reflexes and head movement evade Roy's sizzling shots? Would Graham's equally laser fast hands have got their counters off? Roy was stronger and hit harder, and I guess that would be the difference, but I'd love to see it.

[misterpunch]

jones split decision

[SamWise72]

I've rewatched a fair bit of Herol over the weekend, and my sense that Jones was stronger is gone. He certainly hits harder, but Herol was just as fast, and more evasive. I see this as Jones throwing the more leather and going forward, and Herol, if he was smart, on the back foot, moving his head a lot and picking Jones off with the right jab. A southpaw with that kind of speed just never happened for Jones, and I think he'd be confused. I wonder whether he'd become a little wild, and there might be a chance for Graham to land a big shot, but I still lean towards Jones in a close one.

[gilgamesh]

"Oh No!!! That's what we were worried about...Oh he won't get up from that"

Roy Jones stops Herol Graham later in the fight.

[BoxBuzz]

Also, I've wondered if Jones "developed" his KO susceptiblity after his first KO...or if he always was fragile jowled.

I'm suspecting Tarver may have changed the equation. So if Roy's jaw was a bit more firm in his early goings, it makes it more difficult for Graham. I'd give Jones a pretty firm benefit of the doubt. Jones is beginning to get too much disrespect due to his post Tarver-II efforts.

[gilgamesh]

Also, I've wondered if Jones "developed" his KO susceptiblity after his first KO...or if he always was fragile jowled.

I'm suspecting Tarver may have changed the equation. So if Roy's jaw was a bit more firm in his early goings, it makes it more difficult for Graham. I'd give Jones a pretty firm benefit of the doubt. Jones is beginning to get too much disrespect due to his post Tarver-II efforts.

Case in point people are picking it to be an even fight with Jones against a never was.

[dr_devious]

Herol Graham wasnt a "never was", he was an exceptionally talented boxer who narrowly missed out on winning a world title. Matching a peak Mike McCallum shows what a top level operator he was. Thats not to say he gets the job done against Roy Jones, he wouldnt

[gilgamesh]

He never won a title though, that's what I meant by never was. I know he was talented I've seen him fight, but he wouldn't be able to beat Jones, and I'm kinda surprised anybody things he would've been able to.

[SamWise72]

I lean towards Roy winning it, but the reason I think Herol would make it competitive is because he had a very different toolkit to anyone else Roy faced. Who did Roy ever fight that was close to as fast as him (you can ask the same as Herol, obviously)? How did he fight who was as good on the back foot as Herol? I still see Roy winning it, but a bloke who took McCallum to the wire, and arguably should have won isn't going to get blown away. I think the Jackson KO makes people think Herol was chinny, but Jackson was the hardest puncher on the planet. Anyone less that 200lbs was going out to that shot.

[Ezzard]

Coming in as a big underdog will help Graham a lot. Roy liked to not engage for large parts of a fight and then explode when the time was right for him.

But this isn’t going to be effective here. Roy will have to go looking for him.

Roy punched a lot harder but at 160 wasn’t fully seasoned. And take his juice away and who really knows…

I’d expect Jones to win a 12 round decision and never accept a facebook friend request from Herol.

[SamWise72]

........ never accept a facebook friend request from Herol.

Thanks for the tip! Why's that?

[Ezzard]

........ never accept a facebook friend request from Herol.

Thanks for the tip! Why's that?

Because 12 rounds with Herol Graham would be as frustrating a night as any boxer could wish for (or not wish for)…

Herol’s style didn’t make for friendships with his opponents…

[SamWise72]

Agreed. The president of the "who needs him" club, as Harry had it. I thought you had some actual Herol/Facebook nightmare story to go with the comment

[Ezzard]

Agreed. The president of the "who needs him" club, as Harry had it. I thought you had some actual Herol/Facebook nightmare story to go with the comment

Mate if I ever have any boxing insider news or info I’m bragging about it to anyone who will listen, trust me…

I only need to hear the whisper of a rumour and I’m giving it out like it’s the gospel according to Steve Bunce.

[SamWise72]

I read the "never accept a friend request" as being separate from the bit about Roy Jones. Comprehension fail on my part.

[SamWise72]

I just rewatched Jones-Toney, and I have to say that the best Herol would have beaten Toney handily that night, and given Jones a much harder fight. Toney is, to my mind, Jones' greatest win, but Toney's style was very much unsuitable; a counterpuncher against someone with Jones' hand and foot speed was always going to have a hard time. Jones had all the time in the world to get set, because Toney was waiting for him to come. Against Herol, the rhythm is gonna be broken up, he's going to be flicking in jabs and 1-2s from unexpected angles, and his head's not going to be where Jones thinks it will be. I really think it's a squeaker.

[coghaugen11]

Reggie Johnson was a fast southpaw. Not as fast as Hero though.

[dr_devious]

Who did Herol ever beat that was remotely near Jones' level? The best fighters he met (Kalambay, McCallum and Jackson) all beat him

[SamWise72]

I don't know that I agree. He absolutely beat Kalambay in the second fight, that was a hometown decision. It's the squeaker against McCallum that makes me wonder; he was an ATG, and you can make an argument that Herol won that one. (hard to argue with the Jackson loss!) Bear in mind, I'm not suggesting here that Herol would beat Jones, but that he would give him a test of a sort that Jones never had.

[dr_devious]

Kalambay was over the hill in 1992. Herol's best performance was against McCallum, he did prove himself as a very high calibre fighter in this one. I think Jones' combination of speed and power would be just too much for Herol, who might be able to cause problems for a few rounds but when Jones lands I think Herol's in hot water.

[Bricks]

Sam you certainly arent so wise with your gerbil hard on.

Lol when did rjj face anyone as fast as herol?

how about j Toney? A man light years more talented and faster at 160 than herol.

Bottom line Thu was a freak of nature at 160-168 whilst gerbil was a top class unorthodox boxer.any man who more or less drew with McCollum and split 2 with kalambay was Damn
good just not great or very good

[bollox]

Since Herol lost most of the important fights of his career I just can't see how he'd win this one

[Ezzard]

Sam you certainly arent so wise with your gerbil hard on.

Lol when did rjj face anyone as fast as herol?

how about j Toney? A man light years more talented and faster at 160 than herol.

Bottom line Thu was a freak of nature at 160-168 whilst gerbil was a top class unorthodox boxer.any man who more or less drew with McCollum and split 2 with kalambay was Damn
good just not great or very good

Do you know what a light year is?

Just askin’….

Roy fought Toney’s fat evil twin. After beating Nunn the real Toney went off-grid to live rent-free in a building rented strictly to whites, in a section of the basement that was shut off and forgotten during the nineteenth century. He has over a 1000 light bulbs down there.

[SamWise72]

Sam you certainly arent so wise with your gerbil hard on.

Lol when did rjj face anyone as fast as herol?

how about j Toney? A man light years more talented and faster at 160 than herol.

Bottom line Thu was a freak of nature at 160-168 whilst gerbil was a top class unorthodox boxer.any man who more or less drew with McCollum and split 2 with kalambay was Damn
good just not great or very good

Wow, that was unneccesary. Toney was not as fast as Herol. A better fighter overall? Certainly he was more successful, but ultimately, his style was a good one for Roy, because he stood off and waited to counter. Roy had time to get set, and was too fast for Toney to counter. I too think Herol would lose, but I'd like to see how Roy solved the puzzle, which was, I believe, a different one than he ever had to.

[Bricks]

I know what a light year is wizard.do u know what literalism is? Or being pedantic? Anyone who thinks herol Graham was something so different to bemused Roy Jones June at his peak is a desperate individual