We, the people ,are to blame!!!

[dalcumly]

Drug cheats, criminals, wife beaters and all sort of life's scum ( broner for example) are allowed to continue boxing and making thousands because WE, allow it . We read about them, we pay to watch them fight ( live or on pay TV) and that is how they continue to earn. If a promoter or TV channel thought that the public would boycott their ring appearances then they wouldn't promote them.
Sanctioning bodies , TV channel executives and most promoters will do ANYTHING if they think they'll earn money, they will simply not avoid making money purely on the grounds of doing what is morally right.
Unfortunately old farts like me who can remember the days when the lad round the corner was a good dedicated boxer with a 'day job', his manager cared about his welfare , promoters took great pride in entertaining the fans and society rejected cheats, liars and assorted wasters are outnumbered by hundreds of thousands who simply don't care anymore.
Our sport is dying because mainstream society knows it's morally bankrupt. We'll still have the occasional 'big event' , but how many people are turning up at the town halls now ?

[JimJim2009]

I agree with that but its the same with football and, widening it out on a broader scale, politics - we know our politicians are self serving, opportunistic scum yet we still vote for the main parties.

[rm1]

Boxers are there to box and are appreciated as such. Boxing is not there to judge boxers as human beings. If they break the law or break boxing's rules they should be punished but otherwise what they do outside of boxing is relavant. The problem is the celebrity culture where if you are famous and have money you are looked up to regardlesss of your qualities as a human being. I like to watch mayweather and broner as boxers but at the same time have a low opinion of them as human beings and wouldn't dream of lauding them as human beings. The problem is a society where increasingly anything is excused of the rich. That is a big problem for society that crosses over into boxing but actually has nothing to do with two guys in a ring.

[Final round]

Ever since those fine upstanding fellows Carlos Monzon & Sonny Liston popped their clogs and good old Tyson, Ike and Golota hung em up ,boxing has gone to the dogs, I say gone to the dogs!

[dalcumly]

I don't know if you can remember the 3 footballers from the early 60's ( they either played with Wolves or Sheff Wed)who were found to be cheats in terms of betting. They were certainly not 'lionised' in fact they were humiliated , they are so forgotten that I can't even remember their names. I know this is only one example and you could probably name others were did achieve some sort of fame, but you have to agree, that in general terms bad behaviour , in or out of the ring , was not accepted.
I'll say it again, the Boxing News had 250,000 readers in the 50's and now its 10,000. That's a general indication of the lack of interest in boxing, and I'm suggesting it's due to the proliferation of titles , the disrespect shown by boxers to their opponents, drug usage, the price of watching it either live or on TV ,poor quality matchmaking, and the in-fighting between greedy promoters.
Would football die as well if the FA split into 3 organisations each with their own leagues, drug abuse was regular, every big match was PPV and live prices doubled, every week Man Utd and Chelsea were matched with York City and Aldershot and Paul Scholes said he's going to kill Steven Gerrard the next time they met on the park? Think about it, because this is what boxing has done to itself.

[dalcumly]

For every Monzon, Liston and Golota there's 10 Henry Coopers' , Richie Woodhalls, Barry McGuigans , Jim Watts , Marvin Haglers , etc etc, - so don't give me that nonsense !!

[dalcumly]

A very political statement not worthy of discussion on a boxing forum.

[jessi]

I agree with that but its the same with football and, widening it out on a broader scale, politics - we know our politicians are self serving, opportunistic scum yet we still vote for the main parties.

I don't vote

[Datsue]

I actually agree with the first part of your argument, mr culmly, but respectfully you've got your fuckin' head on backwards if you believe it hasn't ever been so, & the bit about "managers who cared for their fighters" made me so angry I actually spat in rage.

If thrust of your argument rested on the paradox that the business model of boxing (the "event tied to a personality" structure, usually with an ethnic angle) is about a hundred years out of date & still ties it to its fairground/folkloric origins, thus reducing it to a quaint sideshow in the modern world & providing the leeway necessary for its cast of sharks, criminals, shysters & assorted other dodgy pudenda to thrive, but that defeating this business model means cutting off the cash-flow to all those who the fans genuinely care about (i.e. the boxers themselves), then I'd agree with you.

This is the crux of it: to change it's got to come crashing down. Those at the top will suffer, but so will those at the bottom. Journeymen. Local ticket sellers who hold some Mickey Mouse bauble. Honest pros cashing in on a lifetime of being fvcked about.

It's like societal revolution: people sit around & whine about the state of the business but won't change themselves because it's their pockets that are gonna be hit, & also fvck me you never know the way that the system sits at the moment you might just get lucky! Someone has to get lucky! It might be me!

Thus boxing stays the same. It'll probably either be like this in the space year 2144, or the giant cockroaches ruling the planet by then will have outlawed it on the basis of its general lack of humanity.

But your nostalgia seems blinkered & poisonous to me: Sugar Ray Seales boxing whilst legally blind. Panama Al Brown dying broke & alone. Stanley Ketchel getting shot by the common-law husband of the woman who was cooking him breakfast. Jack Johnson getting the shaft for the colour of his skin & smiling a lot. Joe Louis dying broke & strung out. Carlos Monzon murdering his wife. Sonny Fuckin' Liston. Jimmy Norris fixing everything left right & centre. Frankie Carbo & Blinky fuckin' Palermo. Jack Solomons.

Every fighter who ever fuckin' died in the ring. Davey Moore. Benny "Kid" Paret. Ernie Schaaf. Every poor bastard ever used, exploited & thrown away.

It's always been a shit-hole that uses people & throws them away, & if you think that if, say, Jack Dempsey was caught doing something in the 1920s fans would turn their back in a kind of moral hissy fit, then you are completely off your fuckin' head on 100 % proof nostalgia. Part of the attraction was his image as a hobo draft dodger. He was a bad man. He traded on it.

"I can lick any man in the house," said John L. Sullivan, pissed up & threatening people in bars. Feted for it, in fact. Boxing is made of folk heroes & folk heroes, despite what your rose-tints may believe, are composed of the underbelly of what passes for society. Boxing comes out of that & trying to retroactively weld notions of "respect" & "fair play" on to it is just a bit weird, if you ask me.

Boxing's a pantomime, with a little bit of sport attached. We take people society casts as villains (immigrants, criminals, the unwanted detritus of the lumpenproletariat) & get high off their sporting prowess. We cheer their triumphs, we boo & hiss when they transgress. It's always been the same. Moaning that the same attitude that created this business is somehow new or that its effects in the modern world are unpleasant seems a touch churlish, to me.

Before I go: would I like to see boxing bought out by the mythical billionaire & re-jigged along altruistic lines of pure sporting prowess? Course. Is it gonna be? Don't be so fvcking naive. Do I love it? As I get older, less & less.

But I still love to see the fights.

[Quixall]

Very true, but like others have said, it's symptomatic of modern day society as a whole these days.

[Datsue]

Very true, but like others have said, it's symptomatic of modern day society as a whole these days.

& yeah, Blinkie Palermo was symptomatic of that society, & John L. Sullivan drawing the Colour Line was symptomatic of that society, & Sam Langford fighting for fvck-all was symptomatic of that society & Jack Johnson being locked up for liking white women was symptomatic of that society & on & on & fvcking on...

Daniel Mendoza: "The first Semitic the King [George III] ever suffered to touch" I believe is the quote. Symptomatic of that society.

Oh for a return to those halcyon prelapsarian Golden Ages.

[Quixall]

I don't know if you can remember the 3 footballers from the early 60's ( they either played with Wolves or Sheff Wed)who were found to be cheats in terms of betting. They were certainly not 'lionised' in fact they were humiliated , they are so forgotten that I can't even remember their names. I know this is only one example and you could probably name others were did achieve some sort of fame, but you have to agree, that in general terms bad behaviour , in or out of the ring , was not accepted.
I'll say it again, the Boxing News had 250,000 readers in the 50's and now its 10,000. That's a general indication of the lack of interest in boxing, and I'm suggesting it's due to the proliferation of titles , the disrespect shown by boxers to their opponents, drug usage, the price of watching it either live or on TV ,poor quality matchmaking, and the in-fighting between greedy promoters.
Would football die as well if the FA split into 3 organisations each with their own leagues, drug abuse was regular, every big match was PPV and live prices doubled, every week Man Utd and Chelsea were matched with York City and Aldershot and Paul Scholes said he's going to kill Steven Gerrard the next time they met on the park? Think about it, because this is what boxing has done to itself.

I like that last quote re what football would be like if it copied the antics of boxing. The sport is virtually dead on it's feet and has become a pantomine in recent years. As for the footballers, they all played for Sheffield Wednesday. The names were Tony Kay, Peter Swan and David Layne. Kay and Swan played for England. They were doing what every other footballer was doing in the 1950' and 60's. They would get a win bonus and so they bet against their own teams if they lost, so either way they got paid more than their average wage, which at the time was nowhere near today's values. I think the difference in this case, was that the money was bigger and an outside guy was involved in the betting scam that involved other players and other clubs. Swan, Kay and Layne were singled out because Sheff Wed were a big club and Swan and Kay were England internationals at the time. But betting on yourself to lose was rife, even Bobby Robson admitted that he did it and it was something that was commonplace back then.

[Quixall]

Very true, but like others have said, it's symptomatic of modern day society as a whole these days.

& yeah, Blinkie Palermo was symptomatic of that society, & John L. Sullivan drawing the Colour Line was symptomatic of that society, & Sam Langford fighting for fvck-all was symptomatic of that society & Jack Johnson being locked up for liking white women was symptomatic of that society & on & on & fvcking on...

Daniel Mendoza: "The first Semitic the King [George III] ever suffered to touch" I believe is the quote. Symptomatic of that society.

Oh for a return to those halcyon prelapsarian Golden Ages.

You seem to be a classic example of someone who uses flowery language and sounds dumb at the same time, which is quite a unique thing to achieve lol. You posts always go around the blocks a thousand times, when one sentance is all that is required. Your posts also seem to be written as if you are under the influence and yet i can almost see you finishing them with a wry grin and a self satisfied smug look on your face, as if to say " Huh, that's told em, the plebs " lol. My point was that boxing has always been a shit tip, so you aren't educating me there, but now society mirrors boxing, where as at one time it still had a level of decency at it's core, though by no means perfect. Also, the guys that ended up in shit street, ended up there because of who they were as people, nothing to do with boxing. No-one told Mozon to murder his wife lol. I look forward to reading more of your inane babble as you won't be able to stop yourself replying

[Quixall]

No,

Tunney would have said " fuk off you jumped up little shyt "

Or words to that effect.

[Quixall]

No,

Tunney would have said " fuk off you jumped up little shyt "

Or words to that effect.

I am 115.42% sure that Tunny would have not used that pronunciation of 'shyt'.

But i am 115.42% sure that if i hadd typed " shit " there was a possibilty that it would have been changed to " poo "

So, i deliberately changed the spelling to shyt, knowing that the word recognition system wouldn't realise i was saying shit.

You may possibly find that were i have typed shit, (shyt) it may now say poo.

Not as clever as you think are you

[forcefraser]

I don't know if you can remember the 3 footballers from the early 60's ( they either played with Wolves or Sheff Wed)who were found to be cheats in terms of betting. They were certainly not 'lionised' in fact they were humiliated , they are so forgotten that I can't even remember their names. I know this is only one example and you could probably name others were did achieve some sort of fame, but you have to agree, that in general terms bad behaviour , in or out of the ring , was not accepted.
I'll say it again, the Boxing News had 250,000 readers in the 50's and now its 10,000. That's a general indication of the lack of interest in boxing, and I'm suggesting it's due to the proliferation of titles , the disrespect shown by boxers to their opponents, drug usage, the price of watching it either live or on TV ,poor quality matchmaking, and the in-fighting between greedy promoters.
Would football die as well if the FA split into 3 organisations each with their own leagues, drug abuse was regular, every big match was PPV and live prices doubled, every week Man Utd and Chelsea were matched with York City and Aldershot and Paul Scholes said he's going to kill Steven Gerrard the next time they met on the park? Think about it, because this is what boxing has done to itself.

250,000 readers down to 10,000? You think this is due to drug usage? Come on fella, surely you have heard of t'internet? People don't do written word as much these days.

If you wanted info in the 50's. You bought a mag. Same as if you wanted to knock one out. These days you just go online. Nothing to do with drug usage or proliferation of titles.

[Quixall]

I don't know if you can remember the 3 footballers from the early 60's ( they either played with Wolves or Sheff Wed)who were found to be cheats in terms of betting. They were certainly not 'lionised' in fact they were humiliated , they are so forgotten that I can't even remember their names. I know this is only one example and you could probably name others were did achieve some sort of fame, but you have to agree, that in general terms bad behaviour , in or out of the ring , was not accepted.
I'll say it again, the Boxing News had 250,000 readers in the 50's and now its 10,000. That's a general indication of the lack of interest in boxing, and I'm suggesting it's due to the proliferation of titles , the disrespect shown by boxers to their opponents, drug usage, the price of watching it either live or on TV ,poor quality matchmaking, and the in-fighting between greedy promoters.
Would football die as well if the FA split into 3 organisations each with their own leagues, drug abuse was regular, every big match was PPV and live prices doubled, every week Man Utd and Chelsea were matched with York City and Aldershot and Paul Scholes said he's going to kill Steven Gerrard the next time they met on the park? Think about it, because this is what boxing has done to itself.

250,000 readers down to 10,000? You think this is due to drug usage? Come on fella, surely you have heard of t'internet? People don't do written word as much these days.

If you wanted info in the 50's. You bought a mag. Same as if you wanted to knock one out. These days you just go online. Nothing to do with drug usage or proliferation of titles.

Nice link up mate, boxing and having a shuffle of the knuckle, no pun intended.

[Quixall]

LOLOLOLOLOL

No you aren't and your a little pissed that i made you look a fool. Anyone who self proclaims their intelligence is never as smart as they think lol. Anyone who even takes this board / forum seriously certainly isn't normal and Datsue just uses obsfication and dissemblement covered in fancy language to make simple points seem much more complex than they are.

Simples

[Datsue]

Guilty as charged: I hate prog rock.

[Datsue]

Also hilariously ironic that the person who cannot spell & apparently has trouble with polysyllabic words is the one obsessed with the intelligence level of others.

Almost like they know they're fuckin' stupid & are troubled by it. I shall save the personal attacks for another day, as they have yet to actually construct one sentence that makes any sense whatsoever.

PS: They're also too fucking cuntingly stupid to be able to work out how to be beat the anti-swearing thing properly, which, when they do it in a post disrespecting another's intelligence, is wildly ironic. & funny as shit.

[Quixall]

Also hilariously ironic that the person who cannot spell & apparently has trouble with polysyllabic words is the one obsessed with the intelligence level of others.

Almost like they know they're fuckin' stupid & are troubled by it. I shall save the personal attacks for another day, as they have yet to actually construct one sentence that makes any sense whatsoever.

PS: They're also too fucking cuntingly stupid to be able to work out how to be beat the anti-swearing thing properly, which, when they do it in a post disrespecting another's intelligence, is wildly ironic. & funny as shit.

Great LOLOLOLOL

I knew you would have to reply...........................classic

Another guy who takes this forum seriously and gets revved up by it's content and what others say lol.

Take the fish hook from your mouth and let me throw you back in the pond

[Datsue]

Great LOLOLOLOL

I knew you would have to reply...........................classic

Another guy who takes this forum seriously and gets revved up by it's content and what others say lol.

Take the fish hook from your mouth and let me throw you back in the pond

What a funny little man you are.

EDIT: Actually, no, I've got time, I'm being paid for this. Right. So, I respond to a post. You respond with no actual argument but a barrage of personal insults. You extend this for half a dozen posts of the worst name-calling (worst as in "most pathetic & childlike") I've seen for a while.

You include a primary-school level "I bet you're even gonna respond to this! HAHAHAHA!"

I respond, which obviously makes you happy.

& now you are somehow claiming a victory* because... Er. No, you've lost me. You started on me, swore at me, I swore back. & you have the moral high ground?



*: again, I don't think I've ever celebrated a "victory" on a messageboard. You are doing this now, every post. & I'm the one who takes this stuff seriously?

[Quixall]

Great LOLOLOLOL

I knew you would have to reply...........................classic

Another guy who takes this forum seriously and gets revved up by it's content and what others say lol.

Take the fish hook from your mouth and let me throw you back in the pond

What a funny little man you are.

Just for clarification: what the flying fuck are you talking about now, you fuckin' moron? I realise that by asking this I'm possibly entering into a whole new world of intellectual pain, but I'm being paid to sit here talking to you, which must make a change from insulting your various handlers & home-helps as they empty your bedpan & make sure you haven't soiled your bib. Again.

LOLOLOLOLOL

Oh no, not again !!

Don't you learn or do you like making yourself angry and all bitter inside with pent up fustration D

Stop smoking what you are obviously on and just chilllllllllllllllll.

I love it that people like you actually care what people say on this nerds forum lol

love you, kissy kissy xx

[Datsue]

So, if I call you a fuckin' cunt, out of the blue, for no apparent reason, & you respond, I would be in some way superior?

Or does it only work if you do it?

& I am perfectly calm, thank you for the concern for my wellbeing.

[Quixall]

So, if I call you a fuckin' cunt, out of the blue, for no apparent reason, & you respond, I would be in some superior?

Or does it only work if you do it?

& I am perfectly calm, thank you for the concern for my wellbeing.

I have used no swear words at you lol

You are winding yourself up, hence you childish language about bed pans and you say i used childish language lol

As you would say " Oh the irony, it's so funny "

I don't care whether you respond or not, but i know you can't help yourself, YOU HAVE TOO RESPOND LOL

You get into super complex analogy of conversations and actually spend time trying to work out logic to it LOLOLOLOL

There is no logic, it's just a shit boxing forum full of nerds, keyboard warriers, social miss fits and the unemployed lol

But i still loves ya