it pains me to say

[si7dog7]

and it has probably been the title of many a thread since circa 1999
but

Boxing so desperately needs a healthy stable of US heavyweights

I know the majority of larger, taller and faster US athletes now primarily look at Baseball, Foobaaaal and Basketball - for collegiate and subsequently $$$$$$ purposes.

However, without them the heavyweight division is quite frankly deathly quiet and ..... boring? and I know we were spolit from the early sixties onwards.

Our current 2 HW champions
Can anyone, hand on heart think that either Klitschko would stand up to a Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, prime Tyson, Lewis or Holyfield. Even a motivated Bowe. IMHO Nope.
Would Wlad have been able to weather a full bloodied Ernie Shavers barrage? maybe
Ali would have PLAYED with them both
OK these are just the big names that everyone has heard of, but the depth of boxing was much greater, with a wide variety of styles

The staple style of heavyweightboxing is no longer fluid and the European style is now the rule. No other weightclass has this trait in my view, and it is because every other weightclass is influenced by the rest of the world. (The americas, far east etc)

Now it is all very well for our cousins across the pond to gloat about Bristish prospects being knocked over but my question is:

How do the USA start, once again, a production line of hungry prospective heavyweight champions?or has that day been and gone.

Is there an answer, or will we be subject to more dross from the stadia in Germany featuring more seven foot monsters plodding forward and doing well, not very much. Hard men but no real panache.
Or course I support all GB and Irish boxers at whatever weight, and in terms of the big men I want them all to do well. Should my prayers be answered and the style of boxing changes once more amongst the heavies, then only our Mr Haye would be armed with the tools to be competitive.

This is not an anti Wlad of Vitaly rant, as I think they conduct themselves with integrity and are a credit to themselves and their countries and fans - but the heavyweight division used to be the one that everyone could get excited about. Sadly it has been a very long time since we could say that.

[Quixall]

Good post.

I too have been saying this for a while now and get knocked back everytime i suggest that the heavyweight division is dire. People say that the heavyweight division has becoem more international over the last 20 years or so and maybe that is true, but the quality has dropped significantly. I totally agree with what you are saying about the "European style" being dominant. Some of the guys that Tyson dropped for fun would be ruling the division these days. The Klitschko's look good because they are essentially fighting poor quality fighters in every fight. They would have held their own to a degree in any era because of their size and athleticism, but the hype surrounding those two big lumps always makes me laugh. Comparing Holyfield vs Lewis in an American auditorium to Wladimir vs his latest fat useless lump in some German arena doesn't even begin to compare. The heavyweight division is effectively finished. When people disagree, i point to the fact that average docile heavyweights like Fury are talked about as future champions or title challengers. Look at Chisora. A pretty basic fighter any day of the week and yet he got a shot off the back of gaining a bad decision over a wooden plank of a fighter. David Haye caused a stir because of his style, personality and for the most part his knock outs. When the Klitschko's do finally leave the scene, then the bone will really have run dry and there will be a huge empty space that cannot be filled by any of the current crop of heavyweights.

[Dixonian]

Yeah we could certainly do with a good bunch of American heavies. Do miss the big fights at Madison or Vegas. And the pre-fight banter/trash talk.

Not sure which of the guys Tyson dropped for fun would be ruling the heavyweight division now, however. Berbick? He could barely beat an Ali with parkinsons.

[Quixall]

Yeah we could certainly do with a good bunch of American heavies. Do miss the big fights at Madison or Vegas. And the pre-fight banter/trash talk.

Not sure which of the guys Tyson dropped for fun would be ruling the heavyweight division now, however. Berbick? He could barely beat an Ali with parkinsons.

I would say Berbick, Biggs, Thomas, Tucker, Bruno, Smith as a an example, though Tucker and Smith did go the distance with Tyson.

[lillywhite14]

Shame Wlad isn't blonde, blue eyed, called Kurt and was born in Noo Jwersey. The heavyweight division would be alive and kicking and he would be worth about £50m more.

[Quixall]

Shame Wlad isn't blonde, blue eyed, called Kurt and was born in Noo Jwersey. The heavyweight division would be alive and kicking and he would be worth about £50m more.

It always takes more than one good fighter to make a division.

[Chris W 1982]

Around 1996, scientists from a leading American institution actually froze Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, and Mike Tyson. The guys you watched after this date were hired from "Famous Faces", a leading celebrity lookalike company that operates out of Providence, Rhode Island.

Lennox Lewis really unified the heavyweight title against a banker from Maine named Dwayne Phillips
Danny Williams defeated an unemployed plasterer called Roger "The Trowel" Proctor in Louisville, Kentucky during the long, hot summer of 2004
And the man repeatedly hitting Andrew Golota in his Polish pickles was actually a woman who goes by the name of Glenda Jackson

Any time now, the powers that be including HBO, Al Haymon, and the WBC, will make their way to the lab currently housing the heavyweight legend and release them back into the universal rankings.

Make yourself a bunker people. Doomsday is upon us.

[Quixall]

Around 1996, scientists from a leading American institution actually froze Riddick Bowe, Evander Holyfield, and Mike Tyson. The guys you watched after this date were hired from "Famous Faces", a leading celebrity lookalike company that operates out of Providence, Rhode Island.

Lennox Lewis really unified the heavyweight title against a banker from Maine named Dwayne Phillips
Danny Williams defeated an unemployed plasterer called Roger "The Trowel" Proctor in Louisville, Kentucky during the long, hot summer of 2004
And the man repeatedly hitting Andrew Golota in his Polish pickles was actually a woman who goes by the name of Glenda Jackson

Any time now, the powers that be including HBO, Al Haymon, and the WBC, will make their way to the lab currently housing the heavyweight legend and release them back into the universal rankings.

Make yourself a bunker people. Doomsday is upon us.

I got bored at "froze" 8)

[lillywhite14]

Shame Wlad isn't blonde, blue eyed, called Kurt and was born in Noo Jwersey. The heavyweight division would be alive and kicking and he would be worth about £50m more.

It always takes more than one good fighter to make a division.

Think about it. White, blonde, blue eyed, Kurt...

He would be the biggest name in US sport!

[funso banjo baby]

Only Bryant Jennings or maybe Malik Scott can make waves by upsetting all the odds and using slick skillz

if Jennings gets beaten on the way.... then that will truly be it.

last one to leave turn out the lights

[lillywhite14]

Someone will come along. They always have.

Be patient!

[Tanzio]

IMO (yes, I'm a "Yank"), as I have said before on the other side, the real problem with the division is that the two best HWs are brothers who (understandably) refuse to fight each other. If The Klits had fought at least twice and possibly a trilogy over the last 8 or so years the HW div. would be much healthier.

Instead, they rule the world like a monstrous tag team. If they were not brothers and were rivals, the whole world would watch their battles and the lesser of the two would face a much more confident pack of hungry dogs. The superior of the two would not have a wingman to cover his ass.

Once Vitali definitely retires, I think the scene will improve rather quickly and dramatically, American contenders or not.

[matko]

What about Anthony Joshua? I enjoyed watching Ian lewison I think he looks very exciting and beat a decent American ? Also Price can come back forget the yanks

[si7dog7]

sorry guys
it is more about styles, and the death of the fluid american style prevalent up to and including Lennox Lewis (who adopted through his training in Canada and the US)

since then

upright robots, shuffle forward back, with a couple of jabs followed by something else.
If they wasn't brothers!!! please stop!

zzzzzzz


We need different styles to make exciting fights

not the dross currently prevalent in the heavyweight division.

When a british or more importantly a US fan gets excited about a HW prospect these days, it is more in hope than expectation. and I say this as a fan, we need good REAL prospects brought up in the rarified atmosphere of an ols school of ringcraft.

tata

[Bricks]

and it has probably been the title of many a thread since circa 1999
but

Boxing so desperately needs a healthy stable of US heavyweights

I know the majority of larger, taller and faster US athletes now primarily look at Baseball, Foobaaaal and Basketball - for collegiate and subsequently $$$$$$ purposes.

However, without them the heavyweight division is quite frankly deathly quiet and ..... boring? and I know we were spolit from the early sixties onwards.

Our current 2 HW champions
Can anyone, hand on heart think that either Klitschko would stand up to a Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, prime Tyson, Lewis or Holyfield. Even a motivated Bowe. IMHO Nope.
Would Wlad have been able to weather a full bloodied Ernie Shavers barrage? maybe
Ali would have PLAYED with them both
OK these are just the big names that everyone has heard of, but the depth of boxing was much greater, with a wide variety of styles

The staple style of heavyweightboxing is no longer fluid and the European style is now the rule. No other weightclass has this trait in my view, and it is because every other weightclass is influenced by the rest of the world. (The americas, far east etc)

Now it is all very well for our cousins across the pond to gloat about Bristish prospects being knocked over but my question is:

How do the USA start, once again, a production line of hungry prospective heavyweight champions?or has that day been and gone.

Is there an answer, or will we be subject to more dross from the stadia in Germany featuring more seven foot monsters plodding forward and doing well, not very much. Hard men but no real panache.
Or course I support all GB and Irish boxers at whatever weight, and in terms of the big men I want them all to do well. Should my prayers be answered and the style of boxing changes once more amongst the heavies, then only our Mr Haye would be armed with the tools to be competitive.

This is not an anti Wlad or vitaly rant, as I think they conduct themselves with integrity and are a credit to themselves and their countries and fans - but the heavyweight division used to be the one that everyone could get excited about. Sadly it has been a very long time since we could say that.

Despite my anti Mitchell feelings since the late 1990s I think the way they have conducted themselves in the ring the last seven years means both are top 25 alll time heavyweights now possibly as high in the top 15. The bottom line is take them out and haye as the no 1 contender out and thecrestvofvthe division is the absolute worst it has ever ever been! Oh my! Also out of the ring the2 bothers have been stylish they look the part.in fact they may be two of the most imposing looking he champs of all time.but what really gets to me about the heavyweights today is the poor condition lack of skills and speed and power and entertainment

[loaded_gloves]

Would Wlad have been able to weather a full bloodied Ernie Shavers barrage? maybe

Maybe?

MAYBE?

Wladimir Klitschko's head versus Earnie Shavers fist? Can a plate of jelly survive a swing from a baseball bat? Or a shotgun blast?

[loaded_gloves]

Shame Wlad isn't blonde, blue eyed, called Kurt and was born in Noo Jwersey. The heavyweight division would be alive and kicking and he would be worth about £50m more.

Yes, because Americans love an American heavyweight with a boring style. Chris Byrd, Jimmy Young, they were real box office weren't they?

Sigh.

[loaded_gloves]

upright robots, shuffle forward back, with a couple of jabs followed by something else.

This is basically it. It is an awful, obnoxious, non-combative style of boxing completely at odds with the Gods of War who have held the heavyweight title. Christ, the rare time they do get hit back they run directly backwards in pure terror. Check out Vitali against an old, flabby, semi-retired Corrie Sanders.

Worst heavyweight champs ever.

[mickey1975]

upright robots, shuffle forward back, with a couple of jabs followed by something else.

This is basically it. It is an awful, obnoxious, non-combative style of boxing completely at odds with the Gods of War who have held the heavyweight title. Christ, the rare time they do get hit back they run directly backwards in pure terror. Check out Vitali against an old, flabby, semi-retired Corrie Sanders.

Worst heavyweight champs ever.

So why cant anyone beat them? The Americans are absolutely useless.

[Dixonian]

Yeah we could certainly do with a good bunch of American heavies. Do miss the big fights at Madison or Vegas. And the pre-fight banter/trash talk.

Not sure which of the guys Tyson dropped for fun would be ruling the heavyweight division now, however. Berbick? He could barely beat an Ali with parkinsons.

I would say Berbick, Biggs, Thomas, Tucker, Bruno, Smith as a an example, though Tucker and Smith did go the distance with Tyson.

Don't think either of them would have had the ability to get past Wlad's jab to be honest. Maybe Tucker....

[loaded_gloves]

Worst heavyweight champs ever.

So why cant anyone beat them? The Americans are absolutely useless.

You asked and answered your own question.

Fitness, technique, heart, desire, grit, intensity - everything all gone. America simply doesn't create the character of man it used to create.

Now we have lazy fat slobs waddling around the ring in a half hearted non-effort to win a fight.

[loaded_gloves]

Yeah we could certainly do with a good bunch of American heavies. Do miss the big fights at Madison or Vegas. And the pre-fight banter/trash talk.

Not sure which of the guys Tyson dropped for fun would be ruling the heavyweight division now, however. Berbick? He could barely beat an Ali with parkinsons.

I would say Berbick, Biggs, Thomas, Tucker, Bruno, Smith as a an example, though Tucker and Smith did go the distance with Tyson.

Don't think either of them would have had the ability to get past Wlad's jab to be honest. Maybe Tucker....

Who has Wlad outjabbed that made him the great jabber?

Seriously, one great jabber he has outjabbed. Just name one.

Outjabbing an endless string of defeatist, passive, out of shape men doth not a great jabber make.

Trevor Berbick solved more difficult problems against Pinklon Thomas and Greg Page - and both guys had steel chins too. Hot and cold fighter undoubtably, but when he was in the mood he was beastly. Work rate, chin, power, physical fitness, awkward style, cunning, totally fearless. He's a world apart from anyone Wlad has defeated in his current reign.

[Bard of Boxrec]

This debate gets more and more depressing every time it's brought up. Can you imagine the heavy scene in 10 years' time? It'll be just a bunch of bloated semipros searching for a meal ticket that won't arrive while fighting twice a year against Zack Page types. Oh wait, that's what we have already, although somehow the 'top' guys are presumably earning enough to live on.

And if everyone is doing it, the sanctioning bodies will just have to sift through the faeces and try and work out who the hell they can match together for vacant title fights only for someone to pull out or decline to fight for reasons unknown.

[lillywhite14]

Shame Wlad isn't blonde, blue eyed, called Kurt and was born in Noo Jwersey. The heavyweight division would be alive and kicking and he would be worth about £50m more.

Yes, because Americans love an American heavyweight with a boring style. Chris Byrd, Jimmy Young, they were real box office weren't they?

Sigh.

The blonde haired blue eyed Chris Byrd?

The US has been looking for a too white heavyweight since Dempsey. He outclassed a lot of sub standard opposition during his reign. Touch more exciting than Wlad to be fair but still, he was a megastar.
A dominant white heavyweight champion would be a star in any era if he was from the US.

[loaded_gloves]

But Dempsey had star power and crippling punch power. Can you point to a popular white American fighter who had a boring style?

Jerry Quarry, Gerry Cooney, Tommy Morrison - these guys packed a wallop and were very exciting. Quarry was handsome, totally fearless and would try take a man to hell.

There are no white American Chris Byrd, Jimmy Young, klitschko brother type heavies who were big box office.