Earnie Shavers

[HomicideHenry]

The all-time power punching legend was on the show last night and made a claim that caught me a bit off guard when he said he felt he could kayo both Klitschko brothers in two or three rounds in his prime. Thoughts on this assumption that Earnie made? Jesus bless.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I definitely think he would wipe out Wlad. Vitali has a much stronger chin, doubtful on that one.

[HomicideHenry]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

[BoxBuzz]

Even though I think Wlad is the better over all, I would say he just might fold under Earnies power.

He SHOULD be able to beat Ernie, but I doubt he would get the job done. I would bet on him to fail.

Vitali would have Ernies number.

[Syntax Error]

Saad has beaten me to it as I was going to say almost exactly what he has said.

I think Shavers would have put Wladimir into orbit, although I am thinking of Wladimir pre 2006 & not the Wladimir since.

As for Vitali, I just can't see Shavers downing him. Vitali has one hell of a chin & it would take a monumental effect to spark him in 3 rounds, if at all.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

Ken Norton, Jimmy Young & Jimmy Ellis were far from no-names. Most of Wlad's knock out wins are against no-namers too. Those three guys are better than any fighters the Klitschko's have beaten. So when it comes to knocking out top competition there is a clear edge for Shavers. Not much of a point past the fact that Shavers chin wasn't great. He was well past it for Mercado & Cobb and they were both great fights. And earnie was far superior to Sam Peter. That's comical.

[gilgamesh]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

Ken Norton, Jimmy Young & Jimmy Ellis were far from no-names. Most of Wlad's knock out wins are against no-namers too. Those three guys are better than any fighters the Klitschko's have beaten. So when it comes to knocking out top competition there is a clear edge for Shavers. Not much of a point past the fact that Shavers chin wasn't great. He was well past it for Mercado & Cobb and they were both great fights. And earnie was far superior to Sam Peter. That's comical.

Vitali would beat Shavers, no doubt in my mind. Wladimir would have to be extremely careful in the first 6 or 7 rounds, but I think he could box his way to a decision victory over Shavers on his best night. It's certainly not out of the question that Shavers could catch Wlad sometime within the first 6 or 7 rounds. Earlier version of Wlad who was knocked out by Sanders and Brewster would surely lose to Shavers.

[HomicideHenry]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

Ken Norton, Jimmy Young & Jimmy Ellis were far from no-names. Most of Wlad's knock out wins are against no-namers too. Those three guys are better than any fighters the Klitschko's have beaten. So when it comes to knocking out top competition there is a clear edge for Shavers. Not much of a point past the fact that Shavers chin wasn't great. He was well past it for Mercado & Cobb and they were both great fights. And earnie was far superior to Sam Peter. That's comical.

When he fought Young the first time, it hardly qualifies considering Young only had a handful of fights. The rematch resulted in a draw. Norton, great as he was, had a soft chin as did Ellis. Not to take anything away from Earnie, but let's get real here, in two years he posted a 45-2 record. Quite amazing stuff, until you look at the record and see 90% of those wins came against men who were pro debuters, third tiers, and at best journeymen. And again, he lost to RON STANDER by KNOCKOUT in five rounds, when Earnie was an undefeated propspect. Wins over Ellis, a draw against Young, and Norton, imho just don't mean as much when you got one brother whose 2 fights away from tying Larry Holmes in title defenses, and another brother whose never been downed once in his career and managed to come back after 4 years inactivity and beat the living daylights out of a clone of Shavers (Peter).

[SaadOffTheDeck]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

Ken Norton, Jimmy Young & Jimmy Ellis were far from no-names. Most of Wlad's knock out wins are against no-namers too. Those three guys are better than any fighters the Klitschko's have beaten. So when it comes to knocking out top competition there is a clear edge for Shavers. Not much of a point past the fact that Shavers chin wasn't great. He was well past it for Mercado & Cobb and they were both great fights. And earnie was far superior to Sam Peter. That's comical.

When he fought Young the first time, it hardly qualifies considering Young only had a handful of fights. The rematch resulted in a draw. Norton, great as he was, had a soft chin as did Ellis. Not to take anything away from Earnie, but let's get real here, in two years he posted a 45-2 record. Quite amazing stuff, until you look at the record and see 90% of those wins came against men who were pro debuters, third tiers, and at best journeymen. And again, he lost to RON STANDER by KNOCKOUT in five rounds, when Earnie was an undefeated propspect. Wins over Ellis, a draw against Young, and Norton, imho just don't mean as much when you got one brother whose 2 fights away from tying Larry Holmes in title defenses, and another brother whose never been downed once in his career and managed to come back after 4 years inactivity and beat the living daylights out of a clone of Shavers (Peter).

You're a funny dude. Shameless twists and turns to suit your stance.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I'll see your Ron Stander and raise you a ROSS PURRITY!

[gilgamesh]

I'll see your Ron Stander and raise you a ROSS PURRITY!

The Wladmir who lost to Purrity and Sanders would lose to Shavers inside 2 rounds...probably in the 1st. It would have to be the modern day, far more defensive Wladmir to have a chance of beating Earnie. Even then he'd be in severe danger in the early rounds.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Sure, there is no reason to take someone at their worst in a mythical scenario. No more reason than to mention a well past it Shavers against Mercado & Cobb. I'm pretty sure he still managed to drop both of them anyway. Much tougher guys than Wlad. Henry likes to talk about age when it suits him and then he'll turn around and gloss about Gerry Cooney demolishing Norton and Lyle without a mention of their faded condition. I'd just ignore him, but the comedy is gold.

[HomicideHenry]

Sure, there is no reason to take someone at their worst in a mythical scenario. No more reason than to mention a well past it Shavers against Mercado & Cobb. I'm pretty sure he still managed to drop both of them anyway. Much tougher guys than Wlad. Henry likes to talk about age when it suits him and then he'll turn around and gloss about Gerry Cooney demolishing Norton and Lyle without a mention of their faded condition. I'd just ignore him, but the comedy is gold.

Not as humorous in my view as when Mike Delisa said Foreman took a dive against Tommy Morrison, and Phileppe St. John said Francesco Damiani would kayo Vladimir in five rounds, but to each their own brand of humor.

Cooney, for a man who fought nobody in their prime, was damn good considering what little opposition he went up against. As for Shavers, even in his prime I don't see him stopping Tex Cobb. Mercado, sure. The best Earnie Shavers there ever was, prime Shavers, was kayoed in one round by Jerry Quarry. Sure it took 20-30 power punches to do it in succession, but it was done. The Klitschko's are bigger, stronger, and harder punchers than Quarry. Vladimir's safety first style of course doesn't suit him well against a man like Shavers, but I think at THIS STAGE IN THE GAME he earns a close, unaminous decision just as he did against Samuel Peter. Vitali Klitschko on the other hand, absorbed tremendous shots from Lewis, Sanders, etc. and has never been dropped. He's one of the atg punchers himself, and considering he's blown away men Shavers size relatively easy, I can see him stopping Shavers inside of eight rounds. Too big, too strong, too skilled, too tough.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Go ahead and think what you want, I never said you're wrong. Wlad could stop Shavers. It's just ridiculous that you have the overwhelming need to fabricate bullshit in every discussion you have. If you don't have the chops for the conversation, make your prediction and move on.

[BoxBuzz]

Who knew this could possibly devolved into lack of appreciation for Quarry.

Quarry would do that to any version of Shavers that showed up. The K bros? Not so. IMHO.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Who knew this could possibly devolved into lack of appreciation for Quarry.

Quarry would do that to any version of Shavers that showed up. The K bros? Not so. IMHO.

Maybe Quarry would, Sam Peter wouldn't.

[gilgamesh]

Who knew this could possibly devolved into lack of appreciation for Quarry.

Quarry would do that to any version of Shavers that showed up. The K bros? Not so. IMHO.

Maybe Quarry would, Sam Peter wouldn't.

A Shavers-Sam Peter fight would be sloppy as hell in the later rounds (provided it gets there), with both men tired after bombing on each other early. That would be a pretty fun bout come to think of it...thinking about it a little more, I'd be surprised if this lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds. Someone's going to sleep here.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Who knew this could possibly devolved into lack of appreciation for Quarry.

Quarry would do that to any version of Shavers that showed up. The K bros? Not so. IMHO.

Maybe Quarry would, Sam Peter wouldn't.

A Shavers-Sam Peter fight would be sloppy as hell in the later rounds (provided it gets there), with both men tired after bombing on each other early. That would be a pretty fun bout come to think of it...thinking about it a little more, I'd be surprised if this lasted more than 4 or 5 rounds. Someone's going to sleep here.

Peter gets dusted early 9 out of 10 times. He wasn't even a good fighter.

[HomicideHenry]

Go ahead and think what you want, I never said you're wrong. Wlad could stop Shavers. It's just ridiculous that you have the overwhelming need to fabricate bullshit in every discussion you have. If you don't have the chops for the conversation, make your prediction and move on.

And what am I making up in this particular thread?

Who knew this could possibly devolved into lack of appreciation for Quarry.

Quarry would do that to any version of Shavers that showed up. The K bros? Not so. IMHO.

I didn't detract one iota from Quarry as a fighter. All I said was the Klitschko's punch harder than Quarry. Which isn't a stretch of the imagination when Quarry is the size of a modern day Cruiserweight and the Klitschko's are bigger than Jess Willard.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I suppose you haven't made anything up here. My bad, I've just grown used to it.

[BoxBuzz]

I might agree that the K bros could produce more "pounds per square inch thunder" than Quarry, but Quarry would be firing off far more rounds with excellent accuracy. A far more potent skill set. And let's face it he was no pitty patter. IMHO.

I also agree that Peter wouldn't be much more than target practice for most of the names here. I have to think that Shavers would bring him down, because Sam would be there to be hit and absorb the full impact.
I don't care who you are, if your going to just let Shavers in, your party ends early.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I might agree that the K bros could produce more "pounds per square inch thunder" than Quarry, but Quarry would be firing off far more rounds with excellent accuracy. A far more potent skill set. And let's face it he was no pitty patter. IMHO.

I also agree that Peter wouldn't be much more than target practice for most of the names here. I have to think that Shavers would bring him down, because Sam would be there to be hit and absorb the full impact.
I don't care who you are, if your going to just let Shavers in, your party ends early.

Peter was so crude he would make Shavers look technical.

[dempseyfire]

My problem with it all is, while Earnie was the hardest puncher of all time, he didn't have the best of chins either, or the best stamina. He was stopped by Ron Stander and Bernardo Mercado and Tex Cobb. Most of his wins were against relative no-namers. Not taking anything away from Earnie, his overhand right was devestating, but he could be out boxed, he could be out smarted, and he could also be out fought. Samuel Peter was an awful lot like Earnie (plus a chin and cardio) and he couldn't stop Vladimir or Vitali.

Did you just say Peter had stamina and chin advantages over Shavers?

Peter sucks . . he's a clubfighter who masqueraded as a contender in a division down the crapper. Shavers had far more skills and stamina than Peter . . he went 12 hard rounds with Holmes in their first fight going at a very fast pace, went 15 with Ali and ended strong, fought a disciplined tough fighter vs a very slippery Henry Clark and showcased an excellent snapping jab. He also showed a the ability to take a good shot, but often just fatigued late in fights, but against much fitter and superior opposition than Sam fought. Peter on the other hand got embarrassed by an obese 38 year old Toney, nearly KO'd by McCline, and wobbled by an geriatic Maskaev, the latter of which was his best win.

Shavers would enter the fight with the confidence knowing that he only needs to land one shot to win it. Sometime in the fight, while being outboxed by Wlad, he'll land it and it's curtains. Vitali on the other hand probably survives a few scary moments but stops Shavers late or wins a decision.