I don't know if this is the right page to post this so apologies if I've got it wrong.
My father (an extremely reliable source) used to talk about Jock McAvoy.
According to Dad, the first person whoever put gloves on Jock was my grandfather, who had fought with and boxed for the Manchester Regiment both during and after WWI. Grandad ran a boxing club in Whitworth, just outside of Rochdale.
Apparently, although Jock was born in Burnley his grandmother lived near Bacup, a town next to Whitworth. As a lad, Jock spent a lot of time with his grandmother and was bullied quite a bit so he joined the boxing club in Whitworth.
This was general knowledge locally but according to the Wiki page Jock's first experience was at Tolley's in Rochdale.
Anyone else heard/read about the Whitworth connection?
Jock McAvoy
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dr_devious
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 5349
- Joined: 29 Dec 2005, 09:19
Re: Jock McAvoy
Jock McaVoy was a tremendous fighter, kayoed the reigning MW champion Babe Risko in one round but couldnt get a re-match for the title and had to challenge LH great John Henry Lewis instead. Would be a 3 weight titlist in today's era, no sweat, as would Len Harvey
Re: Jock McAvoy
He got his ass handed to him by Thil.
Re: Jock McAvoy
I just checked Brian Hughes book "McAvoy, Portrait of a fighting legend". No precise information of McAvoys first training, but there is this: "Having no amateur experience whatsoever, his first recorded fight took place at Royston Stadium in Oldham. However, before continuing it shoud be pointed out that local legend has it that Joe Bamford did actually fight professionally on several un-licenced tournaments before actually joining Joe Tolley."
Woller
Woller
Re: Jock McAvoy
Hardly. McAvoy gave him a terrific fight but lost on points. Thil, incidentally, was an outstanding fighter and is greatly underrated today.klompton wrote:He got his ass handed to him by Thil.
Why be so negative and focus on one of his defeats? What about his many wonderful wins, not least his one-round demolition of America's reigning world middleweight champ, Babe Risko?
Imagine how far McAvoy would go today.
Re: Jock McAvoy
Because Im a big fan of Thil and agree he is underappreciated. I have the fight. Thil whipped him. He was a light heavyweight when he beat Risko who was one of the weaker champions of the division and of the era in my opinion. Thats what a lot of people stand McAvoy's reputation on which doesnt say a lot for me. McAvoy is overrated by some I feel. Harvey was better but even he gets overrated some times.
Re: Jock McAvoy
I haven't seen the film, but have read reports suggesting McAvoy gave him a good fight, although there was no disputing the decision in Thil's favour.
I don't think McAvoy or Harvey are overrated, but I do think Thil was better than both of them. In fact, for me Thil was probably the best middleweight of the 1930s.
Harvey won two out of three fights with McAvoy, but it's worth bearing in mind that McAvoy beat him when they fought at middleweight. Harvey beat McAvoy twice at light-heavy, but McAvoy was never a full-blown light heavy and gave weight away both times.
Harvey had stepped out of the middleweight class in 1933 and from then on light-heavyweight was his natural weight, whereas McAvoy was a natural middleweight who fought at light-heavyweight to get competitive fights. He still held the British middleweight title and could always make 11 stone 6lb (160lb) when asked to (you can see him defending his middleweight crown as late as 1939).
McAvoy was heavier than Risko but that's because he'd been preparing for and meeting light-heavyweights at that time. Undoubtedly a 7lb weight advantage over Risko worked in his favour, but with notice he'd have had no problem fighting Risko at 160lb and I'm confident McAvoy would have still won.
Differences of opinion aside, it's good to see someone passionate about this era. Going by what the boxing press prints nowadays, anyone would think nothing of note happened before 1960!
I don't think McAvoy or Harvey are overrated, but I do think Thil was better than both of them. In fact, for me Thil was probably the best middleweight of the 1930s.
Harvey won two out of three fights with McAvoy, but it's worth bearing in mind that McAvoy beat him when they fought at middleweight. Harvey beat McAvoy twice at light-heavy, but McAvoy was never a full-blown light heavy and gave weight away both times.
Harvey had stepped out of the middleweight class in 1933 and from then on light-heavyweight was his natural weight, whereas McAvoy was a natural middleweight who fought at light-heavyweight to get competitive fights. He still held the British middleweight title and could always make 11 stone 6lb (160lb) when asked to (you can see him defending his middleweight crown as late as 1939).
McAvoy was heavier than Risko but that's because he'd been preparing for and meeting light-heavyweights at that time. Undoubtedly a 7lb weight advantage over Risko worked in his favour, but with notice he'd have had no problem fighting Risko at 160lb and I'm confident McAvoy would have still won.
Differences of opinion aside, it's good to see someone passionate about this era. Going by what the boxing press prints nowadays, anyone would think nothing of note happened before 1960!
Re: Jock McAvoy
I agree. Didnt McAvoy and Harvey fight four times? Thil is so much fun to watch. Its a shame he was slaughtered unfairly by the press in the US because he had a really "american" style and was crowd pleasing as well. Ive got some pics of him when he was young, from the 1920s. When he still had hair he was a scary, rugged looking guy. Ive always wondered if he helped develop Cerdan because I have some footage of Cerdan training and Thil is present in it. It would make sense because they both had very similar styles which were not the typical standup european style of the era.
Re: Jock McAvoy
You're right - Boxrec confirms it was four times: they won one each at middleweight and Harvey won on both occasions at light-heavy, although as I said Harvey became a fully-fledged light-heavy whereas McAvoy was a middleweight who took on light-heavyweights.
It makes perfect sense that Thil would be a mentor to Cerdan and the same thought had crossed my mind. What we need is an English-speaking French boxing historian to tell us more.
I've seen a few pics of him with hair. My grandfather (who seldom sung the praises of any boxer) saw Thil fight in London in the late 1920s and was very impressed by him.
It makes perfect sense that Thil would be a mentor to Cerdan and the same thought had crossed my mind. What we need is an English-speaking French boxing historian to tell us more.
I've seen a few pics of him with hair. My grandfather (who seldom sung the praises of any boxer) saw Thil fight in London in the late 1920s and was very impressed by him.
Re: Jock McAvoy
I love hearing stories about the man.
An old fella used to come into my old place of work in Stockport and would tell me stories of his mate Joe Bamford. He would tell me Jock would hang around his car sales when he was an old man in his wheel chair, just passing time. To keep him amused the car dealer would take him for drives in the big American cadillacs around Manchester.
One day on one of these drives, the car dealer pulled out and cut a young bloke up. When they pulled up at the traffic lights the angry man got out of his car and stormed over to the caddilac, mistakenly going to the right hand side (forgetting it was an American car and that is where the passenger was sat) as he saw the old man sat there he was banging on the window and trying to open the door - then McAvoy calmly wound the window down and told the man he was deaf and couldn't hear, as the man leaned in to berate McAvoy - Jock let rip with a massive left hook that landed flush on the young blokes chin - leaving him crumpled on the kerb. The car dealer was just looking at Jock bemused, McAvoy didn't even pass comment on what happened ancd just said "It's on green, go"
I heard he was a nasty piece of work McAvoy, but a real tough as nails fella.
An old fella used to come into my old place of work in Stockport and would tell me stories of his mate Joe Bamford. He would tell me Jock would hang around his car sales when he was an old man in his wheel chair, just passing time. To keep him amused the car dealer would take him for drives in the big American cadillacs around Manchester.
One day on one of these drives, the car dealer pulled out and cut a young bloke up. When they pulled up at the traffic lights the angry man got out of his car and stormed over to the caddilac, mistakenly going to the right hand side (forgetting it was an American car and that is where the passenger was sat) as he saw the old man sat there he was banging on the window and trying to open the door - then McAvoy calmly wound the window down and told the man he was deaf and couldn't hear, as the man leaned in to berate McAvoy - Jock let rip with a massive left hook that landed flush on the young blokes chin - leaving him crumpled on the kerb. The car dealer was just looking at Jock bemused, McAvoy didn't even pass comment on what happened ancd just said "It's on green, go"
I heard he was a nasty piece of work McAvoy, but a real tough as nails fella.
Re: Jock McAvoy
Thanks Woller :)Woller wrote:I just checked Brian Hughes book "McAvoy, Portrait of a fighting legend". No precise information of McAvoys first training, but there is this: "Having no amateur experience whatsoever, his first recorded fight took place at Royston Stadium in Oldham. However, before continuing it shoud be pointed out that local legend has it that Joe Bamford did actually fight professionally on several un-licenced tournaments before actually joining Joe Tolley."
Woller
@rob h Loved reading your story. Similar to the stories my dad used to tell.