The Demise of Warren - whose fault?

[fasteddie]

you havent put his own greed which is why he is on the brink of losing a big chunk of everything

[danconnollyeire]

I don't get why people revel in the downfall of others - if there even is a downfall.

agreed
I don't think there is...not yet anyways...we hope

Everyone thought he was in a downfall about a year ago, then he pulled out the Del Boy Luxembourg card and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He's a pudendum agreed but he is a very smart businessman (name a better one in british boxing. esp seeing as he came from promoting unlicenced fights, televising them etc). He will get someone a big title fight or line-up Chisora-Price, Del Boy will try bum him at the press conference, lick his face, pore beer over his head, headbutt him at the weigh-in, all of a sudden 1000s of new people subscribe to allegedly to see the contiversial fights and Warren makes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[dondada]

I don't get why people revel in the downfall of others - if there even is a downfall.

agreed
I don't think there is...not yet anyways...we hope

Everyone thought he was in a downfall about a year ago, then he pulled out the Del Boy Luxembourg card and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

I'm not sure it made $.

FFS (For Frank's sake) I obviously hope it did.

[pyenest77]

I don't get why people revel in the downfall of others - if there even is a downfall.

agreed
I don't think there is...not yet anyways...we hope

Everyone thought he was in a downfall about a year ago, then he pulled out the Del Boy Luxembourg card and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

He's a pudendum agreed but he is a very smart businessman (name a better one in british boxing. esp seeing as he came from promoting unlicenced fights, televising them etc). He will get someone a big title fight or line-up Chisora-Price, Del Boy will try bum him at the press conference, lick his face, pore beer over his head, headbutt him at the weigh-in, all of a sudden 1000s of new people subscribe to allegedly to see the contiversial fights and Warren makes $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Totally agree the man is like a phoenix. He has risen from the ashes time & time again. Although I am not really sure he is actually in the doldrums as he still has 2 of our 3 world champions aboard.

[Deserter]

I know its a joke thread but i dont think warren is on the ropes. A couple of tweaks and he could make something special from b-o-x nation. He needs a couple of things, another stable to back up his own now a few of the big names have gone - possibly hattons, some more shows that people regularly tune into - buncey has his show, but a ringside style show, a where are they now show, a behind the scenes boxing show, an Ultimate fighter / Contender style show would all be things to get people tuning in each week. I also think it might be worth FW stealing a prize fighter style competition format and using that would be a good idea. Sign a few more big names he's got chisora, price, why not get audley or at least broker a decent fight and host it? He would have a run on the british HW scene if he did that.

Why not think about introducing some MMA, forget the UFC what about trying to get in some cheap non live feeds for Bellator or even live K1.

It could be the channel for fight nuts. Lets face it sky is pretty poor for boxing at the moment.

They've already gone down the MMA route but it hasn't made a discernible difference to the best of my knowledge. As for the idea that all it requires is a couple of 'tweaks' to get allegedly to work financially.... really?

[Finn]

I know its a joke thread but i dont think warren is on the ropes. A couple of tweaks and he could make something special from b-o-x nation. He needs a couple of things, another stable to back up his own now a few of the big names have gone - possibly hattons, some more shows that people regularly tune into - buncey has his show, but a ringside style show, a where are they now show, a behind the scenes boxing show, an Ultimate fighter / Contender style show would all be things to get people tuning in each week. I also think it might be worth FW stealing a prize fighter style competition format and using that would be a good idea. Sign a few more big names he's got chisora, price, why not get audley or at least broker a decent fight and host it? He would have a run on the british HW scene if he did that.

Why not think about introducing some MMA, forget the UFC what about trying to get in some cheap non live feeds for Bellator or even live K1.

It could be the channel for fight nuts. Lets face it sky is pretty poor for boxing at the moment.

They've already gone down the MMA route but it hasn't made a discernible difference to the best of my knowledge. As for the idea that all it requires is a couple of 'tweaks' to get Allegedly channel to work financially.... really?

i didnt comment on the financial side.

[Deserter]

I know its a joke thread but i dont think warren is on the ropes. A couple of tweaks and he could make something special from b-o-x nation. He needs a couple of things, another stable to back up his own now a few of the big names have gone - possibly hattons, some more shows that people regularly tune into - buncey has his show, but a ringside style show, a where are they now show, a behind the scenes boxing show, an Ultimate fighter / Contender style show would all be things to get people tuning in each week. I also think it might be worth FW stealing a prize fighter style competition format and using that would be a good idea. Sign a few more big names he's got chisora, price, why not get audley or at least broker a decent fight and host it? He would have a run on the british HW scene if he did that.

Why not think about introducing some MMA, forget the UFC what about trying to get in some cheap non live feeds for Bellator or even live K1.

It could be the channel for fight nuts. Lets face it sky is pretty poor for boxing at the moment.

They've already gone down the MMA route but it hasn't made a discernible difference to the best of my knowledge. As for the idea that all it requires is a couple of 'tweaks' to get Allegedly channel to work financially.... really?

i didnt comment on the financial side.

Well I'd love to know what on earth you mean by "something special" then, given allegedly is a commercial entity. Please enlighten me...

[Adamj1987]

Losing tv means losing money and bigger name fighters want more money than on offer and his own fault with allegedly dodgy dealings with his fighters

[UJC]

You only have to look in one direction. You can **** people over for so long then karma takes over.

[UJC]

I know its a joke thread but i dont think warren is on the ropes. A couple of tweaks and he could make something special from b-o-x nation. He needs a couple of things, another stable to back up his own now a few of the big names have gone - possibly hattons, some more shows that people regularly tune into - buncey has his show, but a ringside style show, a where are they now show, a behind the scenes boxing show, an Ultimate fighter / Contender style show would all be things to get people tuning in each week. I also think it might be worth FW stealing a prize fighter style competition format and using that would be a good idea. Sign a few more big names he's got chisora, price, why not get audley or at least broker a decent fight and host it? He would have a run on the british HW scene if he did that.

Why not think about introducing some MMA, forget the UFC what about trying to get in some cheap non live feeds for Bellator or even live K1.

It could be the channel for fight nuts. Lets face it sky is pretty poor for boxing at the moment.

The business model b allegedly is built on means its going to be very very difficult for them. Its just got a whole lot worse when the headliner fighters are leaving the UK part of the operation, besides boxing is a minority sport in this country nowhere near as big as it is in the States and South America.

[tonyevs]

allegedly was a duff idea from him.
He forgot the basics of promoting fights ... Exciting fights.

He milked Sky and ITV for years. And believed he was big enough to conduct his buisiness that way as a norm.
Sadly for him - his payemasters realized he is merely one of hungry many.

If he realizes his mistakes, then he has the connections and savvy to claw his way back.
He still has some good fighters signed to him.
Cleverly is certainly good enough to get him back at the big table.

[UJC]

The one card w Promotions have left in the pack is the rumours of BT wanting to pump cash into sport, whether that is boxing is another thing. If it is W rren has the connections to salvage something otherwise he is f cked.

[Finn]

i didnt comment on the financial side.

Well I'd love to know what on earth you mean by "something special" then, given Allegedly channel is a commercial entity. Please enlighten me...

What part are you finding hard to understand? I'm saying its not too far off becoming a great channel for fight nuts if it had a few tweaks. But since you brought the financial aspect up BT are apparently looking to buy allegedly channel with a big budget FW could be onto to a winner. I didnt say he isnt on the ropes, i said i dont think he is, the channel could fall flat on its arse but since FW has been about for donkeys and always managed to comeback, im inclined to believe he could be onto a winner.

If you would like me to enlighten you in the future i could tell you who your father is, that would probably come as a shock to you.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

It is just a natural progression Solomons, Levene, the Caretel, Warren and now it looks like
a re-emergence of Matchroom.

Doesn't help that Warren on average brings in a crap product and now his fighters are leaving -
it is the end.

[dookus]

He got complacent long ago. Hennessey wasn't capable of taking advantage of that. Hearn is.

[Deserter]

i didnt comment on the financial side.

Well I'd love to know what on earth you mean by "something special" then, given Allegedly channel is a commercial entity. Please enlighten me...

What part are you finding hard to understand? I'm saying its not too far off becoming a great channel for fight nuts if it had a few tweaks. But since you brought the financial aspect up BT are apparently looking to buy allegedly channel with a big budget FW could be onto to a winner. I didnt say he isnt on the ropes, i said i dont think he is, the channel could fall flat on its arse but since FW has been about for donkeys and always managed to comeback, im inclined to believe he could be onto a winner.

If you would like me to enlighten you in the future i could tell you who your father is, that would probably come as a shock to you.

What a bizarre tangent. Talking about a few tweaks of BN while ignoring the stuttering business model is the equivalent of me talking about making a few cosmetic changes to a car while ignoring the fact the engine isn't working.
The examples you gave earlier hardly constitute tweaks and in almost all cases would involve significant investment so you need to be able to build an ROI case i.e. an Ultimate Fighter show would cost x amount to produce but this would be justified by the belief it would generate y amount of new subscriptions for the channel.
To talk about your 'tweaks' that require investment but to then say you weren't taking into account the financial side is utterly pointless. Best you stick to telling me who my father is...

[Jeff Thomas]

I blame the following;

Awful sun articles.
Boring cards.
Unentertaining career building fights.
Terrible customer service
Terrible customer relations
Virtually no business development save for a YouTube channel
Social networking

I've never met frank my only dealings with him were when I sent him an email and asked if I could come and do some work experience at his office and he deleted me from Facebook

Based on that and all the other stuff the company are a PR disaster. After all the great fights they brought us years ago its pretty shocking its come to this.

All they can do is moan about the Barry Hearn - eubank tour... Not realising that that was 15 years ago and matchroom, whilst not perfect have continued to evolve and they have not.

I feel sorry for the likes of Dean Powell who is a good chap - the boxing game needs people like that.

It's not as if this is out of he blue - they have had plenty of opportunities to change course but they always seem to choose the worst option. They could have easily used George and Francis' company to be the funnier, more public engaging version of FWP but instead their first article in boxing monthly is three guys walking round in expensive grey suits and jumping out of rollers... There goes any chance of setting themselves as a separate entity.

Anyway I'm sure he'll survive this latest crisis. But will he learn from yet another terrible setback- history says no.

[Jeff Thomas]

And allegedly was doomed to fail anyway. Where's the feeder for it. Where's the lifeblood- the new users?

It's just a mess and they had all the information needed right here on these forum pages about what people wanted.

[Adamj1987]

And Allegedly channel was doomed to fail anyway. Where's the feeder for it. Where's the lifeblood- the new users?

It's just a mess and they had all the information needed right here on these forum pages about what people wanted.

he hates these forum he's said it in interviews and he wont do what people on these boards suggest as we are a vast minority

[earsjohn]

And Allegedly channel was doomed to fail anyway. Where's the feeder for it. Where's the lifeblood- the new users?

It's just a mess and they had all the information needed right here on these forum pages about what people wanted.

he hates these forum he's said it in interviews and he wont do what people on these boards suggest as we are a vast minority

He doesn't have to do what we suggest, but to summarily dismiss forums (and to a wider extent, social media in general) is to ignore the fact that its 2013 and not 1995.

He doesn't have to like us, but he should at least be seen to be aware of the power of the modern Internet.

[Adamj1987]

And Allegedly channel was doomed to fail anyway. Where's the feeder for it. Where's the lifeblood- the new users?

It's just a mess and they had all the information needed right here on these forum pages about what people wanted.

he hates these forum he's said it in interviews and he wont do what people on these boards suggest as we are a vast minority

He doesn't have to do what we suggest, but to summarily dismiss forums (and to a wider extent, social media in general) is to ignore the fact that its 2013 and not 1995.

He doesn't have to like us, but he should at least be seen to be aware of the power of the modern Internet.

no-one said he should dobut he should like you said at least pretend he cares what the fans think

[Jeff Thomas]

Good riddance to this backward thinking anyway lets hope this capitulation allows for some of the finer promoters like dave coldwell, Steve wood and Steve Goodwin to come through.

[Roars Like Me]

He's turned into the football equivalent of a selling club (minus the cash sale)
The young ones go there, get to a certain level and say turrah.

And yes it can't always just be him that boxers go to, that's true in any industry, everbody is in the market these days so you have to think of new things. His telly programme is a far from 'edgy' as you can get and to boot he has a shouting bafoon talking shyte and having in jokes with his monkey friends. Between him and Bunce they have over 60 years of experience and in terms of promo or new ideas, this is what they have ended up with

[iamasadlittleboy]

...has anyone been on Warrens youtube channels recently? I was checking it out in February and they didn't have a full fight on there in the previous 12 months! In fact the most recent fights were Liam Walsh v Barrie Jones and Lewis Rees v Damien Turner. A good promoter should have taken more fights and put them on there to allow fight fans to have share the fight and help promote fighters. There is massive potential to use facebook and youtube as a promotional tool, yet Warren hasn't used it.

So if we are to blame the internet for Warren's demise then we need to blame his misuse of it.

To me the Haye v Chisora fight was little more than a pay day loan, it allowed him to carry on a bit longer but he didn't build on it, he didn't build on the momentum and instead he served up dross. His next show was 2 months later and saw Jarrod Fletcher facing Billy Joe Saunders. Maybe it was poor timing having it just prior to the Olympics but it was a decision made by W.arren/Box.nation.

Warren did apparently 17 cards last year, most of them were god awful with only a few standing out as we got mismatch after mismatch after mismatch. This, is the arguably the crux of the problem, the mismatches simply drowned out the good stuff. Had he been putting on good stuff regularly people would pay attention yet sadly he has given us a replay of what the WWF used to do with repeated squash matches rather than competitive action.

Doesn't matter how good (or bad) the fighters are, if they are evenly matched and have styles that work well then we generally get a decent fight. I've seen plenty of cards from Mexico, Argentina and the Philippines which were enthralling despite neither fighter e being all that good, yet I've heard Bunce and Co. Raving about fighters like Bradley Skeete and John Thain who aren't going to get the pulses racing I'm afraid. They are good fighters but damn are they ever boring and a boring fighter in a mismatch isn't fun to watch.

Had Warren been putting on good to watch fights, then whacking them on youtube it'd have increased the interest in seeing those fighters again (damnit that's promotion!) and allowed fans on facebook and general interest forums, reddit, stumbleupon etc etc etc etc etc to have said "look at this great fight!"

Whilst my views on b.allegedly are that they should have been picking up cheap cards internationally to fill up their schedule to fulfill their promise of 2 cards a week that doesn't change the fact that Warren has failed to promote his fighters. How often have we seen Ricky Burns, Nathan Cleverly, Billy Joe Saunders, Frankie Gavin or Kevin Mitchell on general TV? We saw David Price on BBC Breakfast before his fight with Tony Thompson and he had clear potential to be a cross over star with the fact he was doing more cross over media work than it seems the entire of the Warren stable.

It may not be what a fighter wants to do, but going on to things like Question of Sport, Alan Carr, Graham Norton, BBC Breakfast, This Morning, The One Show, Johnathan Ross and Day Break increases their profile. Increasing the profile of your fighters will see an increase the general awareness of the fighters this in turn will see people wanting to see fighters.

My missus with all her girly rags has mentioned fighters like Froch, Haye, the Klitschko's (in part due to Wladimir's relationship with Pantierre at the time) all being in there and attracting the female fan base as opposed to just the hardcore fans.

[dberry]

Cheers. I'll download that post to my Kindle.

That made me laugh enough to wake my missus up