Is the great white hope a thing of the past ?

hurlock · Post by **hurlock** » 21 Mar 2013, 15:14

Heavyweight Boxing has lost it's razzmatazz lets say.

It's now the great black hope!! White fans want it more then most!!

Most decent coloured athletes want to be ballers, the money & fame & pool to earn are great. I think don king killed off alot of athletes getting drawn to boxing with all his robbing of purses

sucracristo · Post by **sucracristo** » 21 Mar 2013, 16:40

misterpunch wrote:not sure that jack kid berg LED a jewish contingent to anywhere. a very great fighter and a wonderful fella but he wasnt heading a vanguard of jewish boxing in the early 20th century. however, i get your idea

http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_ ... &cat=boxer

most of the new york boxers back then were jewish and the nysac title was the biggest
title in the world and new york was the biggest boxing center in the world. kind of nit picking
if using the word LED as if any boxer is the leader of all boxers. if someone said that so and so
ushered in a generation of so and sos, they aren't claiming they dressed in an usher uniform
to do it. there was a TON of jewish boxers in the northeast US back then, and many of the best
in the world were jewish, and this was true in many other sports as well.

you had irish and italians and poles and lots of waves of immigrants and boxing is something
you can do in a small storefront or basement. you don't need a field or a court or lots of money
to box and you can train all year. boxing was everywhere back then. everybody went to the fights
on the weekend. being poor doesn't make you a good boxer and being a boxer never really made
99% of the people who did it wealthy, or more wealthy than working. being a victim of discrimination
doesn't make you good at boxing, either. having good gymns in your area and people to train you
and having boxing influences is the biggest predictor. the best boxers i knew growing up were the
kids who had dad's who boxed and started teaching them when they were really young.

obviously i'm talking about in the states back then

sucracristo · Post by **sucracristo** » 21 Mar 2013, 17:11

joelouis1234 wrote: An Army Officer in the Ukraine or Professionals in general, including Teachers,Lawyers,Doctors etc do not attract anywhere near the same wages as those given in the West,although such occupations do pay more than the average wages in those countries, so unless you were a Russian or Ukrainian Oligarch, being the son of an army officer wouldn't give you a wealthy lifestyle in the Ukraine far from it.

not poor enough to make you box thinking it is going to make a difference financially.
none of those top guys first got into boxing with dollars signs dancing in their heads

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 22 Mar 2013, 00:11

Deserter wrote:Why does it matter? Surely we just all want to see some decent heavyweights, whether they're from the States, Europe, China, Polynesia....

That's not how the world works, sadly.

Most people in the world are small minded little bigots who can't see past a persons skin colour.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 22 Mar 2013, 00:35

joelouis1234 wrote:
MachoMan09 wrote:
joelouis1234 wrote:What we're seeing with the rise of Eastern European domination in the heavyweight division is a mirror image of the situation of black men in the 50s & 60s with thousands of poverty stricken,bitter and hungry men emerging from the collapse of the soviet union into a new society....
The Klitschkos are not from a poverty stricken background. They are the well educated sons of an army officer.

And not just an army officer - the sons of a four star general. I think their mum was a
doctor - and they still knocked the shit out of everyone. Tough lads for a pair of posh pudenda.

banjo · Post by **banjo** » 22 Mar 2013, 05:19

Posh people make better fighters than poor anyway, better training and nutrition.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 22 Mar 2013, 06:37

I think the 'great white hope' tag was specifically in reference to a white American heavyweight.

dookus · Post by **dookus** » 22 Mar 2013, 08:04

Ukrainians: so hard, their posh kids become boxing champions

sucracristo · Post by **sucracristo** » 22 Mar 2013, 09:00

Syntax Error wrote:I think the 'great white hope' tag was specifically in reference to a white American heavyweight.

nobody ever mentions gery coetzee's win over a coked-out michael dokes as a great white hope,
so it probably just applies to the gerry coony's, tommy morrissons, jerry quarry's.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 22 Mar 2013, 10:49

sucracristo wrote:
Syntax Error wrote:I think the 'great white hope' tag was specifically in reference to a white American heavyweight.
nobody ever mentions gery coetzee's win over a coked-out michael dokes as a great white hope,
so it probably just applies to the gerry coony's, tommy morrissons, jerry quarry's.

No more than Ingemar Johannson - the white hope has to be an American, Swedes, South
Africans and British fighters didn't count at all.

dekker1972 · Post by **dekker1972** » 22 Mar 2013, 11:29

sorry but if poverty and deprivation have anything to do with it then how come the top 3 hw fighters in the world all come from either privileged (klits) or comfortable middle class (haye) backgrounds?

misterpunch · Post by **misterpunch** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:10

lets put 2 and 2 together...the heavyweight scene has been dominated by the middle classes ever since...just before it stopped being a watchable sport.

hurlock · Post by **hurlock** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:16

Jack Johnson was the first black champion apparently decent black heavys wasn't given title shots prior to that & he ruled then we had joe Louis ,Ali from a great era then Holmes, Tyson,Holyfield & Lewis wladimir to me legacy wise is far the weaker brother & has come along way since losses to purity,Brewster & sanders & I think his competition has deteriated rather then him becoming great IMO.
What live opponents did he face in his rise???

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:16

dekker1972 wrote:sorry but if poverty and deprivation have anything to do with it then how come the top 3 hw fighters in the world all come from either privileged (klits) or comfortable middle class (haye) backgrounds?

I thought Haye was from Bermondsey

misterpunch · Post by **misterpunch** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:18

there are nice bits of bermondsey

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:19

jessi wrote:
Deserter wrote:
jessi wrote:"surely matters" because I took 30 seconds to throw a topic together ? Come on deserter, stop trying to be so politicly correct ! No ones racist, stop making a mountain out of a molehill as per usual
Jessi, 2 things:

1) Why am I trying to be politically correct?
2) How am I trying to make a mountain out of a molehill?

I thought I'd just made a pretty straightforward comment and the replies from most on here seem to support that view.
1, instead of answering a simple question you asked another question.
2, you just over Analyzed things to much.

Your either a politician or like assuming questions asked from other people are for personal reasons rather than interest.

If I could understand your response I'd have a go at replying

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:21

dekker1972 wrote:sorry but if poverty and deprivation have anything to do with it then how come the top 3 hw fighters in the world all come from either privileged (klits) or comfortable middle class (haye) backgrounds?

Just a small point, but if you watch the klit documentary it's clear their background wasn't privileged.

Coco · Post by **Coco** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:22

misterpunch wrote:there are nice bits of bermondsey

If you count Greenwich as Bermondsey! Just because Hayes is well adjusted, talks nicely and seems educated doesn't mean he was born with a silver spoon in I
His mouth, didn't he go to school with Jade Goody?

misterpunch · Post by **misterpunch** » 22 Mar 2013, 12:45

dunno about the school but youre quite right about haye's demeanor. he's clearly been brought up well whoever was involved.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:03

Deserter wrote:If I could understand your response I'd have a go at replying

Snide twerp.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:06

Horse wrote:
Deserter wrote:If I could understand your response I'd have a go at replying
Snide twerp.

Is that the same Horse who complains about people making snide comments about his posts? Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:10

Deserter wrote: Is that the same Horse who complains about people making snide comments about his posts? Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing

It is the opposite of hypocrisy. I don't like you being a snide bully to jessi either.

el_grande_mauro_mina · Post by **el_grande_mauro_mina** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:13

Horse wrote:
Deserter wrote: Is that the same Horse who complains about people making snide comments about his posts? Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing
It is the opposite of hypocrisy. I don't like you being a snide bully to jessi either.

God, you are a tit, Horse.

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:13

Fat Git wrote:
Horse wrote:
Deserter wrote: Is that the same Horse who complains about people making snide comments about his posts? Hypocrisy is a wonderful thing
It is the opposite of hypocrisy. I don't like you being a snide bully to jessi either.
God, you are a tit, Horse.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 22 Mar 2013, 13:17

Fat Git wrote:God, you are a tit, Horse.

I don't think highly of you either, Fat Git.

Is the great white hope a thing of the past ?

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