Tony Thompson says Drugs are Grrrrrrreat!!

[Chambers2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/boxing/21531723

Not sure what to make of this, Tony does make a decent point in "I think they should allow doping, period, because for me it's like the gun law," he told 5 live Breakfast. "Only the good guys are listening. It leaves the good guys without the guns."

Price is right in saying that "prevention is better than a cure", but the governing bodies don't seem to interested

My argument would be the fans want to see who the best boxer is, not who's got the best scientist on board, plus having boxers filling themselves with god knows what thoughout their career can't be good for long term health (admittedly I'm no expert)

[Finn]

i havent got a problem with people using peds as long as its not in a competitive sport. If joe bloggs wants to juice in the gym it doesnt harm anyone however if someone doing it in sport its cheating. If you legalise peds in sport all you are finding out is who the best cheat is.

[big lennox]

I think drugs in all sports, especially boxing, should be bannished. Boxing is dangerous enough as it is, let alone, manufacturing a way that allows people to hit harder and over longer periods of time - it is too much for the body can withstand. It is awful. I also disagree with Tony Thompsons argument that it is better that everyone should have a gun to stop the bad guys. It is madness. Given people access to guns is a recipe for disarster, the same with PEDS in oxing.

[orbtastic]

All drugs or just the "banned" ones?

[Finn]

i havent got a problem with people using peds as long as its not in a competitive sport. If joe bloggs wants to juice in the gym it doesnt harm anyone however if someone doing it in sport its cheating. If you legalise peds in sport all you are finding out is who the best cheat is.

That's incorrect. If drugs in sport are legalised, the people who chose to take them would not be cheating. That's the key point for me. Sport has to have rules or it's not sport. Participants must adhere to the rules in place. If drugs are illegal in their sport, they should not take them. If they are legal in their sport, they've got a choice to make.

I think what's important to empahasise for those who don't know a lot about this subject is that, as the saying goes, you can't turn a donkey into a racehorse. People who are shit at a particular sport will still be shit if they take drugs; people who have shit genetics will still have shit genetics if they take drugs, etc... Even if they were legal in sport some people may still choose to be clean and may still excel. I'd personally not take them but if they were legal I'd not have a problem with a competitor doing so.

The problem is if you legalise peds in a sport then you force all the competitors to either take peds or fall behind the curb. i get what your saying about making a donkey a race horse but it would still give someone who would normally be operating at a specific level an unfair edge over their rivals.

[danconnollyeire]

PED are different in boxing for the simple fact that if you hit a man, you can kill a man. If you are taking drugs to hit a man harder = more chance of death/serious damage. PED should all be punished with lifetime bans

[big lennox]

PED are different in boxing for the simple fact that if you hit a man, you can kill a man. If you are taking drugs to hit a man harder = more chance of death/serious damage. PED should all be punished with lifetime bans

Spot on. This is the bottom line.

[Jack B]

i havent got a problem with people using peds as long as its not in a competitive sport. If joe bloggs wants to juice in the gym it doesnt harm anyone however if someone doing it in sport its cheating. If you legalise peds in sport all you are finding out is who the best cheat is.

That's incorrect. If drugs in sport are legalised, the people who chose to take them would not be cheating. That's the key point for me. Sport has to have rules or it's not sport. Participants must adhere to the rules in place. If drugs are illegal in their sport, they should not take them. If they are legal in their sport, they've got a choice to make.

I think what's important to empahasise for those who don't know a lot about this subject is that, as the saying goes, you can't turn a donkey into a racehorse. People who are shit at a particular sport will still be shit if they take drugs; people who have shit genetics will still have shit genetics if they take drugs, etc... Even if they were legal in sport some people may still choose to be clean and may still excel. I'd personally not take them but if they were legal I'd not have a problem with a competitor doing so.

Macho, you seem to know your stuff, so I'll ask you..... are the PEDs spoken about (testosterone, EPO et al) just illegal in sport or is it also a criminal offence to take them? Also, does the legality of them vary from country to country, i.e. would taking certain substances be illegal in some countries but perfectly fine in others?

No particular reason for asking, just curiosity.

[Horse]

I also disagree with Tony Thompsons argument that it is better that everyone should have a gun to stop the bad guys. It is madness.

People giving away their guns so they can live at the mercy of the government and criminals is madness.

[big lennox]

I also disagree with Tony Thompsons argument that it is better that everyone should have a gun to stop the bad guys. It is madness.

People giving away their guns so they can live at the mercy of the government and criminals is madness.

Er, I think not giving criminals guns in the first place, is the solution.

[orbtastic]

Do criminals play by the rules?

[Final round]

All these tits asking the questions, answering the questions, posting the topics, replying to the topics, taking the drugs, not taking the drugs, etc, are just pawns getting shoved around the board.

So anyone discussing the topic is a tit and a manipulated pawn..? Not at all , most people are just concerned that the gentlemen's sport is being tainted by unaturally augmented boxers and morally bankrupt conmen.

[orbtastic]

Do criminals play by the rules?

No, but if you're a burglar would you risk carrying a gun and turning what would possibly be 2/3 years into 10?

That's a decision they make.

The question was more aimed at whoever said not giving criminals guns is the solution to the problem. Didn't make any sense to me, but then neither did saying ban drugs.

[Horse]

Er, I think not giving criminals guns in the first place, is the solution.

Who has been giving criminals guns?

[Dan Dares]

Er, I think not giving criminals guns in the first place, is the solution.

Who has been giving criminals guns?

You get one in a box of lucky charms.

[Finn]

Er, I think not giving criminals guns in the first place, is the solution.

Who has been giving criminals guns?

You get one in a box of lucky charms.

and with a bank account

[Final round]

All these tits asking the questions, answering the questions, posting the topics, replying to the topics, taking the drugs, not taking the drugs, etc, are just pawns getting shoved around the board.

So anyone discussing the topic is a tit and a manipulated pawn..? Not at all , most people are just concerned that the gentlemen's sport is being tainted by unaturally augmented boxers and morally bankrupt conmen.

We're all tits being suckled, mate. The companies that produce "performace enhancing drugs" have a dedicted agenda to crush the taboo and have the products legalised for use in sport and general sans prescription. The methodology is to get everybody to convince everybody that everybody is at it, on the premis that sooner or later everybody will say everybody is on it, and plugging the dyke is impossible, so level the playing field. The percentage of people cheating in sport will be no higher now than it has ever been - it's just non-participants are now discussing the issue.

Actually that's actually a pretty eye opening perspective from a side I don't see... I do get this feeling of acceptance creeping in from certain quarters.

I just don't like it.I want to see reasonably matched pugilistic gladiators (free from chemical enhancements) with skills honed in the gym and ring and diets and drills devised by savvy trainers. mano-a-mano may the best man win.

[Horse]

I think boxers and other sportspeople should be able to take whatever drugs they want, as long as they publicly declare it beforehand.

[Deserter]

The percentage of people cheating in sport will be no higher now than it has ever been - it's just non-participants are now discussing the issue.

Macho, I've agreed with most of what you've written on this thread but I'd add some nuance here in that you're probably accurate when talking about the elite level, but where I think there's been a distinct generational step-change has been the permeation of that attitude into the 'ranks', whether that's aspiring young sportsmen or even recreational participants.
Steroid use is increasingly prevalent among teenage rugby players, for example, in a way that it simply wasn't historically.
This fits with your scenario of there being a gradual push for acceptance...

[Wa1nuts]

Te majority of sportsmen / women are on peds. The ones who get caught are called cheats, but in reality theyre not cos everyone is one them. Theyre just the ones who get caught.

I don't think its too bad in boxing, but its still there I also don't think it gives a big a difference as people think, however, it does give an edge.

[Deserter]

The percentage of people cheating in sport will be no higher now than it has ever been - it's just non-participants are now discussing the issue.

Macho, I've agreed with most of what you've written on this thread but I'd add some nuance here in that you're probably accurate when talking about the elite level, but where I think there's been a distinct generational step-change has been the permeation of that attitude into the 'ranks', whether that's aspiring young sportsmen or even recreational participants.
Steroid use is increasingly prevalent among teenage rugby players, for example, in a way that it simply wasn't historically.
This fits with your scenario of there being a gradual push for acceptance...

I agree, I just didn't explain myself properly. When I said "the percentage of people cheating in sport will be no higher..." I wasn't limiting the cheating to drug use. I just meant that some people have always tried to find an edge e.g. a relative of mine playing schoolboy cricket was suspended from school for "ball tampering" about the same time as far more high profile examples were in the news in the early 90s. If drugs in sport were legalised, cheating would still happen because those inclined to take advantage would find another way of doing so. In short, there will always be cheating in sport.

[winkveron]

You should also be able to have loaded gloves.....as long as you declare it before hand

[danconnollyeire]

Te majority of sportsmen / women are on peds. The ones who get caught are called cheats, but in reality theyre not cos everyone is one them. Theyre just the ones who get caught.

I don't think its too bad in boxing, but its still there I also don't think it gives a big a difference as people think, however, it does give an edge.

Majority is an overstatement

[stujones]

I'm waiting for the posts that imply the PED ruined the careers of Shane Mosley and Fernando Vargas.

Completely agree with Winkveron (well, I am hoping that was sarcasm). PED are in many ways no different than loaded gloves. We can talk about a level playing field, but do we want more boxers ending up with dementia or blood clots cause they are now punching harder artificially.

[stujones]

Agree with what you are saying Macho. However, I not sure it should enter the mind set of any young person with an interest in the sport to say "I'm not sure if I want to do this sport so many are on PED, or wearing loaded gloves I have quite a high chance of getting killed or suffering a trauma".

Your right about training being cheating, but also with training came the evolutation of reducing the rounds and increases in safety proceedures. If more and more boxers take PED's or load gloves then we will have increasing numbers of Brain trauma - then that will result in an evolution of the safety mechanisms.... and what will it be 3 x3's being the norm? Not sure I want that.

Also, we can talk about a level playing field but by allowing PED's into the sport will it be? Some countries / cultures and individuals have more advanced knowledge of PED's that it might not be the same playing field. Yes, I am aware the same could be applied now with legal nutrition and training mechanisms, but I don't believe its quite as vast as it is with medicine and PED's.