For those who don't know him, Gavin Henson is an international Rugby player with a huge figure sponsorship deal with Nike and shagging million teen "angel" Charlotte Church. Getting more famous for that than his on field antics.
He has publshed a book (out soon) called my Grand slam year, which has enraged The Lions team, past greats and even Welsh management.
Highlights of it include.
1) Criticising (but not mentioning names) players of the Lions squad for not being up to scratch.
2) Criticising (and naming names) the Lions coaching staff and coaching techniques of SCW inparticular - I don't blame him here.
3). Criticising the Lions Captain, Brian O Driscoll - accusing him of all sorts of dirty shanangans in the game between Wales and Ireland (gauging his eye) and also criticising his captency.
4) Critising the Welsh Rugby Union (and mentioning two of his club teamates as the names) for picking players not born in Wales to play for Wales. I missed it but apparently, Mike Ruddock (Welsh coach) was quite angered at him on Welsh TV today. Outgoing WRU chief executive, David Moffett also had a go saying he should stick to Rugby instead of being famous for his Girlfriend. These two players - Brent Cockbain and Sonny Parker not only play with him for Wales, but for his club (well region) and Parker is his centre partner.
He is going to be such a marked man when he returns from fitness, only hope he has got the game to back it up - people will go out there and try to kill him. If O Driscoll was dirty to him before, what will he be like now.
Fair enough if he wants to make a quick buck, and if he believes these views he shares then okay - but surely he should just bite his lip. I am almost certain that many players were not happy with the Lions tour - but you will not hear many players gob off about it to make money. Its called "biting your lip" - this is what Jason Robinson believes Henson should have done.
He's not the brightest of sparks, I've heard his best GCSE grade was an E.
Off topic - Gav Henson, misunderstood, right, or prick?
He may well be a prick but totally agree with him that living in this country for 3 years shouldnt really entitle you to play for Wales or any other country.Even though its helped Wales the residency rule doesnt sit well with me.Im Welsh and could live somewhere else for a 100 years but could never represent another country.I would be gutted to see a foreigner blocking my way into the national side.The foriengers can never really understand the passion we have for our country or the 'hiraeth' only a welsh man can feel.
Couldn't agree more, mate.bish wrote:He may well be a prick but totally agree with him that living in this country for 3 years shouldnt really entitle you to play for Wales or any other country.Even though its helped Wales the residency rule doesnt sit well with me.Im Welsh and could live somewhere else for a 100 years but could never represent another country.I would be gutted to see a foreigner blocking my way into the national side.The foriengers can never really understand the passion we have for our country or the 'hiraeth' only a welsh man can feel.
An interesting question, Stu. And, given that Rugby is the one sport I can claim a decent level of playing understanding in, one I'll try to answer.
You ask whether he is 'misunderstood, right, or prick'. As ever, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It's obvious he loves the attention, and has done long before he hooked up with Ms. Church. Now, if what you say is right about his intelligence, it's easy to believe he's misunderstood: He loves the limelight, that much is obvious; and I can see him being lead into statements that provide headlines. So maybe he's not being truly represented by the words that are attributed to him.
That said, he's not helping himself. Plenty of people are criticising the Lions set-up (myself included) and he's probably right in what he says about the trip. Certainly, SCW got things wrong, and I'm an English fan prepared to defend Woodward to the hilt. But, as you say, other players no doubt feel the same, but they're not voicing their opinions to make money. The press have been dying for a Rugby player to play the Beckham role ever since England won the world cup. Wilkinson refused to have anything to do with it, and Johnson would probably have killed the first Journo who suggested it. Henson, however, fits the bill: Star player of a Grand Slam winning team, celebrity girlfriend, and happy to wear a dodgy haircut. (See also: Kevin Pietersen, for the Cricket Equivalent)
The difference is, Henson hasn't established himself at the top level yet: He is undoubtably talented (Although he's not as good as he thinks he is) but Wilkinson, the original target of 'Hello' magazine had won the Grand Slam, the World Cup, and beaten every team in the world (and been described by no less than Johnathan Davies as the best Fly-Half ever to play the game). Henson isn't anywhere near that level yet: He has the ability, but not the achievements.
Some of his comments, however, are going to land him in BIG trouble. I actually agree with his comments about players whoring themselves out to any Nation that will have them, be that Cockbain for Wales, Rathbone for Australia, the recent choice of Van Gisbergen for England, or the dozens of players New Zealand have chosen. But you can't say it when you play with these guys. I speak from experience when I say that Rugby is a sport you cannot get away with that sort of thing.
First of all, Henson has to play with these guys: What is he meant to say in the dressing room? Rugby is a serious team sport, in my opinion, where you expect everyone to have your back. Can Henson expect that now?
Secondly, he's been insulting people by name from the Lions tour. That really isn't smart. I've never considered it a good idea in any sport, because it only fires up the opposition. Now, as we're on a boxing forum, maybe you can say it would undermine an opponent in the ring, a la Gatti-Mayweather, and Mayweather would come out on top because he's that much better, and all the talk gave him a pyschological advantage. It won't work in Rugby, because Henson has to face O'Driscoll at some point. And not only is O'Driscoll better than Henson, but he can call on someone like Paul O'Connell to hurt Henson when he's not looking.
In summary, Henson is a very talented player, who isn't quite as good as he thinks he is (although, in fairness, he'd have to be a combination of Gareth Edwards, JPR Williams, Martin Johnson, Shaun Edwards, Billy Boston, Mal Maninga, John Eales, Mark Ella, Johnny Wilkinson and Gary Connolly for that to be true, or at least so it seems....), who should have kept his mouth shut, in my opinion. He is a real talent, though, with his best years ahead of him (And this is coming from an Englishman!) but he's not doing himself any favours Stu: Tindall, for instance, is going to be looking to hammer him in the 6 nations, and Josh Lewsey is going to be lining up his tackles from 50 yards away. And that's just England!. I like the approach Martin Johnson mentions in his biography: Don't try and fire teams up before you play them. Everyone is fired up to play Wales now, because of Henson's comments, I do think he's setting himself up for a fall.
Still, 6 nations should be interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to it.
You ask whether he is 'misunderstood, right, or prick'. As ever, the answer lies somewhere in the middle. It's obvious he loves the attention, and has done long before he hooked up with Ms. Church. Now, if what you say is right about his intelligence, it's easy to believe he's misunderstood: He loves the limelight, that much is obvious; and I can see him being lead into statements that provide headlines. So maybe he's not being truly represented by the words that are attributed to him.
That said, he's not helping himself. Plenty of people are criticising the Lions set-up (myself included) and he's probably right in what he says about the trip. Certainly, SCW got things wrong, and I'm an English fan prepared to defend Woodward to the hilt. But, as you say, other players no doubt feel the same, but they're not voicing their opinions to make money. The press have been dying for a Rugby player to play the Beckham role ever since England won the world cup. Wilkinson refused to have anything to do with it, and Johnson would probably have killed the first Journo who suggested it. Henson, however, fits the bill: Star player of a Grand Slam winning team, celebrity girlfriend, and happy to wear a dodgy haircut. (See also: Kevin Pietersen, for the Cricket Equivalent)
The difference is, Henson hasn't established himself at the top level yet: He is undoubtably talented (Although he's not as good as he thinks he is) but Wilkinson, the original target of 'Hello' magazine had won the Grand Slam, the World Cup, and beaten every team in the world (and been described by no less than Johnathan Davies as the best Fly-Half ever to play the game). Henson isn't anywhere near that level yet: He has the ability, but not the achievements.
Some of his comments, however, are going to land him in BIG trouble. I actually agree with his comments about players whoring themselves out to any Nation that will have them, be that Cockbain for Wales, Rathbone for Australia, the recent choice of Van Gisbergen for England, or the dozens of players New Zealand have chosen. But you can't say it when you play with these guys. I speak from experience when I say that Rugby is a sport you cannot get away with that sort of thing.
First of all, Henson has to play with these guys: What is he meant to say in the dressing room? Rugby is a serious team sport, in my opinion, where you expect everyone to have your back. Can Henson expect that now?
Secondly, he's been insulting people by name from the Lions tour. That really isn't smart. I've never considered it a good idea in any sport, because it only fires up the opposition. Now, as we're on a boxing forum, maybe you can say it would undermine an opponent in the ring, a la Gatti-Mayweather, and Mayweather would come out on top because he's that much better, and all the talk gave him a pyschological advantage. It won't work in Rugby, because Henson has to face O'Driscoll at some point. And not only is O'Driscoll better than Henson, but he can call on someone like Paul O'Connell to hurt Henson when he's not looking.
In summary, Henson is a very talented player, who isn't quite as good as he thinks he is (although, in fairness, he'd have to be a combination of Gareth Edwards, JPR Williams, Martin Johnson, Shaun Edwards, Billy Boston, Mal Maninga, John Eales, Mark Ella, Johnny Wilkinson and Gary Connolly for that to be true, or at least so it seems....), who should have kept his mouth shut, in my opinion. He is a real talent, though, with his best years ahead of him (And this is coming from an Englishman!) but he's not doing himself any favours Stu: Tindall, for instance, is going to be looking to hammer him in the 6 nations, and Josh Lewsey is going to be lining up his tackles from 50 yards away. And that's just England!. I like the approach Martin Johnson mentions in his biography: Don't try and fire teams up before you play them. Everyone is fired up to play Wales now, because of Henson's comments, I do think he's setting himself up for a fall.
Still, 6 nations should be interesting. I'm certainly looking forward to it.
Last edited by states on 17 Oct 2005, 22:53, edited 1 time in total.
Really hard to say, lvlarc. I still think England have the most talented group of players to choose from. Not surprising, you may say, given the sheer number we have to chose from, compared to the Celtic nations, but I don't think Robinson is the right choice as coach. Wales have the momentum, as winners, Ireland are still strong (although destined to be nearlymen, despite the genius of O'Driscoll, and the undoubted quality of players such as O'Connell and Hickey (when on form) Stringer, however, is an awful Scrum-half: He takes forever to get the ball away), Scotland have too much ground to make up, and Italy won't contend for a good few years yet.
So, as much as it pains me to say it, I tip France for next year: I think they'll be the best of an inconsistent bunch. Did you notice, btw, that Stadt Francais got a home gate of over 76 thousand for their opening league game last weekend? That is unreal.
So, as much as it pains me to say it, I tip France for next year: I think they'll be the best of an inconsistent bunch. Did you notice, btw, that Stadt Francais got a home gate of over 76 thousand for their opening league game last weekend? That is unreal.
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Old bones Ian
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Re: Off topic - Gav Henson, misunderstood, right, or prick?
Did he mention himself in the list of players not up to scratch?stujones wrote:
Highlights of it include.
1) Criticising (but not mentioning names) players of the Lions squad for not being up to scratch.
Good stuff states
Henson, well, he seems to be heading for a kicking at
a. club training
b. national team training
c. next time he plays anyone else from the Lions tour.
He's been a little silly, I fancy. Selling out your team-mates when you're that age is daft. He's got ten years (two Lions tours) of a career left and everbody has suddenly gone from thinking he was talented but dim to having them think he's a proper arsehole.
Still, he'll sell lots of books, make lots of money, play sport for a living and have lots of lovely nookie with a foxy teenage millionairess.
There are worse situations for the lad.
But whoever 'advised' him about this book wants shooting.
France are going to piss all over the 6N.
Henson, well, he seems to be heading for a kicking at
a. club training
b. national team training
c. next time he plays anyone else from the Lions tour.
He's been a little silly, I fancy. Selling out your team-mates when you're that age is daft. He's got ten years (two Lions tours) of a career left and everbody has suddenly gone from thinking he was talented but dim to having them think he's a proper arsehole.
Still, he'll sell lots of books, make lots of money, play sport for a living and have lots of lovely nookie with a foxy teenage millionairess.
There are worse situations for the lad.
But whoever 'advised' him about this book wants shooting.
France are going to piss all over the 6N.
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BunglesFingers
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Henson makes some valid points but really should have kept quiet.
If history teaches sportsmen anything it is that you don't slag off the people around you in a crappy autobiography. He'll get some stick this season for sure.
What is he writing a book for anyway? He was a nobody until last year and obviously loves himself far too much.
If history teaches sportsmen anything it is that you don't slag off the people around you in a crappy autobiography. He'll get some stick this season for sure.
What is he writing a book for anyway? He was a nobody until last year and obviously loves himself far too much.
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Old bones Ian
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exceleltn stuff not sure I can add much more to whats been said.
Henson is a justified prick is about the summing up of it.
Justified in his rugby comments regariding the running of the lions and the management, but to off load (scuse the pun) detasisl of what happen in a a game years after is fronwened upon especially by curent players.
Added tot his I dont even think he is very good, and Im sorry you have a welsh David beckham. More fmous for his antics off the field than on them.
A player so cauight up in his own press he forgets that he has to go out there and do it week after week.
Frqnce will win the six natrions and Enlgand will beat wales at twickenham.
final Standings
France
England
Wales
Ireland
Scotland
Italy
Henson is a justified prick is about the summing up of it.
Justified in his rugby comments regariding the running of the lions and the management, but to off load (scuse the pun) detasisl of what happen in a a game years after is fronwened upon especially by curent players.
Added tot his I dont even think he is very good, and Im sorry you have a welsh David beckham. More fmous for his antics off the field than on them.
A player so cauight up in his own press he forgets that he has to go out there and do it week after week.
Frqnce will win the six natrions and Enlgand will beat wales at twickenham.
final Standings
France
England
Wales
Ireland
Scotland
Italy
Here is Cockbains' dignified response - this is how it should be done.
Henson's Wales and Ospreys team-mate Brent Cockbain insists he has no problem with the controversial star's comments.
That is despite the fact that Australian-born Cockbain would not be eligible for Wales if Henson's views on international eligibility were put into practice.
Henson says that players qualifying through a Welsh grandparent or the three-year residency rule should not be allowed to represent Wales.
"I think Gavin raising this issue to debate is good," said Cockbain, who came to Wales in 1999 and whose brother Matt is a Wallaby international.
"Everyone's entitled to their opinion and that's all this is, fair play to him for going out on a limb.
"He's my team-mate and we get on very well. When we get back to training there'll be a bit of banter, it's all good fun
I'm very Welsh, I've got my allotment, a house here, both my children were born here and my wife's Welsh.
"My son Toby's charity raises money for sick kids with cancer and that's based totally in Wales.
"When you make your decision to play in a country other than that of your birth there's no going back.
"I came to Pontypridd and I loved the valleys mentality and people, I stayed because I enjoyed it so much.
"The young Welsh talent is pushing through anyway, and you have to ask where you draw the line.
"There are Welsh players who were born in England, and players born in Wales but who have spent all their life in England.
"In this day and age people don't go out of their way to move somewhere to gain the three-year residency - it's just a natural progression in their life."
Henson's Wales and Ospreys team-mate Brent Cockbain insists he has no problem with the controversial star's comments.
That is despite the fact that Australian-born Cockbain would not be eligible for Wales if Henson's views on international eligibility were put into practice.
Henson says that players qualifying through a Welsh grandparent or the three-year residency rule should not be allowed to represent Wales.
"I think Gavin raising this issue to debate is good," said Cockbain, who came to Wales in 1999 and whose brother Matt is a Wallaby international.
"Everyone's entitled to their opinion and that's all this is, fair play to him for going out on a limb.
"He's my team-mate and we get on very well. When we get back to training there'll be a bit of banter, it's all good fun
I'm very Welsh, I've got my allotment, a house here, both my children were born here and my wife's Welsh.
"My son Toby's charity raises money for sick kids with cancer and that's based totally in Wales.
"When you make your decision to play in a country other than that of your birth there's no going back.
"I came to Pontypridd and I loved the valleys mentality and people, I stayed because I enjoyed it so much.
"The young Welsh talent is pushing through anyway, and you have to ask where you draw the line.
"There are Welsh players who were born in England, and players born in Wales but who have spent all their life in England.
"In this day and age people don't go out of their way to move somewhere to gain the three-year residency - it's just a natural progression in their life."
I agree with the top 3, but I think the Irish are going to dissapoint this year - they were aging last yearand have suffered with more retirements. Having watched the Celtic League this season - I think Scotland have turned the corner, I actually tip them to beat the Irish. They are a young side, who showed some good flashes last year (the outscored Wales by a fair amount in the second half). They have now got 3 regions doing well, most of whom are Scotish players.J wrote:exceleltn stuff not sure I can add much more to whats been said.
Henson is a justified prick is about the summing up of it.
Justified in his rugby comments regariding the running of the lions and the management, but to off load (scuse the pun) detasisl of what happen in a a game years after is fronwened upon especially by curent players.
Added tot his I dont even think he is very good, and Im sorry you have a welsh David beckham. More fmous for his antics off the field than on them.
A player so cauight up in his own press he forgets that he has to go out there and do it week after week.
Frqnce will win the six natrions and Enlgand will beat wales at twickenham.
final Standings
France
England
Wales
Ireland
Scotland
Italy
Without defending Henson, players like him are a target and with his out going personality i sure he ruffles everyones feathers on and off the rugby pitch, so these "revelations" that have come out of his book do not come as that much as a suprise to me. I personally think he is good but not great and he was probably annoyed on the lions tour that another center (bod) was taking the lime light away from him. He did have an excellent 6 nations last year, but can he repeat it this year ? Who knows.
If he does i'll take my hat off to him, but he does need to understand that most great sportsman are as good off the field as they are on it, a few names mentioned in previous post prove that.
I'm gonna disagree with most and say that England will win the six nations, as i think France have been very inconsistent over the last 12 months (not that England havent), although i don't think you can discount Wales.
If he does i'll take my hat off to him, but he does need to understand that most great sportsman are as good off the field as they are on it, a few names mentioned in previous post prove that.
I'm gonna disagree with most and say that England will win the six nations, as i think France have been very inconsistent over the last 12 months (not that England havent), although i don't think you can discount Wales.
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Old bones Ian
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Old bones Ian
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It's alright for you lot to joke about it, but I bloody live in Merthyrtopper123 wrote:I have been to Merthyr, now that is a rough place.Coconut wrote:You haven't been to Merthyr recently, have you. It's like Xanadu.topper123 wrote:Good response by Cockbain, but will he still live in Wales once his playing career is over, or will he be on the beach in Australia?
I don't know about Xanadu but if you like a fight then it's Utopia around here.
topper, where are you from, mate?
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Old bones Ian
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live on the Isle of Wight, not to bad down here.Owain wrote:It's alright for you lot to joke about it, but I bloody live in Merthyrtopper123 wrote:I have been to Merthyr, now that is a rough place.Coconut wrote: You haven't been to Merthyr recently, have you. It's like Xanadu.
I don't know about Xanadu but if you like a fight then it's Utopia around here.
topper, where are you from, mate?
Isle of Wight eh, I can see now why visiting Merthyr must have been a bit of a shock to you.topper123 wrote:live on the Isle of Wight, not to bad down here.Owain wrote:It's alright for you lot to joke about it, but I bloody live in Merthyrtopper123 wrote: I have been to Merthyr, now that is a rough place.
I don't know about Xanadu but if you like a fight then it's Utopia around here.
topper, where are you from, mate?
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Old bones Ian
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yeah there wasn't as many bikini clad girls on the beach there , or a beach come to think of it..Owain wrote:Isle of Wight eh, I can see now why visiting Merthyr must have been a bit of a shock to you.topper123 wrote:live on the Isle of Wight, not to bad down here.Owain wrote: It's alright for you lot to joke about it, but I bloody live in Merthyr
I don't know about Xanadu but if you like a fight then it's Utopia around here.
topper, where are you from, mate?
Wales does have some beutiful places as well though, been up a couple of mountains there.
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Achybreaky
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Re: Off topic - Gav Henson, misunderstood, right, or prick?
stujones wrote:For those who don't know him, Gavin Henson is an international Rugby player with a huge figure sponsorship deal with Nike and shagging million teen "angel" Charlotte Church. Getting more famous for that than his on field antics.
He has publshed a book (out soon) called my Grand slam year, which has enraged The Lions team, past greats and even Welsh management.
Highlights of it include.
1) Criticising (but not mentioning names) players of the Lions squad for not being up to scratch.
2) Criticising (and naming names) the Lions coaching staff and coaching techniques of SCW inparticular - I don't blame him here.
3). Criticising the Lions Captain, Brian O Driscoll - accusing him of all sorts of dirty shanangans in the game between Wales and Ireland (gauging his eye) and also criticising his captency.
4) Critising the Welsh Rugby Union (and mentioning two of his club teamates as the names) for picking players not born in Wales to play for Wales. I missed it but apparently, Mike Ruddock (Welsh coach) was quite angered at him on Welsh TV today. Outgoing WRU chief executive, David Moffett also had a go saying he should stick to Rugby instead of being famous for his Girlfriend. These two players - Brent Cockbain and Sonny Parker not only play with him for Wales, but for his club (well region) and Parker is his centre partner.
He is going to be such a marked man when he returns from fitness, only hope he has got the game to back it up - people will go out there and try to kill him. If O Driscoll was dirty to him before, what will he be like now.
Fair enough if he wants to make a quick buck, and if he believes these views he shares then okay - but surely he should just bite his lip. I am almost certain that many players were not happy with the Lions tour - but you will not hear many players gob off about it to make money. Its called "biting your lip" - this is what Jason Robinson believes Henson should have done.
He's not the brightest of sparks, I've heard his best GCSE grade was an E.
charlotte to gav "hey gav you should write a book now because you have been exposed to the public for more than 5 minutes and they would love to read about the really hard time you have been getting recently" Gav to charlotte "thats a great idea love i'll write a book slaggin off people that have done more in rugby and that are better players than me specially that odriscoll one cos he stuck his finger up my bum in the scrum one time that'll make me popular and show everybody how deep and clever i am"
Stupid twat in my book 'what goes on tour stays on tour' should be funny watching him get kicked up and down every rugby pitch he walks onto now. "not the hair, leave the hair alone" Crunch!!