Recognizing Mike Mccallums Greatness

[Esquire]

One of my top five favorites of all time was Mccallum. When hard core fans come to his defense they usually point the fact that Leonard, Duran, Hearns and Hagler weren't eager to fight him. This is true, especially if you take out Hagler who was a weight above and had plenty of good fights to attend to.

But what even purists neglect to see is that Mike Mccallum was significantly older than those that he lost fights to, and even then most were razor thin close that could have gone either way.

Consider this: He was in his late thirties and even forty when he engaged in his trilogy with James Toney who was twelve (12) years younger than him. That's an old man fighting an up and coming prodigy coming into his own. Yet I had Mccallum winning the first fight, winning the second fight, and losing the last fight at age forty when it was Mccallum's last fight and purely for the money.

He was thirteen years older than Roy Jones and it showed. Mike didn't win a round and if you saw the fight you saw why. Mike was ancient when he fought the best P4P fighter int he world in his second to last fight (penultimate fight for those that like fancy words).

Mccallum was thirteen years older than Tiozzo when they fought and the decision was razor thin which I disagreed with. I thought Mike won that one too.

MIke was thirteen years older than Sumbu Kalambay (a really underrated gifted fighter) and even then Mike lost by a point or two over fifteen rounds against a man that could have been his son. Further, Mccallum bet him in a rematch while still old enough to be his father.

Mccallum has been called an all time, no brainer great, by men such as Manny Steward and the Duva clan. He could do it all. He had an iron chin, beautiful combination punching ability, stamina, and about the best measurables you could have for a middleweight (I'm not even counting his Jr. Middeweight reign of terror), He stood 5' 11.5" in height with a nearly 75 inch reach. He was one the last great technicians that we've seen and the single best body puncher from the outside. He landed devastating body blows from afar, and usually in counterpunch form.

I once read an interview with him in a boxing magazine many years ago long before the internet and when asked why he focused so much on the opponent's body, he said that he didn't do it to wear down an opponent for the later rounds. He did it because body punches hurt opponents that very second they land. The first thing that Mike did when things weren't going his way was to ratchet up the body punching, usually uppercuts to the solar plexis and things always turned back in his favor.

What a wonderful fighter he was and I wish he got that win in the first Toney fight since that would have been his ultimate win. I believe he won it but left open room for doubt when Toney came on late, especially the last round.

He was also a fifteen teen round fighter. I loved 15 round fights. It separated the very good from the greats with the outcome on the line with nine minutes left.

Opinions on the Bodysnatcher. Do I just have a crush on this butter smooth destroyer, or was he that good in your opinion. Lay it on me. The guy deserves some ink.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Great fighter, perhaps a bit overrated at this point. None of those guys ducked him, they fought each other when Mike was a nobody.

[Bobbyptsd]

What Saad said.

Also a somewhat overrated body puncher imo, with the moniker and all that. The "single greatest body puncher" line from the OP is the type of thing I'm referring to. Not saying he wasn't really good at it, but I certainly don't think he stood alone in that category.

I think that whole post has a few real wonky moments, with all due respect. Calling McCallum "Ancient" for his fight with Toney, and that he basically let him win by "leaving it open" for him, saying that 15 round fights separated the good from the greats, saying Kalambay could have been Mike's son( and "Still"? If he was old enough to be his father the first time.....well...), etc...

McCallum was a great fighter though, hyperbole or not.

[Rover]

McCallum/Kalambay I was 12, not 15.

[Esquire]

What Saad said.

Also a somewhat overrated body puncher imo, with the moniker and all that. The "single greatest body puncher" line from the OP is the type of thing I'm referring to. Not saying he wasn't really good at it, but I certainly don't think he stood alone in that category.

I think that whole post has a few real wonky moments, with all due respect. Calling McCallum "Ancient" for his fight with Toney, and that he basically let him win by "leaving it open" for him, saying that 15 round fights separated the good from the greats, saying Kalambay could have been Mike's son( and "Still"? If he was old enough to be his father the first time.....well...), etc...

McCallum was a great fighter though, hyperbole or not.

My point about his age never truly gets mixed into the equation. There is a huge difference between a fighter between the ages of 35-40 when matched against other great fighters in their early to mid twenties.

I said he was the best body puncher I've seen who landed body shots from afar. His long arms and superior technique let him get away with such an attack from the outside because he had excellent timing and reflexes at such an advanced age and his chin remained strong despite the times he got nailed by equally good technicians who had huge age advantages over him.

He wasn't the best middleweight I've seen, but he could give great fighters hell on a consistent basis. That is why he is one of my favorites. And he beat a whole slew of very good fighters at both junior middle and middle. Oftentimes, by knockout or late kayo. A true pro in every sense of the word.

[Esquire]

McCallum/Kalambay I was 12, not 15.

You are correct. My memory failed me on that one. Still very close fights both times, and Kalambay was very good in his own right, but thirteen years younger than Mike. One of the fights was in Kalambay's home country and the other in Europe where Kalambay had a huge following.

He wasn't the best I've seen, clearly, but his style was enjoyable to watch and almost always effective enough to win. And he beat up some very tough guys along the way.

[King Carlos]

The thing that made me laugh was the "only lost by a point or two" line in regards to his first fight with Kalambay. I struggled to give Mike a single round. That's maybe the most one-sided decision loss I've ever seen an all time great take in the middle of his prime. Sumbu boxed circles around him.

[King Carlos]

The rematch was very close, though, and an awesome two way box off.

[Rover]

Agree Sumbu clearly won the first fight.

[Controversial]

An interview in 2011 and some of the questions and answers McCallum gave.

Best overall: James Toney -- He wasn’t a complete fighter the first time we fought, and I still believe I won that fight. But he learned in that fight and he got better. He grew with each fight. By our third fight, he was a different fighter, a complete fighter. He was someone who could do it all, fight inside or outside, work offense and defense at the same time, just like me when I was younger. I like to think that I helped James mature as a fighter.

Best boxer: Herol Graham -- He was a pure boxer, a southpaw and very elusive. It wasn’t easy to hit him. He was very smart, very skilled.

Best puncher: Julian Jackson -- He hit me so hard! Julian wasn’t just powerful, he was also real quick. I got caught by a right hand in the first round of our fight and I remember thinking “What’s wrong with my legs?” I tried my best to hide it from him. I knew I had to take him out as soon as I could.

Best defense: Sumbu Kalambay -- I fought many good defensive fighters. Toney had a good defense. Graham was slippery. Jones was fast and slick, but Kalambay is No. 1. I can’t forget about him. He’s the first fighter to beat me and it’s because of his good movement. He was always sliding side to side, very shifty. He was a dangerous boy.

Fastest hands: Jackson -- He was quick, man. That’s why he got so many knockouts. Everyone focused on his power and then he’d get you with a punch you didn’t see. They landed on you -- boom! -- from out of nowhere. Kalambay and Toney were also fast. So was Jones, obviously, but I fought him when I was older and had slowed down a bit.

Fastest feet: Roy Jones -- He had very quick feet. He was elusive just because of his footwork.

Best chin: Steve Collins -- I almost said Toney, but Collins had the best chin. I hit him right on his chin all night and he wouldn‘t budge. I couldn’t hit Toney that much and when I did, he backed off. Collins walked through punches.

Best jab: Donald Curry -- I fought many fighters with good jabs. Kalambay could win fights with just his jab. McCrory had a good, hard jab. But Curry’s was the best. I see why they called him “the Cobra” because he didn’t miss with it. He was a bad man with that jab.

Strongest: Michael Watson -- Oh my God, he was so strong. That’s why that fight was so hard. It was a gruesome fight, 11 rounds of back-and-forth hell.

Smartest: Roy Jones Jr. -- I fought quite a few smart boys in my time. Graham was a cunning S.O.B. I remember him sticking his tongue out at me whenever I’d miss a punch. Kalambay was smart and so was Toney, although he didn’t have the experience to back it up when we first fought. But I think Roy may have been the smartest. He was very clever, which didn’t surprise me. I knew he was sharp. It was like he was always one step ahead of me.


Likewise Tony was interviewed in 2009 and named McCallum in several of the questions

Best fighter: Mike McCallum -- That’s an easy choice, right off the top of my head it’s the Body Snatcher. He was the best fighter I fought at middleweight, super middleweight and cruiserweight. Out of all the fighters I fought, I respect him the most because he made me think about everything I tried to do. Before McCallum I was just runnin’ in on everyone, but he made me slow down and think for the first time.

Best Boxer: McCallum -- Yup, it’s him again. It’s between McCallum and Michael Nunn, but I gotta go with McCallum because he was a master boxer who wasn’t afraid to stand his ground. Nunn was mostly fast. I admit that he outboxed me for about nine rounds, but my body shots slowed him down. I told him during the fight ‘I’m gonna catch you!’ And I did.

Best defense: McCallum: He was right there in front of me, but I had a hard time hitting him with clean punches. I basically came into my own by fighting him. I learned how to be elusive without running around the ring by fighting Mike McCallum three times.

Best jab: McCallum: Mike’s jab was like a piston. There were other guys I fought who had good jabs, like Nunn and Jones, but they just had speed and they just flicked it. Mike popped that jab with authority. He was an old-school fighter.

Smartest: McCallum: Come on, who do you think it is? Who’s the one fighter I truly respect? You got it, the Body Snatcher, Mike McCallum. I fought my share of boxers who thought they were clever like Roy Jones, Michael Nunn, Montell Griffin, and Reggie Johnson, but they were all scared to really fight. McCallum boxed, he fought, he defended, and he didn’t run all over the ring. He could do all that because he was smart.

[Rover]

A great fighter, who sadly doesn't figure enough on ATG lists.

It was said he accosted Leonard in the mid 80's at Caesars Palace when both were attending a fight, and asked why he couldn't get in the mix with the big 4, and apparently Leonard replied he couldn't speak for Hagler, but he, Tommy and Duran would have nothing to do with him, as he was considered high risk, for not enough reward. This at a time when Leonard was constantly hijacking other guys fights with talks of coming back.

It is also in a Duran biography that he split with Steward, due to being promised a fight with Hearns if he let Tommy get to Duran first, which was reneged on afterwards.

He beat Kalule less than 18 months after Leonard had beaten him, and was WBA L / Middle champion in 84, so there is no reason why he shouldn't have fought any of those guys other than avoidance on their parts.

So Duran "avoided" McCallum to fight Hearns.
Leonard wasn't fighting anyone and came back to fight Hagler.
You could make an argument that Hearns avoided him; McCallum won his belt in October 84. Now, Hearns had the Hagler fight, and it would be absurd to fault him for having taken that. However, he did return to jr. middle to defend his belt against Medal. Why not McCallum?
When Duran beat Barkley in 89, he fought Leonard again; I wouldn't say that's evidence of avoiding McCallum. Leonard and Hearns fought each other. McCallum hadn't even left jr. middle yet when Hagler lost his title.

[Esquire]

The thing that made me laugh was the "only lost by a point or two" line in regards to his first fight with Kalambay. I struggled to give Mike a single round. That's maybe the most one-sided decision loss I've ever seen an all time great take in the middle of his prime. Sumbu boxed circles around him.

I had Kalambay winning by 1 point as did two of the three judges, if my memory serves correctly. I had it that close.

Kalambay was a beautiful boxer. Had he not got caught cold by Nunn I thought Kalambay could win. I thought he would win that fight going in.

[King Carlos]

The thing that made me laugh was the "only lost by a point or two" line in regards to his first fight with Kalambay. I struggled to give Mike a single round. That's maybe the most one-sided decision loss I've ever seen an all time great take in the middle of his prime. Sumbu boxed circles around him.

I had Kalambay winning by 1 point as did two of the three judges, if my memory serves correctly. I had it that close.

Kalambay was a beautiful boxer. Had he not got caught cold by Nunn I thought Kalambay could win. I thought he would win that fight going in.

Show me your scorecard. Mike did precisely dick in that fight but get jabbed silly by Kalambay. It was a pure boxing clinic.

[Rover]

.

It is also in a Duran biography that he split with Steward, due to being promised a fight with Hearns if he let Tommy get to Duran first, which was reneged on afterwards..

So Duran "avoided" McCallum to fight Hearns.

Can you read? If so try reading the above again, and you might work out that it was a proposed fight with Tommy that was reneged on, nothing to do with Duran avoiding McCallum to fight Hearns.

Leonard wasn't fighting anyone and came back to fight Hagler.

Leonard was constantly waffling on about coming back during that period, in fact even more than your usual twenty page novels.

You could make an argument that Hearns avoided him;

I just did, read above.

When Duran beat Barkley in 89

,


I'm not interested in what he did with Barkley, rather what he did in the previous 5 years after the Hearns fight, where other than losing to Simms he was fighting no hopers. So yes I will say he avoided MM, and I am a massive Duran fan.

McCallum hadn't even left jr. middle yet when Hagler lost his title.

I didn't say Hagler avoided Mike, i said the other 3 did, and I also stated the answer Leonard was supposed to have given McCallum regarding the 3 of them.

You claim Duran avoided McCallum. When? When he was coming back after the brutal KO loss to Hearns after about two years off? And he wasn't at jr. middle, right?
I don't care about Leonard's waffling about coming back. He wasn't fighting, period. And he came back for Hagler.
As for Hearns, that's the strongest case of the three.
And according to whom did Leonard say this to McCallum?

[Rover]

When you learn to both read, and more importantly comprehend other peoples posts i'll dignify your nonsense with a legitimate reply. You might also like to hone up on your numeric literacy. Duran was out of the ring 18 months, after getting sparked by Hearns, not 2 years. Speaking of the ability to read numbers, you might want to try weights, and dates. Perhaps you will see that between 86, and 89 when Roberto was beating bums, and losing to Simms, MM was fighting guys with his weight fluctuating similar to Durans, so as stated Duran wanted no part of him.

I can read and comprehend fine, but since you want to play this game...
I said "about" two years.
Hearns/Duran was on 6/15/84. Duran came back at the end of January 1986 v. Zambrano.
That's over 19 months.
You stated that "Duran was out of the ring 18 months," and you put no "about" there.
Normally, I'd have just left that alone, but since you decided to get snarky, enjoy.

[Ezzard]

McCallum was a truly great fighter who was probably held back a little by his nationality. Had he been American, Latino or British he’d have had the fanbase to have got those fights with Marvin/Ray/Tommy. Then when he fought the likes of Jones and Toney he was over the brow of the hill.

I thought McCallum left once Hearns signed to fight Duran. I don’t believe he was waiting for after their fight. But could be wrong.

By 1987 my guess is that Mike beats any of the fab 4.

[Rover]

McCallum was a truly great fighter who was probably held back a little by his nationality. Had he been American, Latino or British he’d have had the fanbase to have got those fights with Marvin/Ray/Tommy. Then when he fought the likes of Jones and Toney he was over the brow of the hill.

I thought McCallum left once Hearns signed to fight Duran. I don’t believe he was waiting for after their fight. But could be wrong.

By 1987 my guess is that Mike beats any of the fab 4.

I'm trying to figure out when Duran "avoided" McCallum.
When neither was a champ? Duran left jr. middle after the Hearns fight.
McCallum lost to Kalambay for the WBA title.
Then, Duran beat Barkley and fought Leonard at super middle.
McCallum meanwhile stayed at middle and beat Graham for the vacant title (which had been stripped from Kalambay when he decided to fight Nunn instead of his mandatory or whatever WBA idiocy was involved).
So is the claim that Duran "avoided" a nontitle fight with McCallum when neither was a champ?

[Bricks]

Mccallum wants to moan and moan about how the "other greats" didnt want to fight him but the fact is he wanted to be able to fight Duran,Hagler and SRL when he had no business demanding such matches. Those guys were at a stage when they wanted big/and or superfights. Mccallum was a little impatient.

He should have been able to fight Duran as mandatory in 84 but lost out to stablemate Hearns, got a little step aside money and an easy title shot v mannion and a chance to milk some decent money for a couple of years. So whats his problem does he really think he would have got millions to fight duran in 84. If he wanted Hagler so bad he could have given up his LM crown in 84 and taken on John Mugabi and Tony Sibson for example to get himself as Haglers mandatory but even than there was no guarantee he would get a shot. As it is in early 87 Mccallum got good money to kayo Don Curry in a mini superfight, he was than in prime position to capitalise with fights against Hearns or Duran who would have jumped at the chance of another title shot but he blew it by losing to Sumbu Kalambay. By the time Mccallum overcame that blip in 89/90/early 91, Hearns/Hagler and Duran were old news and he got Toney twice . He really than should have went after eubanks and benn by fighting at 168 in 93/94 but he was making money with his LH title in 94 he than got a final payday against JJ in 96.

The bottom line is Mccallum was probably on his best day good enough to compete with Hagler and the others but he whines waaaay waay to much about how the others didnt wanna fight him when he didnt bring a lot to the table.

[Rover]

Mccallum wants to moan and moan about how the "other greats" didnt want to fight him but the fact is he wanted to be able to fight Duran,Hagler and SRL when he had no business demanding such matches. Those guys were at a stage when they wanted big/and or superfights. Mccallum was a little impatient.

He should have been able to fight Duran as mandatory in 84 but lost out to stablemate Hearns, got a little step aside money and an easy title shot v mannion and a chance to milk some decent money for a couple of years. So whats his problem does he really think he would have got millions to fight duran in 84. If he wanted Hagler so bad he could have given up his LM crown in 84 and taken on John Mugabi and Tony Sibson for example to get himself as Haglers mandatory but even than there was no guarantee he would get a shot. As it is in early 87 Mccallum got good money to kayo Don Curry in a mini superfight, he was than in prime position to capitalise with fights against Hearns or Duran who would have jumped at the chance of another title shot but he blew it by losing to Sumbu Kalambay. By the time Mccallum overcame that blip in 89/90/early 91, Hearns/Hagler and Duran were old news and he got Toney twice . He really than should have went after eubanks and benn by fighting at 168 in 93/94 but he was making money with his LH title in 94 he than got a final payday against JJ in 96.

The bottom line is Mccallum was probably on his best day good enough to compete with Hagler and the others but he whines waaaay waay to much about how the others didnt wanna fight him when he didnt bring a lot to the table.

I mostly agree. Saying Duran "avoided" McCallum to fight Hearns is laughable. Hearns was far more accomplished at that time. I do, however, think there was an opportunity for a Hearns/McCallum unification which should've happened rather than Hearns/Medal. (If Hearns had permanently left jr. middle after Hutchings--which occurred the same month Mike won his title--I also would not make an argument Hearns should've fought Mike at jr. middle.)

[SaadOffTheDeck]

McCallum was a truly great fighter who was probably held back a little by his nationality. Had he been American, Latino or British he’d have had the fanbase to have got those fights with Marvin/Ray/Tommy. Then when he fought the likes of Jones and Toney he was over the brow of the hill.

I thought McCallum left once Hearns signed to fight Duran. I don’t believe he was waiting for after their fight. But could be wrong.

By 1987 my guess is that Mike beats any of the fab 4.

Yeah, he got pissed at Manny for allowing the unification instead of standing by him and trying to force the McCallum/Duran fight. Mike was an undeserving mandatory at that point. Hearns could have fought him instead of Medal, but that hardly constitutes avoiding. Hagler & Leonard never avoided him. If Mike was looking for Hagler, all he had to do was move up. Ironically, he moved up to Middle about 5 seconds after Marvin retired. Lots of people say he wanted Marvin on the internet, not a peep out of him at the time. He's bitter that timing kept him from those fights. He came along a bit too late.

[Ezzard]

I really don’t agree that Duran ducked McCallum. He wasn’t scared of losing which is why he was fat or at least overweight for almost all of his fights after the first Leonard bouts.

But at the same time I don’t agree with this idea that somehow it’s okay McCallum didn’t get the big fights because he wasn’t that popular. It’s a sport. He obviously deserved his crack at the fab 4. He didn’t get it. He’s entitled to moan about it.

Things that conspired against him were… Duran being considered a joke anyway from 1984 onwards… Hagler fighting once a year… Leonard being retired…coming back for one fight….retired…

[SaadOffTheDeck]

But at the same time I don’t agree with this idea that somehow it’s okay McCallum didn’t get the big fights because he wasn’t that popular. It’s a sport. He obviously deserved his crack at the fab 4. He didn’t get it. He’s entitled to moan about it.

He certainly is not. Why in the world would anyone want to see Hearns, Duran or Hagler fight an unknown instead of each other? It wasn't popularity, he only had one win of note.

[Ezzard]

But at the same time I don’t agree with this idea that somehow it’s okay McCallum didn’t get the big fights because he wasn’t that popular. It’s a sport. He obviously deserved his crack at the fab 4. He didn’t get it. He’s entitled to moan about it.

He certainly is not. Why in the world would anyone want to see Hearns, Duran or Hagler fight an unknown instead of each other?

Well they weren’t fighting each other constantly. From memory Hagler fought about 3 times in 2 years. Leonard was carefully picking his opponents.

McCallum was a better fighter than Mugabi and Lalonde put together.

He was more deserving by a nautical mile.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

But at the same time I don’t agree with this idea that somehow it’s okay McCallum didn’t get the big fights because he wasn’t that popular. It’s a sport. He obviously deserved his crack at the fab 4. He didn’t get it. He’s entitled to moan about it.

He certainly is not. Why in the world would anyone want to see Hearns, Duran or Hagler fight an unknown instead of each other?

Well they weren’t fighting each other constantly. From memory Hagler fought about 3 times in 2 years. Leonard was carefully picking his opponents.

McCallum was a better fighter than Mugabi and Lalonde put together.

He was more deserving by a nautical mile.

They were fighting each other at the exact time frame where anyone can even consider McCallum 'ducked'. Shortly thereafter Duran was on an extended layoff and none of them were fighting in Mike's division.

As for Mugabi & Lalonde, those guys fought Hagler and Leonard outside of Mike's division. Like I said earlier, he never made a peep about fighting Marvin. That's been invented through time. Hagler clung to his belts like a lioness with her cubs. I'm sure Mike could have gotten a mandatory fight along the line if that's what he truly wanted, or he could have even asked.

[Rover]

But at the same time I don’t agree with this idea that somehow it’s okay McCallum didn’t get the big fights because he wasn’t that popular. It’s a sport. He obviously deserved his crack at the fab 4. He didn’t get it. He’s entitled to moan about it.

He certainly is not. Why in the world would anyone want to see Hearns, Duran or Hagler fight an unknown instead of each other?

Well they weren’t fighting each other constantly. From memory Hagler fought about 3 times in 2 years. Leonard was carefully picking his opponents.

McCallum was a better fighter than Mugabi and Lalonde put together.

He was more deserving by a nautical mile.

Hagler fought Mugabi, his mandatory. Mike was still at jr. middle and didn't leave there until Marv had lost to SRL. SRL fought Lalond in November 1988. At that point, McCallum had nothing to offer SRL; he didn't even have a belt at that time.