Who have been the top 10 P4p fighters from the last 25 years?
My nominations are:
Roberto Duran
Ray Leonard
Michael Spinks
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Alexis Arguello
Salvador Sanchez
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Azumah Nelson
HM
Roy Jones
James Toney
Oscar DL Hoya
Bernard Hopkins
Kostya Tyzsu
Jeff Fenech
Mike McCallum
Marco Antonio Barerra
I purposely left out HWs as I find these difficult to rate in these p4p debates.
Last 30 years
I agree fully that the heavies should be left out of the P4P debate. They are in the premier league...best of the best...........That's just nature...anyway outside of the heavies, I would definitely agree with Duran and Leonard there
Holyfield would have made it for me as would DLH.......Erik Morales definitely and maybe even McCallum....
Holyfield would have made it for me as would DLH.......Erik Morales definitely and maybe even McCallum....
Roberto Duran
Ray Leonard
Michael Spinks
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Alexis Arguello
Salvador Sanchez
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Azumah Nelson
Great list Ezzard. I would only replace Sanchez with Roy Jones. Jones dominance lasted much longer and we can only imagine the things he would have accomplished. With Jones we dont have to wonder. Also he beat 2 of your honorable mention guys in their prime, so that says alot. Also what about Wilfredo Gomez as an honorable mention?
Besides that, you wont get any argument from me.
Ray Leonard
Michael Spinks
Marvin Hagler
Thomas Hearns
Alexis Arguello
Salvador Sanchez
Pernell Whittaker
Julio Ceasar Chavez
Azumah Nelson
Great list Ezzard. I would only replace Sanchez with Roy Jones. Jones dominance lasted much longer and we can only imagine the things he would have accomplished. With Jones we dont have to wonder. Also he beat 2 of your honorable mention guys in their prime, so that says alot. Also what about Wilfredo Gomez as an honorable mention?
Besides that, you wont get any argument from me.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 13:11
Ezzard, good list. I also endorse the non-heavyweight P4P list.
Here's my 10:
Hagler
Leonard
Whitaker
Nelson
Chavez
Spinks
McCallum
Hearns
Barrera
Jung-Koo Chang
If looking at the last 25 years, I would have to omit Duran because the time period (1980-onwards) doesn't include any of his lightweight career. Duran didn't do nearly as well out of the lightweight division to be in with those other fighters. Arguello is also debatable because his best wins against Olivares and Escalera twice were in the 70s. None of his 80s wins stack up to those and Pryor beat him twice as well.
Hagler, Leonard, Whitaker, Nelson, Chavez, and Spinks are locks in my mind. I would also add McCallum who was solid and spectacular throughout and Hearns. Come to think of it, McCallum and Hearns at jr middle would have been a great fight. Barrera is the best of the new generation. Jones and Hopkins fall short in the quality of opposition category.
For the last spot, I would go with Jung-Koo Chang. Unfortunately, I have never seen him fight. But from everything I have heard and read about him, he was a great fighter and willing to fight anybody.
Here's my 10:
Hagler
Leonard
Whitaker
Nelson
Chavez
Spinks
McCallum
Hearns
Barrera
Jung-Koo Chang
If looking at the last 25 years, I would have to omit Duran because the time period (1980-onwards) doesn't include any of his lightweight career. Duran didn't do nearly as well out of the lightweight division to be in with those other fighters. Arguello is also debatable because his best wins against Olivares and Escalera twice were in the 70s. None of his 80s wins stack up to those and Pryor beat him twice as well.
Hagler, Leonard, Whitaker, Nelson, Chavez, and Spinks are locks in my mind. I would also add McCallum who was solid and spectacular throughout and Hearns. Come to think of it, McCallum and Hearns at jr middle would have been a great fight. Barrera is the best of the new generation. Jones and Hopkins fall short in the quality of opposition category.
For the last spot, I would go with Jung-Koo Chang. Unfortunately, I have never seen him fight. But from everything I have heard and read about him, he was a great fighter and willing to fight anybody.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 13:11
Rory,
Jung-Koo Chang defended his light flyweight title 15 times. He beat quality opponents like Hilario Zapata, German Torres, and Sot Chitalada, all of whom were champions. He avenged his loss to Zapata in the same early KO style that Jones did with Griffin. When he came back after retirement, he fought Chitalada again and was robbed and was a one-punch 12th round KO against Kittikasem away from winning the title again.
Looking at RJ, Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, and Griffin stick out. He was 1-1 against Griffin, 1-2 against Tarver, and Hopkins was not nearly the same fighter then. Hopkins was dropped and drew with Segundo Mercado the year after the Jones fight. Not to mention the recent KO losses for Jones and the nonperformance against Tarver.
There is no question Jones is the more talented fighter with better skills. But as far as fighting in the ring, and in a P4P sense, I prefer the fighters that fight good opposition and are willing to take risky fights to prove themselves. Just because you don't know about Chang don't dismiss him without learning about him.
Jung-Koo Chang defended his light flyweight title 15 times. He beat quality opponents like Hilario Zapata, German Torres, and Sot Chitalada, all of whom were champions. He avenged his loss to Zapata in the same early KO style that Jones did with Griffin. When he came back after retirement, he fought Chitalada again and was robbed and was a one-punch 12th round KO against Kittikasem away from winning the title again.
Looking at RJ, Hopkins, Toney, Tarver, and Griffin stick out. He was 1-1 against Griffin, 1-2 against Tarver, and Hopkins was not nearly the same fighter then. Hopkins was dropped and drew with Segundo Mercado the year after the Jones fight. Not to mention the recent KO losses for Jones and the nonperformance against Tarver.
There is no question Jones is the more talented fighter with better skills. But as far as fighting in the ring, and in a P4P sense, I prefer the fighters that fight good opposition and are willing to take risky fights to prove themselves. Just because you don't know about Chang don't dismiss him without learning about him.
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Rory McCloskey
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 1042
- Joined: 29 Jun 2005, 13:11
Chang at his best was much better than Carbajal or Gonzalez.THose two are probably the most overrated of the lighter weight fighters because of the exposure they got in America.
I think he was P4P a better fighter than McCallum, Toney and Nelson among others on those lists.
You can't just go to boxrec and expect to know about Chang, though.You have to watch the fights of him in his short prime.He was like a little Duran.
I think he was P4P a better fighter than McCallum, Toney and Nelson among others on those lists.
You can't just go to boxrec and expect to know about Chang, though.You have to watch the fights of him in his short prime.He was like a little Duran.
re
Chang was a hell of a fighter...in my opinion much better than Carbajal, or Gonzalez.
It would be hard to leave Wilfredo Gomez out of the list as he was such a complete fighter who dominated and only started to slip after he was older. He had a bad night against Sanchez, though I don't think he could have ever beat Sanchez, but his other losses could be chalked up to a fighter past his prime!
It would be hard to leave Wilfredo Gomez out of the list as he was such a complete fighter who dominated and only started to slip after he was older. He had a bad night against Sanchez, though I don't think he could have ever beat Sanchez, but his other losses could be chalked up to a fighter past his prime!
I didn't put the list in roder but looking at it it's probably not that far out.
My idea is simply that if a fighter fought in the last 25 years then we can go abck to their prime even if that was the 1970s. So Duran and Arguello qualify for those reasons.
Missing Gomez was an error and I ahve toa dmit that Khaosai Galaxy should be on the list too as he was all but unbeatable at Jr bantam.
I knew I'd cop some flack for RJJ. He was a very talented fighter but I just think the guys in my top ten defeated better opposition. Roy gets 2 wins over HM guys but then so does Sanchez.
Anyway, are there any other embarrassing omissions?
My idea is simply that if a fighter fought in the last 25 years then we can go abck to their prime even if that was the 1970s. So Duran and Arguello qualify for those reasons.
Missing Gomez was an error and I ahve toa dmit that Khaosai Galaxy should be on the list too as he was all but unbeatable at Jr bantam.I knew I'd cop some flack for RJJ. He was a very talented fighter but I just think the guys in my top ten defeated better opposition. Roy gets 2 wins over HM guys but then so does Sanchez.
Anyway, are there any other embarrassing omissions?
You can't just go to boxrec and expect to know about Chang,
I actually checked boxingrec after my writing down my comment. I saw a few of Changs fights towards the end of his career and was judging him by those. Admittingly now he was alot better than i initially thought having just learned that he had came out of retirement a fight before fighting Gonzales. However i still dont believe he was better p4p then Jones, Toney or Hopskins.
I actually checked boxingrec after my writing down my comment. I saw a few of Changs fights towards the end of his career and was judging him by those. Admittingly now he was alot better than i initially thought having just learned that he had came out of retirement a fight before fighting Gonzales. However i still dont believe he was better p4p then Jones, Toney or Hopskins.