Best at Welter since Leonard-Hearns

[Ezzard]

Tried to put together a list of welters since Leonard and Hearns went north.

Not easy…

I drew up a list of candidates and based much of it on their best wins…didn’t really rate wins over guys moving up unless the guy moving up was on the original list…

Hard though because there’s a lot of disputed decisions.

1. Don Curry
2. Oscar De La Hoya
3. Marlon Starling
4. Felix Trinidad
5. Pernell Whittaker
6. Lloyd Honeyghan
7. Mark Breland
8. Manny Pac
9. Floyd Mayweather
10. Shane Moseley

[SamWise72]

Curry #1? Hard to justify, I'd say. Don't think he'd get near Whittaker, for one. The only wins on his welter record that really impresses me are Starling and McCrory, though I seem to recall Diaz was taken pretty seriously at the time.

[Ezzard]

2 wins over Starling though Sam. That trumps 2 wins over McGirt.

I don’t recall them being disputed, though they were close fights. Think one of them was a SD.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Breland over Manny & Floyd is pretty crazy.

Whitaker did more than beat McGirt. He beat Chavez & Oscar too.

[Ezzard]

Breland over Manny & Floyd is pretty crazy.

Whitaker did more than beat McGirt. He beat Chavez & Oscar too.

Chavez doesn’t count as he was never a welter… (I say he doesn’t count…I just mean I don’t count him in this thread, that’s all). And DLH…some think Pernell won it others think DLH. It’s up for debate among most.

Breland smashed Honeyghan and got a draw with Starling (Honeyghan was not the same man but it was still a wipe out…and Starling was not the most motivated that night…but even so).

Manny and Floyd mostly beat guys moving up too.

[SamWise72]

I'll never get used to this way of comparing fighters. To my mind, in the ring, Curry is a relative cakewalk for Whittaker, hence I rate Whittaker the better fighter.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Breland over Manny & Floyd is pretty crazy.

Whitaker did more than beat McGirt. He beat Chavez & Oscar too.

Chavez doesn’t count as he was never a welter… (I say he doesn’t count…I just mean I don’t count him in this thread, that’s all). And DLH…some think Pernell won it others think DLH. It’s up for debate among most.

Breland smashed Honeyghan and got a draw with Starling (Honeyghan was not the same man but it was still a wipe out…and Starling was not the most motivated that night…but even so).

Manny and Floyd mostly beat guys moving up too.

I'd rate Shane over Oscar. He beat him when they were both at their best. Whitaker wiped out Goldy on my card.

Floyd & Manny mostly beat guys bigger than they are. Ortiz outweighed Floyd by 15 pounds.

Chavez should certainly count.

[Dart340]

I'm in a select club, probably, in believing that Donald Curry in his prime would be even money against SRL and would beat Hearns similarly to how Leonard did. Granted, his prime was only a couple of years but I thought he was amazingly talented. I can't see a bloated Whitaker with a nose full of toot outboxing him. A prime Whitaker had his hands full with Freddie Pendleton.

[dr_devious]

Hearns would crack Don Curry like an egg

[Rover]

Hearns would crack Don Curry like an egg

Yep. Same with SRL.

[elmersalsa]

It's hard to imagine that since Leonard, Duran and Hearns, there have not been a great welterweight. The closest to me, was Donald Curry, but his chin was much more suspect than the one Hearns had.

I cannot see a welterweight today beating Donald Curry. That is including the greats Floyd Mayweather, Jr and Manny Pacquiao.

[elmersalsa]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

[Rover]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

Mayweather>Palomino.
Mayweather>Cuevas.

[Jpreisser]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

[Rover]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

I'd take Oscar, Tito and Whitaker over the "exceptional" Cuevas and Palomino also.

[Nile4000]

Curry, even with that suspect chin.

[MEISINGER]

curry was an unbelievable welterweight champion.
he had a short reign but spectacular skills

he gets my vote

[elmersalsa]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

Pernell Whitaker was not a welterweight great.
Felix "Tito" Trinidad nor Oscar De La Hoya were nothing great to be awed about. They were just "superstars" in a weak era.

Pacman would get crushed by a Pipino Cuevas or Carlos Palomino. He is not a real welterweight.
Pretty Boy would be a harder test, but I don't see him dominating those guys of the past at welter.

[elmersalsa]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

I'd take Oscar, Tito and Whitaker over the "exceptional" Cuevas and Palomino also.

They would get KO'd by those guys. Those guys (Oscar, Tito nor Sweet Pea) were not that good at welterweight.

[elmersalsa]

Whitaker nor Tito nor DLH were not exceptional. Good, but not exceptional.

[Rover]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

Pernell Whitaker was not a welterweight great.
Felix "Tito" Trinidad nor Oscar De La Hoya were nothing great to be awed about. They were just "superstars" in a weak era.

Pacman would get crushed by a Pipino Cuevas or Carlos Palomino. He is not a real welterweight.
Pretty Boy would be a harder test, but I don't see him dominating those guys of the past at welter.

Cuevas and Palomino weren't great fighters. I'd favor McGirt to outbox Palomino. (I bring that up only because someone posted a thread on that fight recently.)

[Rover]

Whitaker nor Tito nor DLH were not exceptional. Good, but not exceptional.

Cuevas and Palomino were not exceptional.

[Rover]

I mean, almost every decade had an exceptional welterweight.

If we go to the 1940s: Sugar Ray Robinson, Kid Gavilan and Billy Graham
1950s: Carmen Basilio, Gil Turner and Johnny Saxton
1960s: Emile Griffith, Gaspar Ortega and Luis Manuel Rodriguez
1970s: Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles, Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Palomino and Wilfred Benitez
1980s: Roberto Duran, Sugar Ray Leonard, Donald Curry and Thomas Hearns

Now the 1990s? who?
the 2000s? who?
this decade? who?

That is telling me that boxing talent is watering down big time. I don't see no welterweight today beating the likes of those guys.

Funny how you call Benitez "exceptional" at welter in the 70s but don't call Leonard "exceptional" there, considering he stopped Benitez...in the 70s!

[Ezzard]

I'll never get used to this way of comparing fighters. To my mind, in the ring, Curry is a relative cakewalk for Whittaker, hence I rate Whittaker the better fighter.

Sam, no argument from me on how to rate fighters. This is just a different way of looking at it.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1990`s: Whitaker, Trindad, and De La Hoya.
2000`s: There were some damn good fighters who held titles for a short period of time like, Mosley, Mayweather, and Forrest.

This era has seen Mayweather and Pacman pretty much dominate the division, with an occasional mix of some decent champions, but no one who has made an attempt at sticking there. It has been pretty weak recently. I wouldn`t go as far as saying Mayweather and Pac couldn`t beat some of the welterweights of the past though.

I'd take Oscar, Tito and Whitaker over the "exceptional" Cuevas and Palomino also.

They would get KO'd by those guys. Those guys (Oscar, Tito nor Sweet Pea) were not that good at welterweight.

Whitaker would box circles around Cuevas.