BARRY McGUIGAN v PRINCE NASEEM HAMED

overhand_right · Post by **overhand_right** » 11 Oct 2005, 05:25

Who comes out on top in this battle of the little big men?

McGuigan won a world title and defended it several times which Naz never accomplished due to clinging to his WBOllocks belt (but obviously hung around the top a lot longer)

Both got theirs arses kicked in their last significant fights by crafty tough vets.

Both two of UKs best ever.

One still in shape and nearly 50.

One still a young man and morbidly obese.

WHO IS THE GREATEST???

Martin_H · Post by **Martin_H** » 11 Oct 2005, 05:52

That's a tough one... I think McGuigan achieved more but if they ever fought, I think Hamed would beat McGuigan.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:01

But McGuigan only defended his title twice. Hamed pretty much unified the Featherweight division but for some ridiculous boxing politics. He did win the IBF title, beat Vazquez who was the WBA champ until days before the bout and won the WBC title. Hamed achieved far more than McGuigan no question.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:04

I'm not sure I can think of any Brit at the weight, ever, who would beat a peak, fit and focused Naseem Hamed.

His slide from this peak was lengthier than people think.

Martin_H · Post by **Martin_H** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:07

nickd wrote:But McGuigan only defended his title twice. Hamed pretty much unified the Featherweight division but for some ridiculous boxing politics. He did win the IBF title, beat Vazquez who was the WBA champ until days before the bout and won the WBC title. Hamed achieved far more than McGuigan no question.

The only problem I have with that is there are so many belts nowadays that Hamed, was able to build his career and progress towards the top of the division whilst he was already a "champion". but when he finally did get to the top and fought the No.1 guy out there, he lost.

McGuigan fought the No.1 guy out there, and won.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:11

Stevie Cruz hardly rates alongside Barrera - Barry was kept away from the real danger men - Nelson for instance. I reckon a peak Naz would've blasted him out mid fight.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:17

Martin_H wrote:
nickd wrote:But McGuigan only defended his title twice. Hamed pretty much unified the Featherweight division but for some ridiculous boxing politics. He did win the IBF title, beat Vazquez who was the WBA champ until days before the bout and won the WBC title. Hamed achieved far more than McGuigan no question.
The only problem I have with that is there are so many belts nowadays that Hamed, was able to build his career and progress towards the top of the division whilst he was already a "champion". but when he finally did get to the top and fought the No.1 guy out there, he lost.

McGuigan fought the No.1 guy out there, and won.

Hamed as good as cleaned out the division and beat all the beltholders. Way more than McGuigan achieved without a doubt. People forget McGuigan had a short reign and lost his title to a very average fighter.

T.BONE · Post by **T.BONE** » 11 Oct 2005, 06:33

naz would of been to qwick to fast to much power for barry mcguian,he would of kod him inside 5 rounds make no mistake about that.mcguian is so over rated its laugh able.

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:03

i am not so sure.

I think this would have been similar to Barry's fight with Bernard Taylor.

A slick fast boxer who outboxed Barry, but couldn't keep him completeley away.

Barry cut down the ring and ate away at Taylor with bodypunches until an exhausted Taylor succumbed to a 9th round stoppage.

Hamed would have done the same. Only Barry could hit harder than some of the guys who floored Naseem. If Barry catches him, and he would, then its lights out Naz.

Do not judge Barry on the Cruz fight.

The politics in that fight stank and there has been court proceedings between Barry & Eastwood regarding a PR tour that ended with an unscheduled title fight in the middle of a Las Vegas summer afternoon.

It is also well documented Barry's water bottle went AWOL after round 10.

He was still ahead on all scorecards going into the 15th & final round but dehydration took its toll and he lost the round by a 10-7 margin thanks to 2 knock downs.

Under the right conditions and with the proper preparation Barry would have beaten Cruz out of sight.

No I think you are underestimating the Clones Cyclone. He would have beaten Naz in a late round rally and stopped him.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:09

I think McGuigan had the style/chin to beat Hamed. It would have been a corker mind.

When McGuigan was at his peak he reminded me in same ways of Paul Ingle, with better power and a better chin. Ingle gave Hamed all the trouble in the world.

BunglesFingers · Post by **BunglesFingers** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:37

Gordon wrote:i am not so sure.

I think this would have been similar to Barry's fight with Bernard Taylor.

A slick fast boxer who outboxed Barry, but couldn't keep him completeley away.

Barry cut down the ring and ate away at Taylor with bodypunches until an exhausted Taylor succumbed to a 9th round stoppage.

Hamed would have done the same. Only Barry could hit harder than some of the guys who floored Naseem. If Barry catches him, and he would, then its lights out Naz.

Do not judge Barry on the Cruz fight.

The politics in that fight stank and there has been court proceedings between Barry & Eastwood regarding a PR tour that ended with an unscheduled title fight in the middle of a Las Vegas summer afternoon.

It is also well documented Barry's water bottle went AWOL after round 10.

He was still ahead on all scorecards going into the 15th & final round but dehydration took its toll and he lost the round by a 10-7 margin thanks to 2 knock downs.

Under the right conditions and with the proper preparation Barry would have beaten Cruz out of sight.

No I think you are underestimating the Clones Cyclone. He would have beaten Naz in a late round rally and stopped him.

Good info here.

I remember watching this fight as a kid in amazement. I could never work out why they were fighting in 100+ degree heat in the bloody daytime, and Barry was from N Ireland!

Hamed and Barry at their peaks would have been a great fight and I reckon a very late stoppage either way.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:40

Gordon wrote:i am not so sure.

I think this would have been similar to Barry's fight with Bernard Taylor.

A slick fast boxer who outboxed Barry, but couldn't keep him completeley away.

Barry cut down the ring and ate away at Taylor with bodypunches until an exhausted Taylor succumbed to a 9th round stoppage.

Barry could hardly touch Taylor for the first 6 or so rounds, then Taylor suddenly quit which took most people by surprise. The American had little heart for a fight, so not a good comparison.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:51

Martin_H wrote:
nickd wrote:But McGuigan only defended his title twice. Hamed pretty much unified the Featherweight division but for some ridiculous boxing politics. He did win the IBF title, beat Vazquez who was the WBA champ until days before the bout and won the WBC title. Hamed achieved far more than McGuigan no question.
The only problem I have with that is there are so many belts nowadays that Hamed, was able to build his career and progress towards the top of the division whilst he was already a "champion". but when he finally did get to the top and fought the No.1 guy out there, he lost.

McGuigan fought the No.1 guy out there, and won.

Hamed won all the belts and was linear he was no1 not Barrera - Barrera was the 122lb ex-champ who was assumed to be past his best and vunerable after been dominated twice by Junior Jones - yet been robbed later when he faced Morales.

Barrera may have ouboxed Hamed but Hamed would never lose to Junior Jones and Paquiao

I think Hameds achievements are very underated he beat nearly everyone at 126 over a 6year period - in my book this is as good as Zoos/Hopkins achievements.

BTW I think Hamed KOs McGuigan but maybe it goes the distance. And Barry could possibly give the prince problems if he gets too cocky and then we'd have a similar action to the Kelly fight

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Oct 2005, 07:59

PN - Junior Jones I agree with, great skills but far too chinny for Hamed. He would get KO'd in a fight he'd be winning vs Hamed.

However, I think Pacquiao beats Hamed every time. He is faster than Barrera (who was fast enough), he hits harder than Barrera and his chin has looked very good vs Barrera and Morales. I think the "in and out" approach he had vs Barrera would be perfect to beat Hamed and he has the speed and power to do it.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Oct 2005, 08:01

McGuigan won his title from a champion at the end of a very long and hard career, and lost it to Stevie Cruz, who was no more than a good tough pro who was in the right place at the right time.

Hamed beat several fighters with the type of style Barry would have brought, the aggressive style would have played into Hamed's hands, and though Barry's boxing skills and defence were underrated, there is nothing I can see to suggest that he would have coped well with the elusive style and exceptional power and speed of a peak Hamed.

Peak Hamed would have given Barry a protracted pounding.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Oct 2005, 08:15

stujones wrote:PN - Junior Jones I agree with, great skills but far too chinny for Hamed. He would get KO'd in a fight he'd be winning vs Hamed.

However, I think Pacquiao beats Hamed every time. He is faster than Barrera (who was fast enough), he hits harder than Barrera and his chin has looked very good vs Barrera and Morales. I think the "in and out" approach he had vs Barrera would be perfect to beat Hamed and he has the speed and power to do it.

Barrera beat Hamed on countering and defense - Pacmans defense and countering just aren't the same. Pac would take punches from Hamed whereas Barrera didn't get tagged. Hameds power is a different level to Barreras and Morales (Hamed would ko guys in 2 that took Morales the distance) so I think Pac gets ko'd as although his chin is good hes been ko'd b4. I think he puts Hamed down first - it would have allot of kds.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 11 Oct 2005, 08:23

MightyWarrior wrote:
Gordon wrote:i am not so sure.

I think this would have been similar to Barry's fight with Bernard Taylor.

A slick fast boxer who outboxed Barry, but couldn't keep him completeley away.

Barry cut down the ring and ate away at Taylor with bodypunches until an exhausted Taylor succumbed to a 9th round stoppage.
Barry could hardly touch Taylor for the first 6 or so rounds, then Taylor suddenly quit which took most people by surprise. The American had little heart for a fight, so not a good comparison.

Plus, Naz hit rather harder than Bern-hard. Mind, those body shots that took Taylor out were absolutely gruesome. Smashed his ribs.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Oct 2005, 08:27

Gordon wrote:i am not so sure.

I think this would have been similar to Barry's fight with Bernard Taylor.

A slick fast boxer who outboxed Barry, but couldn't keep him completeley away.

Barry cut down the ring and ate away at Taylor with bodypunches until an exhausted Taylor succumbed to a 9th round stoppage.

Hamed would have done the same. Only Barry could hit harder than some of the guys who floored Naseem. If Barry catches him, and he would, then its lights out Naz.

Do not judge Barry on the Cruz fight.

The politics in that fight stank and there has been court proceedings between Barry & Eastwood regarding a PR tour that ended with an unscheduled title fight in the middle of a Las Vegas summer afternoon.

It is also well documented Barry's water bottle went AWOL after round 10.

He was still ahead on all scorecards going into the 15th & final round but dehydration took its toll and he lost the round by a 10-7 margin thanks to 2 knock downs.

Under the right conditions and with the proper preparation Barry would have beaten Cruz out of sight.

No I think you are underestimating the Clones Cyclone. He would have beaten Naz in a late round rally and stopped him.

Naz fought puncher who hit every bit as hard as McGuigan, and hit way harder than anyone Barry ever faced.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 11 Oct 2005, 09:30

Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
stujones wrote:PN - Junior Jones I agree with, great skills but far too chinny for Hamed. He would get KO'd in a fight he'd be winning vs Hamed.

However, I think Pacquiao beats Hamed every time. He is faster than Barrera (who was fast enough), he hits harder than Barrera and his chin has looked very good vs Barrera and Morales. I think the "in and out" approach he had vs Barrera would be perfect to beat Hamed and he has the speed and power to do it.
Barrera beat Hamed on countering and defense - Pacmans defense and countering just aren't the same. Pac would take punches from Hamed whereas Barrera didn't get tagged. Hameds power is a different level to Barreras and Morales (Hamed would ko guys in 2 that took Morales the distance) so I think Pac gets ko'd as although his chin is good hes been ko'd b4. I think he puts Hamed down first - it would have allot of kds.

Sadly, its all opinion because Hamed has retired - but I maintain that while Barrera beat Hamed using the strategy mentioned he would have beaten him fighting the way he did in the first and third Morales' fights.

Phenomenal-Nutrition · Post by **Phenomenal-Nutrition** » 11 Oct 2005, 10:18

stujones wrote:
Phenomenal-Nutrition wrote:
stujones wrote:PN - Junior Jones I agree with, great skills but far too chinny for Hamed. He would get KO'd in a fight he'd be winning vs Hamed.

However, I think Pacquiao beats Hamed every time. He is faster than Barrera (who was fast enough), he hits harder than Barrera and his chin has looked very good vs Barrera and Morales. I think the "in and out" approach he had vs Barrera would be perfect to beat Hamed and he has the speed and power to do it.
Barrera beat Hamed on countering and defense - Pacmans defense and countering just aren't the same. Pac would take punches from Hamed whereas Barrera didn't get tagged. Hameds power is a different level to Barreras and Morales (Hamed would ko guys in 2 that took Morales the distance) so I think Pac gets ko'd as although his chin is good hes been ko'd b4. I think he puts Hamed down first - it would have allot of kds.
Sadly, its all opinion because Hamed has retired - but I maintain that while Barrera beat Hamed using the strategy mentioned he would have beaten him fighting the way he did in the first and third Morales' fights.

If Barrera agreed with you he'd have fought that way, I doubt Barreras chin would hold in a war against Naz - not saying he wouldn't be competitive

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Oct 2005, 10:32

Naz had power is spades, no doubt about it.

Even when Barrera had him hurt in the 11th and 12th, he had far too much respect for that power to go for the stoppage, that says it all.

Barryboy · Post by **Barryboy** » 11 Oct 2005, 10:55

Barrera showed the way to beat Naseem is to make him be the aggressor as he wasn't really comfortable doing that, attacking fighters play into Naz' hands however so McGuigan being just that would have to walk through some amount of heavy leather before he got his shots in (Though Barry had quite a long reach for a little guy didn't he?) I don't see McGuigan doing a Barrera and boxing off the back foot so it could be something similar to the McCullough fight with Naz coming out on top but having to go the distance cos Barry had a chin as shown late in the LaPorte fight, throw out the Cruz knockdowns they were just sheer exhaustion.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:19

MightyWarrior wrote:Barry could hardly touch Taylor for the first 6 or so rounds, then Taylor suddenly quit.

I thought Mcguigan fractured his ribs?

boxbet · Post by **boxbet** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:25

more importantly , who would win if they boxed now? the nearly 50 year old or the obese fat man? right now at this moment in time if they fought barry would win.

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:32

Deserter wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Barry could hardly touch Taylor for the first 6 or so rounds, then Taylor suddenly quit.
I thought Mcguigan fractured his ribs?

He did, as I've said above. MW has one high pain threshold, though. 8)