Cooney vs Holmes, RBR

[HomicideHenry]

Round One:

EVEN; Cooney's hooks offsets Holmes' jabs

Round Two:

HOLMES; scores a flash knockdown

Round Three:

COONEY; aggressive throughout

Round Four:

COONEY; hurts Holmes at the end of the round, was aggressor throughout

Round Five:

COONEY; higher volume of punches

Round Six:

EVEN; Holmes combinations in last 30 seconds evens out Cooney's dominance of the round

Round Seven:

COONEY; higher volume of punches

Round Eight:

COONEY; Hooks versus jabs, comes down to power punches meaning more than jabs

Round Nine:

HOLMES; Cooney in control of the round but deducted a point for a low blow

Round Ten:

EVEN; see-saw action back and forth with neither man gaining ground

Round Eleven:

HOLMES; Holmes in control of the round, Cooney gassing & deducted for low blows

Round Twelve:

HOLMES; Holmes dominates the round, Cooney gassing out

Round Thirteen:

HOLMES; Holmes dominating the round, Cooney falls, Victor Valle comes in with the towel


SCORECARD: 6 rounds Cooney, 3 rounds Holmes, 3 rounds even

[MEISINGER]

homicidehenry i am one of conneys biggest fans
and even i did not have it for cooney

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Horrendous scorecard.

[BoxBuzz]

Horrendous scorecard.

well the scorecard itself may be made of the finest material available. So I won't pass judgement.

But the info contained therein....questionable, dubious, perhaps bias, with just a hint of bizzaro.

[HomicideHenry]

My rationale is alot of times, Holmes was hurt by Cooney's punches, and Holmes would often fight flat footed, which I took as further evidence that he was weakened by Cooney's barrages. Holmes did throw a high volume of jabs, but at the end of the rounds you have to ask yourself whether hooks mean more the jabs, whether aggression means more than defense, etc. For me its a resounding yes on both parts. I think rounds 1, 5, and 8 you could have given to Holmes, but in those rounds it came down to jabs versus hooks, with Cooney coming at Holmes with hooks, while Larry was doing side stepping and countering with jabs. If you give Holmes rounds 5 and 8, then its 6-5-2 for Cooney, which maybe more likely than my original scorecard.

[BoxBuzz]

Interesting, I'll watch it again. But from my memory, Holmes was simply the boss, and in control even if some rounds were forfeited based on arrogance. I don't remember Holmes having to explain to the press the over competitive nature of the fight.

But this is all in a dim memory.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Horrendous scorecard.

well the scorecard itself may be made of the finest material available. So I won't pass judgement.

But the info contained therein....questionable, dubious, perhaps bias, with just a hint of bizzaro.

This was an easy fight to score and Holmes was absolutely dominant from the 5th round on. I don;t recall an exact score, but Gerry won 3 or 4 rounds at best. Larry was never hurt, so that "rationale" doesn't fly for me.

[Rover]

Horrendous scorecard.

[Rover]

Horrendous scorecard.

well the scorecard itself may be made of the finest material available. So I won't pass judgement.

But the info contained therein....questionable, dubious, perhaps bias, with just a hint of bizzaro.

[dempseyfire]

From recollection, Cooney won the 3rd and 4th, 10th, and maybe one other round. But more than 4 rounds is not paying attention to clean punches and ring generalship.

[RadioElRadar]

I've got:

1 - Cooney 10-9
2 - Holmes 10-8 (knock-down)
3 - Even 10-10
4 - Cooney 10-9
5 - Cooney 10-9
6 - Holmes 10-9
7 - Holmes 10-9
8 - Holmes 10-9
9 - Holmes 10-9
10 - Even 10-10
11 - Cooney 9-9 (point off for low blows)
12 - Holmes 10-9
13 - Holmes TKO

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

[Rover]

I've got:

1 - Cooney 10-9
2 - Holmes 10-8 (knock-down)
3 - Even 10-10
4 - Cooney 10-9
5 - Cooney 10-9
6 - Holmes 10-9
7 - Holmes 10-9
8 - Holmes 10-9
9 - Holmes 10-9
10 - Even 10-10
11 - Cooney 9-9 (point off for low blows)
12 - Holmes 10-9
13 - Holmes TKO

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

Cooney had 3 points taken.

[RadioElRadar]

I've got:

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

Cooney had 3 points taken.

Yeah, it says that on Boxrec and on Legendary Nights but I was never sure where - I only noticed the one in the 11th watching it on YT.

If you can tell me where I'll amend my card accordingly.

Edit: There's one in the 9th if the OP is correct (10-8 Holmes, 116-111 overall). That leaves one more.

[Rover]

I've got:

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

Cooney had 3 points taken.

Yeah, it says that on Boxrec and on Legendary Nights but I was never sure where - I only noticed the one in the 11th watching it on YT.

If you can tell me where I'll amend my card accordingly.

Edit: There's one in the 9th if the OP is correct (10-8 Holmes, 116-111 overall). That leaves one more.

Haven't seen it in years, but there were three taken for sure.

[RadioElRadar]

Haven't seen it in years, but there were three taken for sure.

Right o, 116-110. I've always been curious, for anyone who watched this fight at the time - has the racial-tensions aspect been exaggerated through the years (not sure if the hyperbole of Legendary Nights can be trusted) or was it really like that?

[Rover]

Haven't seen it in years, but there were three taken for sure.

Right o, 116-110. I've always been curious, for anyone who watched this fight at the time - has the racial-tensions aspect been exaggerated through the years (not sure if the hyperbole of Legendary Nights can be trusted) or was it really like that?

I hadn't been born yet, but I'd say it was pretty serious if they had to have separate press conferences; Jesse Jackson was brought in; and they had snipers at the fight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Haven't seen it in years, but there were three taken for sure.

Right o, 116-110. I've always been curious, for anyone who watched this fight at the time - has the racial-tensions aspect been exaggerated through the years (not sure if the hyperbole of Legendary Nights can be trusted) or was it really like that?

Yeah it has, they wanted the racial tension for the hype.

[witherspoon]

I have always wondered myself how serious the racial tensions were before this fight. Two things that stick in my mind: 1. Cooney enters the ring last, and is introduced last. 2. (if hbo is to be believed) Cooney had a hot line to the white house installed in his dressing room, in preparation for a congratulatory phone call.

Regardless of wether the hot line existed or not, Don King played up the race card and I would be surprised if it did not affect both guys. The impression I get is that Cooney was genuinely pissed about this, he seems like a very good guy.(I remember his corner man trying to motivate him on the later rounds by telling him 'America needs you!). Credit to Cooney for putting up a great performance.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was typical sports, the underdog had no chance in the world so they went with other avenues of hype. Gerry is, by all accounts I've heard, a great guy. His moniker is apt. He just could never beat a fighter the caliber of Larry Holmes. Odd how many people are desperate for him to be underrated, he was overrated during his fighting days and he probably still is.

[witherspoon]

I don't find it odd at all. A good-looking, clean imaged white guy in a sport dominated in the US(at the time) by black guys.
F¥ck, I'm not even white and I still feel the residual collective desire for Cooney to prevail.

[MEISINGER]

It was typical sports, the underdog had no chance in the world so they went with other avenues of hype. Gerry is, by all accounts I've heard, a great guy. His moniker is apt. He just could never beat a fighter the caliber of Larry Holmes. Odd how many people are desperate for him to be underrated, he was overrated during his fighting days and he probably still is.

i still to this day think cooney would of been a champion if he would
of remained focussed after holmes fight
he lost all confidence after holmes

[SaadOffTheDeck]

It was typical sports, the underdog had no chance in the world so they went with other avenues of hype. Gerry is, by all accounts I've heard, a great guy. His moniker is apt. He just could never beat a fighter the caliber of Larry Holmes. Odd how many people are desperate for him to be underrated, he was overrated during his fighting days and he probably still is.

i still to this day think cooney would of been a champion if he would
of remained focussed after holmes fight
he lost all confidence after holmes

He would have had a chance if the rumored fight with Weaver happened before Holmes. I'd definitely favor Weaver by KO, but Gerry would have had an opportunity early. I look at gerry as a poor mans Razor Ruddock.

[HomicideHenry]

Like I said it's just my two cents, it came down to (imho) whether Holmes jabs meant more than Cooney's hooks. Holmes in some of those rounds did land more punches than Cooney, but they were for the most part jabs and Holmes wasn't being viscous about it. In the technical sense, he won rounds by volume; but I've always felt if someone was trying to make a fight of it, and be the aggressor, it doesnt matter the jabs, so I edged Cooney in those rounds.

As for whether he could have been champion. I think had he taken a step or two more, prior to facing Holmes, he would have had the better chance. Cus, he was after all rated #1 in the WBA as well. The WBA had talented men as their champions, but they were the most hot and cold bunch I have ever seen in boxing. Losing titles in their maiden defenses, etc. Cooney, imho, had what it took to of beaten Weaver and Coetzee and Dokes; had he of taken on those men prior to Holmes, he would of picked up an alphabet strap, and of had experience with primed opponents, who would have taken him eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, etc rounds. That way, once he would of faced Holmes, the pressure of 'going the distance' in his mind, wouldn't of been there and he would of fought Larry harder.

All I know is, the man who fought Larry Holmes, would have flattened Michael Spinks in one round. It's just a shame that Cooney just fell to pieces like he did; he never quite stopped apologising for the defeat. Gerry Cooney, in alot of ways, brought out the best in Larry Holmes, and Larry in turn brought out the best in Gerry Cooney. I do believe I read a quote from Holmes once, where he said had Gerry fought anyone else for the title that night, he would of been heavyweight champion of the world. As it stands, there's no shame in Cooney at the peak of his powers losing to a top five ATG champion like Larry Holmes. That being said, as stated earlier, had Cooney of waited longer, and took some more steps before reaching Holmes, who knows what Cooney could of done with a 1983-1985 version of Larry.

And, for whoever asked, the fight was on the scale of racial overtones as the Johnson/Jeffries bout was. Las Vegas was covered with snipers on the roof tops to make sure nobody tried to hurt Cooney or Holmes, the press conferences before and after the match were done seperately rather than risk the winner and loser to be shot and killed, etc.

[pound per pound]

I've got:

1 - Cooney 10-9
2 - Holmes 10-8 (knock-down)
3 - Even 10-10
4 - Cooney 10-9
5 - Cooney 10-9
6 - Holmes 10-9
7 - Holmes 10-9
8 - Holmes 10-9
9 - Holmes 10-9
10 - Even 10-10
11 - Cooney 9-9 (point off for low blows)
12 - Holmes 10-9
13 - Holmes TKO

116-112 (6-3-3) Holmes after 12 - beautiful fight by Larry, no disgrace for Cooney.

Cooney had 3 points taken.

I like this card. If this was a 12 round match, I wonder how the judges would have scored it. Holmes via Split Dec?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

All I know is, the man who fought Larry Holmes, would have flattened Michael Spinks in one round.