BARRY McGUIGAN v PRINCE NASEEM HAMED

dondada · Post by **dondada** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:33

boxbet wrote:more importantly , who would win if they boxed now? the nearly 50 year old or the obese fat man? right now at this moment in time if they fought barry would win.

This is one of the few PPV events I would like to see!

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:42

Iv recently bought Naz' career on DVD and my god the change in him when he left Ingle was bloody immediate.

The Naz who fought Kelley, Robinson, Badillo was 100times better than the one who fought Ingle, Barerra and Calvo IMO.

If the 2 fought I would pick Naz.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:44

Which was the last fight where Ingle was his trainer?

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » 11 Oct 2005, 11:46

jamesmcdonnell wrote:Which was the last fight where Ingle was his trainer?

I think he split with Ingle before his fight with Ingle ironically enough.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 11 Oct 2005, 12:11

Ian 'Mr' McNeilly wrote:
Deserter wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Barry could hardly touch Taylor for the first 6 or so rounds, then Taylor suddenly quit.
I thought Mcguigan fractured his ribs?
He did, as I've said above. MW has one high pain threshold, though. 8)

Maybe he did, can't remember - maybe Bernie had glass ribs, cause I don't recall Barry landing too often until the last round or two.
Old Pedroza went 15 rounds and don't think he changed his expression once.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 11 Oct 2005, 12:15

I think some people have forgotten just how good Barry McGuigan was. He thoroughly dominated a still very good Eusebio Pedroza, and in his defense against Bernard Taylor, he worked his fight plan to perfection. In case anyone's forgotten, in 1985 Bernard Taylor was considered by many ring analysts to have had the fastest pair of hands in the sport. In fact, I still remember one boxing magazine's prediction for the fight. The writer stated that if Taylor trades with McGuigan, he'll lose by mid round stoppage, but then added that Taylor hasen't gone unbeaten in 34 bouts by fighting the other guy's fight. Taylor he said will box and use his lateral movement and blinding handspeed to win a clear cut UD. When the two met in the King's Hall in Belfast it appeared for most of the fight that Taylor had clearly outboxed McGuigan, but Barry refused to box with Taylor, instead he dug wicked hooks to Taylor's ribs at every possible opportunity, and then almost anti climactically, the fight was suddenly over when the BT Express failed to come out for the 9th round. Later it was revealed that McGuigan's relentless body attack carried out against a speedster who was outboxing him, had broken a couple of his opponents ribs.

The Cruz fight was really a disappointment, because McGuigan was ridiculously led into a trap. And amazingly had he been dropped only once instead of twice in the final round, the bout probably ends in a MD Draw. In an indoor arena McGuigan probably stops Cruz inside of 10. Not too surprisingly Cruz was knocked out in his first title defense.

So against Hamed, I think Barry immediately establishes his body attack while using lots of head movement. The crunching body shots cut down on Hamed's volume of punches, but his good chin allows him to last the distance as McGuigan wins something like 9-5-1 on rounds.

Rubio MHS · Post by **Rubio MHS** » 11 Oct 2005, 12:23

naz was a fraud. mcguigan early ko.

states · Post by **states** » 11 Oct 2005, 12:50

I'd have to favour the best of Naz over the best of Barry. It's easy to forget just how good Hamed looked on the way up. Great fight though.

Wrists · Post by **Wrists** » 11 Oct 2005, 12:56

Interesting thread:

In my eyes (and i didn't see McGuigan fight that much) a peak Naz, the Naz of the badillo, robinson and Kelley fights KO's Barry in the middle rounds.

The fighter who fought Sanchez, Barrera still wins but by a close decision.

I do think Naz's achievements are criminally underplayed and more is made of the 'arrogance' and 'bravado' than the actual fighter.

behind that is a tough little shit who beat everyone apart from barrera - thats not a crime and we should look at that rather than slag off someone who was great to watch and acheieved a lot although sadly not as much as he should.

he has money a great family good luck to him I say

Regards

kevin aka wrists

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 11 Oct 2005, 13:24

MightyWarrior wrote:Old Pedroza went 15 rounds and don't think he changed his expression once.

You are joking?! I've still got the McGuigan vs Pedroza fight on video and Pedroza took an awful pounding in the later rounds. His legs went on numerous occasions and he was clearly in a lot of pain. I've rarely seen fighters display the courage Pedroza did on that night.

ILikeBeer · Post by **ILikeBeer** » 11 Oct 2005, 13:55

Well, Naz has the weight.

cslater · Post by **cslater** » 11 Oct 2005, 20:22

naz v barrera was really disappointing. If he'd actually gone in with a decent gameplan to beat Barrera things could have been different. It seemed as though he was just expecting to blast away what he seemed to think was a shopworn super-bantam (it was easy to read Morales 1 as a last hurrah).

I remember for a time in the mid to late nineties Brendan Ingle directed a lot of flak Mcguigan's way. Barry was late thirties and I think they were almost hoping he'd make a comeback to meet Naz. Never on the cards although I remember Barry never used to hit bags in training around that period in case he got the taste for it again...

Naz was pretty special though really look at how they threw him in deep when he was young. Would Barry have been too easy to hit? Guess he would have taken that on board and changed styles a bit. May have been a bit like Hatton Tszyu... a really top quality pressure fighter who would have tailored his approach for a big puncher.

dbf · Post by **dbf** » 11 Oct 2005, 20:43

[quote="Seamus"]I think some people have forgotten just how good Barry McGuigan was. He thoroughly dominated a still very good Eusebio Pedroza, and in his defense against Bernard Taylor, he worked his fight plan to perfection. In case anyone's forgotten, in 1985 Bernard Taylor was considered by many ring analysts to have had the fastest pair of hands in the sport. In fact, I still remember one boxing magazine's prediction for the fight. The writer stated that if Taylor trades with McGuigan, he'll lose by mid round stoppage, but then added that Taylor hasen't gone unbeaten in 34 bouts by fighting the other guy's fight. Taylor he said will box and use his lateral movement and blinding handspeed to win a clear cut UD. When the two met in the King's Hall in Belfast it appeared for most of the fight that Taylor had clearly outboxed McGuigan, but Barry refused to box with Taylor, instead he dug wicked hooks to Taylor's ribs at every possible opportunity, and then almost anti climactically, the fight was suddenly over when the BT Express failed to come out for the 9th round. Later it was revealed that McGuigan's relentless body attack carried out against a speedster who was outboxing him, had broken a couple of his opponents ribs.
quote]

great post thanks. not to dter from the topic at hand, but anyone see any \thing like this happening if mayweather were to fight hatton? Also Bazza v Nazza got me thinking about witter v hatton......anyways, didnt mean to drift off topic

Gordon · Post by **Gordon** » 12 Oct 2005, 04:57

Thanks Seamus

I was beginning to doubt myself there.

As much as I liked Naz as a fighter I still believe Barry would have taken him.

It all to easy to forget just how good someone from another era was.

Just like youngsters today forget how the early Tyson was. People remember Barry from the Cruz fight or the Jim McDonnell fight.

The way he punished Pedroza and Taylor are just two examples.

Pedroza was one of the All Time greatest Featherweights

And as Seamus pointed out Taylor had just come off an almost perfect 400 bout amateur career and was hailed as the next golden boy of US boxing. According to the experts we were looking at the new champion.

Yes he outboxed McGuigan, but Barry stuck to his fight plan and dug hard into the body. He didn't give Taylor space to move, he cut the ring down and got right under his nose and kept pounding until Taylor quit.

One of the unsung heroes of our time is Barry McGuigan

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 Oct 2005, 04:58

Deserter wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Old Pedroza went 15 rounds and don't think he changed his expression once.
You are joking?! I've still got the McGuigan vs Pedroza fight on video and Pedroza took an awful pounding in the later rounds. His legs went on numerous occasions and he was clearly in a lot of pain. I've rarely seen fighters display the courage Pedroza did on that night.

True, but he never changed his expression! I was ringside for that one BTW, right next to Big Frank - what a night it was - 25,000 singing Irish fans at QPR.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 12 Oct 2005, 05:10

MightyWarrior wrote:
Deserter wrote:
MightyWarrior wrote:Old Pedroza went 15 rounds and don't think he changed his expression once.
You are joking?! I've still got the McGuigan vs Pedroza fight on video and Pedroza took an awful pounding in the later rounds. His legs went on numerous occasions and he was clearly in a lot of pain. I've rarely seen fighters display the courage Pedroza did on that night.
True, but he never changed his expression! I was ringside for that one BTW, right next to Big Frank - what a night it was - 25,000 singing Irish fans at QPR.

I see what you mean. Though of course I now hate you - ringside for that you jammy git?!

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 12 Oct 2005, 05:18

Not even worth a discussion. Naz would have battered a peak McGuigan. McGuigan was very, very overrated in my book. Lost to an average fighter and didn't even want a rematch. He was famous for his Irish peace stance as much as his actual ring antics. Whereas Naz swept through all before him until he beat himself against Barrerra. Naz would have beaten Barrera at his peak without a doubt.

McGuigan had a short reign whereas Naz won all the belts (In theory)
Not a race for me it's Naz all day long and twice on Sunday's.

Naz is by a long long way tyhe best this country has ever produced in terms of skill and power. Only John Conteh and Dave Chandley came close.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Oct 2005, 06:01

Gordon wrote:Thanks Seamus

I was beginning to doubt myself there.

As much as I liked Naz as a fighter I still believe Barry would have taken him.

It all to easy to forget just how good someone from another era was.

Just like youngsters today forget how the early Tyson was. People remember Barry from the Cruz fight or the Jim McDonnell fight.

The way he punished Pedroza and Taylor are just two examples.

Pedroza was one of the All Time greatest Featherweights

And as Seamus pointed out Taylor had just come off an almost perfect 400 bout amateur career and was hailed as the next golden boy of US boxing. According to the experts we were looking at the new champion.

Yes he outboxed McGuigan, but Barry stuck to his fight plan and dug hard into the body. He didn't give Taylor space to move, he cut the ring down and got right under his nose and kept pounding until Taylor quit.

One of the unsung heroes of our time is Barry McGuigan

How in fucks name is he an 'unsung hero' he's in the IBHOF, based more on fame than achievement in my opinion, as he was a relatively minor footnote in the history of the division. Nothing against Barry at all, he was

Pedroza was clearly on the wane coming in to the McGuigan fight. His KO ratio had dropped dramatically and his fights were going longer and longer. In his prime, Pedroza was busting up his opponents regularly. He had a history of weight making problems, and had had a very long career by the time McGuigan got to him, and McGuigan was in his prime.

As for Taylor, he's not the first fighter to be heralded as the next big thing to get taken apart. There's a big difference between that and beating a genuine world champ.

Naseem lost to a future hall of famer who has gone on to establish himself as one of the pre-eminent fighters of his generation and is still a top 10 p4p'er even now. Naseem's overall record is more impressive for my money than Barry's, one loss to Barrera doesn't overturn the fact that he met nearly all of the best available competition. Let's not forget that Barry's management assiduously avoided Azumah Nelson's calling out of McGuigan.

boxingchat · Post by **boxingchat** » 12 Oct 2005, 07:21

Spot on JMD.

And he lost to your namesake too, which saved he a belting at the hands of Nelson.

Slapsie Maxie · Post by **Slapsie Maxie** » 12 Oct 2005, 07:43

The BMc who beat Juan LaPorte ( sp?) would have been the only version that could IMHO have given NH anywhere near a decent fight. I actually think that was his best performance rather than being matched well against a fading Pedroza.

Even so, I still think that he would have been on the end of a Steve Robinson style systematic beating and can see it being stopped late rounds

Slapsie

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Oct 2005, 07:43

That he did.

People underrate Naz, mainly due to the manner of his defeat against Barrera, and his failure to come back from it.

Truth is, Naz got too rich too quick and too big too quick, and it all went to his head. In his prime, he was one of the greatest fighters this country ever produced, but lacked that mentality to make the very best of his talent. It was still a great ride while it lasted, but people like to see their sporting heroes prove themselves through adversity.

Good luck to Naz, he has left the sport mentally and physically unharmed, with 17 million in the bank, and is still a young man.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Oct 2005, 07:50

Slapsie Maxie wrote:The BMc who beat Juan LaPorte ( sp?) would have been the only version that could IMHO have given NH anywhere near a decent fight. I actually think that was his best performance rather than being matched well against a fading Pedroza.

Even so, I still think that he would have been on the end of a Steve Robinson style systematic beating and can see it being stopped late rounds

Slapsie

that's exactly my thoughts. LaPorte was a good fighter, but he was certainly beatable even at his best.

MightyWarrior · Post by **MightyWarrior** » 12 Oct 2005, 11:21

LaPorte was as tough as they come, pretty much unstopable. Good puncher too, the shot he flattened Rocky Lockridge was a shocker. And Barry took his best shot, so he certainly had a good chin too.
Saw LaPorte in the recent Emile Griffith doc - Ring Of Fire. He's looking well these days, running a NY gym, and helps out Emile a lot.

But agree with the theory Naz would've landed hard and often, stopping him at some point.

And when Nelson came over to the UK, and despatched Pat Cowdell with one chilling uppercut inside a round, the Irish camp kept a very low profile.
Even when Nelson was on TV and the papers, calling McGuigen a girl ( "She's afraid of me!" ).

Can't blame them for giving the real Mighty Warrior a miss though, that was excellent management.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Oct 2005, 11:52

Yes I remember him saying something along the lines of.

"I will make Mageeegaan my wooomaan."

Phoenix · Post by **Phoenix** » 13 Oct 2005, 08:27

Hamed wins. I'd take the 95/96 version of Hamed over pretty much any feather from Mcguigans time onwards. Maybe not a prime Erik Morales (not sure thats a good matchup for Hamed). Would take that Naz over Barrera and Pacman though in a heartbeat.

IMO the Kelley fight was the start of the decline, he was terrrible in that fight until the last part of the third round when he finally found some rhythm. Kinda blew hot and cold from there onwards, looked ok against Vasquez, crap against Soto, ok against Mcullough, great against Bungu, crap against Sanchez, etc...

As I recall Hamed/Barrera was first being put together back in 1996, now that would have been a much better fight than the 2001 version.

The opinion that Hamed finally 'stepped up' against Barrera is totally incorrect. ONE THING that nobody seems to mention is from say 96/97 onwards Hamed was considered 'The Man' @ 126. Why did it take until 2001 for Barrera to leave 122 and step up to feather? Why wait 5 years to challenge The Man? Of course, revisionist history will tell you its the other way round, the featherweight champ 'ducked' a jr feather for 5 years...