Lennox Lewis and David Price

[SamWise72]

I just rewatched Lewis/Mason for the first time since the fight actually happened, and found it interesting. I remembered seeing the second half of the fight, and Lewis looking very amateurish. Watching it now, he looked really silky for 2 rounds, but as Mason got into his stride, Lewis tired quickly, abandoned any defence, struggled to lift his arms, and got really tagged at least once. Had Mason not had that terrible swelling, you have to suspect that a bloke I considered a couple of steps short of world title class would have taken Lewis into the deep water, and had a fair chance to win it.

What interested me is that they were at a very similar stage of their careers. Lewis, in his 15th fight, had won the European title in his previous fight, and was taking his first step against a world level operator (Jean Chanet was never that). Price, in his 16th fight, had won the British title two fights before, and was also taking his first step against a world level operator (I don't believe Audley or Skelton have ever really been taken seriously at that level either).

Knowing what we know about the fact that Lewis could be knocked out, taking into account his total lack of defence from about the 3rd round on, and that Mason could punch like a mule, it's far from impossible to believe that Lewis might have got cold-cocked. Had he done so, would he have been dismissed in the way Price is being dismissed now? I have to suspect he would, given that people wrote him off after the McCall loss in his 3rd defence of the title as a "never was who won't make it".

Given that Lewis now features in many pundits top 10 heavies of all time, and is not unusual in the top 5, is it maybe too early to write off Price?

[lillywhite14]

It's too many ifs and buts.

Lewis didn't get cold-cocked against Mason. Had he done, then maybe he would have been written off. As it stands he worked on Mason's eye, the reason why it swelled, and won the fight. He took a few heavy shots in that fight too. Price has barely been hit since turning over.

Also Lewis was far more of a sure thing given his am pedigree and his obvious quality so maybe he wouldn't have been written off.

I don't think Price is being completely written off by everyone. What makes things worse right now is the amount of people who were completely deluded as to how good he was before Thompson. In reality he was no more of a prospect than Helenius, and that was debatable ( it isn't now of course, Helenius will be looked upon more favourably )

[Hagler2002]

Bottom line is Lewis never got sparked from a clip around the ear.

[Ratchet Exits Nu]

Lewis is nothing like Price.

Lennox ruled as an amateur beating the best of the best and ruled the World as a Pro.

Price did not as an amateur and its highly unlikely he will be anything but a belt holder..if that.

Price can win a World Title but it will be win some lose some at top level.

RIP Gary Mason.

[Ratchet Exits Nu]

Bottom line is Lewis never got sparked from a clip around the ear.

And that..

[SamWise72]

Lewis is nothing like Price.

Lennox ruled as an amateur beating the best of the best and ruled the World as a Pro.

Price did not as an amateur and its highly unlikely he will be anything but a belt holder..if that.

Price can win a World Title but it will be win some lose some at top level.

RIP Gary Mason.

I agree with this overall. I think Price can come again, and I think he can win a belt in the post Klitschko world (I'd give him half a chance against a safety first Klitschko, even), but there's no way he's the quality of Lewis. I'm still on the fence about his punch resistance; I think we saw him get hit harder by Skelton without wavering, so I think there might be something in the disorientating effects of a punch he didn't seen in an odd place. I'm just remembering all the people, American and British, writing Lewis off as having a "glass jaw" after the McCall defeat. Different overall levels notwithstanding, it smacks of the same thing. All that said, they should never allow Price to fight Pulev!

[SamWise72]

(incidentally, in the interest of full disclosure, I wrote Lewis off after the Mason fight. I didn't think he had the composure or defence to make it at the highest level. I was very wrong!)

[jamesmcdonnell]

I'm not on the fence, to quote Duke McKenzie 'This kid can't hold a shot'...sad but true. Lewis as quoted earlier took meaty shots off of Mason which would have laid Price out for a week - he just lacks the ability to take a shot, i guess it comes down to his neurological makeup, some fighters get hit hard and blink, others shut their eyes and go to sleep, others like Price turn into a gnu on roller skates, whatever it is, Price just won't cut it.

He might win a world title, but i doubt it, and if he does, it will be by boxing to orders against someone who cannot get near him.

Look through the threads, I was touting Price as the next big thing, but after that, I'm afraid his future has to be scaled back, he has lots of fantastic attributes, but to compare him to Lewis is ridiculous, Lewis was far from chinny, he may not have been the second come of Yvonne Durelle, but he could take a shot, and only two huge punches ever put him on queer street - I have no doubt he would have shrugged off the shot which laid Price on his ass. Look at the shots that Lewis walked through against Vitali - he was getting nailed often and hard, and walked through them to take it to the big man - Price would have been stopped in the 1st round.

[CiganoBoxer]

Given that Lewis now features in many pundits top 10 heavies of all time, and is not unusual in the top 5, is it maybe too early to write off Price?

Comparing Price to Lewis is stupid...the two times Lewis was KOed he was hit by a BOMB FFS!
The people that are making up threads like this are caring to ignore the fact the amount of times he was put down in the Ams,couple this by the way he was starched last weekend from first meaningful punch he has been hit with as a pro,and it was not a hard punch by any sense of the imagination btw ,even for the die hard nut hugger this should be a sign of what missing with Price.

[SamWise72]

I suppose I think that's probably right, but I want to see him hit in the way Lewis was hit; on the chin, seeing the shot coming. I appreciate that those who've seen him in the amateurs may be fully convinced of that already. Probably I should look up the first pro fight, where he got turned into Bambi.

[lillywhite14]

He didn't get turned in to Bambi in his first fight to be fair, it just seemed to sort of stun him a touch. The shot was well after the bell. He seemed to freeze and stiffen up for a couple of seconds then walked back to hai corner. That's from memory by the way!

[lillywhite14]

Just checked and it wasn't from a shot after te bell. The ref said stop boxing and Ingleby threw a right hand on the G of boxing! Definitely stiffened Price up and he had a little bit chicken funk going on in his legs for a millisecond.

[danconnollyeire]

Off the top of my head, the Rahman and NcCall 'knock outs' were more flash knock outs. I didn't really think Lewis was chinny. He got up from both knock downs and in my opinion, if not stopped, could've continued. He took Vitali's best right hands straight on the chin. Price was floored by a shot that Thompson probably didn't even throw with any intention at all

[SamWise72]

I don't think Lewis was chinny either, but people were very quick to jump to saying it. Through to the end of his career, Americans in particular were saying he had a glass jaw. Brits had mostly adopted him by then, and didn't contribute, but at the time of the Mason fight, most this side of the pond would have been happy to call him chinny too.

[Old bones Ian]

There have been some boxers that lost fights by early knockout (inside 4 rounds) on the way up and went on to win World heavyweight titles. From the 3 main world bodies its James Douglas , Bruce Seldon, John Ruiz, James Smith .

So thats not a huge list when you think about the amount of boxers since the 60's that have fought for the world titles, there are many that have lost early by KO and gone on to challenge for the world titles, but apart from these 4 all have lost. The odds are not in Price's favour looking at the stats.

[SteveDow]

For all people say about strengthening the neck, gaining weight, blah, blah, blah, you've pretty much got what you've got in the chin department and (because I treat them, correctly, as separate things) the vestibular system department. To avoid getting dropped, you hang up your gloves. To reduce the likelihood of getting dropped you a. work on your defence, and b. make sure you see the shots coming.

If Price is 'more chinny' than Lennox and Wladimir it is even more important that he looks at how they improved from being guys written off by many as fragile (and they both were) to becoming great champions. Price will go into almost every fight with a size, reach, and power advantage. He is a good boxer. He should be able to adapt and still have an impressive career. Look back at the shot he took on Saturday. Forget about the amount of power on the shot, instead look at how he allowed himself to get into that position. It was very, very sloppy and needn't have happened.

I agree with that and that's why he (and Amir Khan) need to find defensively minded trainers who will prioritise defence and survival skills over blasting people out. It is unavoidable if Price wants to go further in the game that he'll need to be more boring.

[danconnollyeire]

For all people say about strengthening the neck, gaining weight, blah, blah, blah, you've pretty much got what you've got in the chin department and (because I treat them, correctly, as separate things) the vestibular system department. To avoid getting dropped, you hang up your gloves. To reduce the likelihood of getting dropped you a. work on your defence, and b. make sure you see the shots coming.

If Price is 'more chinny' than Lennox and Wladimir it is even more important that he looks at how they improved from being guys written off by many as fragile (and they both were) to becoming great champions. Price will go into almost every fight with a size, reach, and power advantage. He is a good boxer. He should be able to adapt and still have an impressive career. Look back at the shot he took on Saturday. Forget about the amount of power on the shot, instead look at how he allowed himself to get into that position. It was very, very sloppy and needn't have happened.

I agree with that and that's why he (and Amir Khan) need to find defensively minded trainers who will prioritise defence and survival skills over blasting people out. It is unavoidable if Price wants to go further in the game that he'll need to be more boring.

True... but surely 'any' appeal that Price has (which lets face it, doesn't go beyond Liverpool and the hardcore boxing fans) will fade if he become more boring a fighter. I know it's a must but his style is hardly exiting now!

[polecateddy]

I don't think Lewis struggled that much with Mason. It's regarded as a dominant performance. I suspect with Price it's his height working against him. Just look at the similarly tall Tim Slyvia in mma. He can often dominate with his height, reach and power, but catch him right and it's timber!

[Old bones Ian]

Gary Mason trained very hard for the Lewis fight, and had a few good moments but lost.
Tony Thompson didn't train hard for the Price fight and still won, this was a man that weighed 18lb more and had a roll of fat hanging over his shorts.

[dberry]

What's a 'flash knockout'?!

It's when you spark a 25-year-old stockbroker for trying to convince your girlfriend that, if she leaves you for him, she'll have the life she's always dreamed of.

[mullenman]

everybody in boxing new that price has a glass jaw

very good fighter to watch and he will knock allot of people out but he will also get knocked out

cant wait to watch all his fights but he is nowhere near lewis standard

[danconnollyeire]

What's a 'flash knockout'?!

A flash knock down, but the ref stops the fight

[mickey1975]

You cant compare Lennox's chin to Price's. Lennox got hit with two absolute bombs. If Price would have got caught with a huge right hand on saturday, after shipping a few decent shots, then you could put it down to one of them things. In reality he went down to a crap, half hearted punch to the back of the head and then then got up very much like Khan and Maccarinelli do, the old Bambi routine. They are the facts, choose to ignore them if you wish...
P.S in defence of Enzo, he does usually get hit with bombs too before ending up in that state and Khan has a whole lot more going on offensively.

[dberry]

What's a 'flash knockout'?!

A flash knock down, but the ref stops the fight

No, when you appear naked and unconscious on the ground.

[Old bones Ian]

What's a 'flash knockout'?!

A flash knock down, but the ref stops the fight

No, when you appear naked and unconscious on the ground.

Just like that party i went to