Cleland Miners Welfare, Friday 24th May. Prospect Boxing

[billy nelson]

If the boxers want to get some work by getting fights and are asked to sell x amount of tickets to be given that chance then whats the problem ?

Why dont you guys agree with that ? ive seen it said pretty often lately on here .

The promoter is the one taking the financial risk and the only person not guranteed to be paid , its only fair he has a way to cover his arse , its either that or there being less shows , less work for boxers and thus the sport being even more marginalised .

It's a promoters job to promote,if a fighter makes it big time that promoter will do very very well out of it.

[billy nelson]

billy i have been to some of alex shows where the boxing has been poor, the main one that springs to mind is when your lad edgar made his debut in the gorbals, you slag off everyone you are not associated with and money is your god, if it wasnt for ricky you would have no-one and you should remember that.

i thought scott Edgar with limited experience fought very well against Barry and unlucky not to get a draw against someone much more experienced.
Now take your jealous hole fora shite mate

[billy nelson]

If the boxers want to get some work by getting fights and are asked to sell x amount of tickets to be given that chance then whats the problem ?

Why dont you guys agree with that ? ive seen it said pretty often lately on here .

The promoter is the one taking the financial risk and the only person not guranteed to be paid , its only fair he has a way to cover his arse , its either that or there being less shows , less work for boxers and thus the sport being even more marginalised .

a lot of goes on in small hall boxing- its not ideal ,in an ideal world it wouldent have to happen but it does. I remember seeing mickey helliot speaking on bunceys show the other week he said the same thing and im sure Carl Greaves was on ringside last years (who are both part of lifeblood of the sport) saying the same about their guys . I just wish we could all pull together instead of trying to create division and put each other down....

Iagree small hall shows are the life and soul but instead of just pulling a fighter off the show,why not come to an agreement to pay him less and the manager not taking his percentage? surely that's ideal for all concerned

[spudder56]

If the boxers want to get some work by getting fights and are asked to sell x amount of tickets to be given that chance then whats the problem ?

Why dont you guys agree with that ? ive seen it said pretty often lately on here .

The promoter is the one taking the financial risk and the only person not guranteed to be paid , its only fair he has a way to cover his arse , its either that or there being less shows , less work for boxers and thus the sport being even more marginalised .

a lot of goes on in small hall boxing- its not ideal ,in an ideal world it wouldent have to happen but it does. I remember seeing mickey helliot speaking on bunceys show the other week he said the same thing and im sure Carl Greaves was on ringside last years (who are both part of lifeblood of the sport) saying the same about their guys . I just wish we could all pull together instead of trying to create division and put each other down....

Iagree small hall shows are the life and soul but instead of just pulling a fighter off the show,why not come to an agreement to pay him less and the manager not taking his percentage? surely that's ideal for all concerned

Put it this way if a boxer agrees to a ticket deal of say 100 tickets at £30 that is £1000 for the opponent £1000 for the promotor and £1000 for the ticket seller which all equates to £3000 so happy days
What happens if boxer only sells 50 tickets =£1500 ? Opponent still insists on his £1000 so that leaves £500 between promotor and Boxer so basically if boxer fought for nothing he would still be in debt to the Promotor for £500 so in reality the Boxer should be pleased that he has been pulled off the show Its Harsh I know but that is the reality of a ticket deal The Small hall promotor cannot afford to lose loads of money and in reality if he let the boxer box for nothing he would still be losing money PROMOTING carries real risks of financial disaster

[Duffus91]

I agree small hall shows are the life and soul but instead of just pulling a fighter off the show,why not come to an agreement to pay him less and the manager not taking his percentage? surely that's ideal for all concerned

I can see where Billy's coming from, I really can. The problem for me is ticket-selling is nothing new to boxing. And will continue to be a growing trend especially through the recession where the margins for a show being a profit/loss are tighter than ever. Ticket-selling isn't just something that's big in boxing; DJs, bands & MMA fighters all can be succumbed to this issue.

[Looking On]

If the boxers want to get some work by getting fights and are asked to sell x amount of tickets to be given that chance then whats the problem ?

Why dont you guys agree with that ? ive seen it said pretty often lately on here .

The promoter is the one taking the financial risk and the only person not guranteed to be paid , its only fair he has a way to cover his arse , its either that or there being less shows , less work for boxers and thus the sport being even more marginalised .

It's a promoters job to promote,if a fighter makes it big time that promoter will do very very well out of it.

what would you prefer ?

Less shows for your lads to box on ?

a promoter will promote but he needs a basis to work from , if someone cant sell tickets its a good indication that they dont come across well and will therfor take a lot of work to get across to the public , why would a promoter choose that option if they already have guys who will sell tickets , just means the guys who wont will either be short on fights or will have to take the journeyman route , C'mon billy , youve been around boxing long enough to not need me explaining all this to you , its funny that of all the people i have this very conversation with that its always trainers that seem to have a problem with it , a trainer i work closely with always says the same crap about the cream always rises to the top , but what you gotta remember is most boxers never become the cream , so its almost like expecting only to have the great boxers and the journeyman , having to completely cast off those in between, hardly fair is it , if they cant sell tickets and are too good to be journeymen then they need to do things to get themselves noticed , work in the community with various projects etc , make people care , so that then people want to buy tickets , no matter how much people disagree with it , ticket selling is a part of boxing , and being a good ticket seller can be as important an attribute to have as a good jab .

[spudder56]

If the boxers want to get some work by getting fights and are asked to sell x amount of tickets to be given that chance then whats the problem ?

Why dont you guys agree with that ? ive seen it said pretty often lately on here .

The promoter is the one taking the financial risk and the only person not guranteed to be paid , its only fair he has a way to cover his arse , its either that or there being less shows , less work for boxers and thus the sport being even more marginalised .

It's a promoters job to promote,if a fighter makes it big time that promoter will do very very well out of it.

what would you prefer ?

Less shows for your lads to box on ?

a promoter will promote but he needs a basis to work from , if someone cant sell tickets its a good indication that they dont come across well and will therfor take a lot of work to get across to the public , why would a promoter choose that option if they already have guys who will sell tickets , just means the guys who wont will either be short on fights or will have to take the journeyman route , C'mon billy , youve been around boxing long enough to not need me explaining all this to you , its funny that of all the people i have this very conversation with that its always trainers that seem to have a problem with it , a trainer i work closely with always says the same crap about the cream always rises to the top , but what you gotta remember is most boxers never become the cream , so its almost like expecting only to have the great boxers and the journeyman , having to completely cast off those in between, hardly fair is it , if they cant sell tickets and are too good to be journeymen then they need to do things to get themselves noticed , work in the community with various projects etc , make people care , so that then people want to buy tickets , no matter how much people disagree with it , ticket selling is a part of boxing , and being a good ticket seller can be as important an attribute to have as a good jab .

Too true if you carnt sell tickets you either take the journeyman route or get out of the game

[dalcumly]

Promoting shows

Posters , adverts in local press, local radio stations, emails to local amateur clubs , take the local boxers round the pubs and clubs the previous weekend, get in touch with the sports journalists with the nationals, get an announcement made at the local football team match( Brian Rose fight advertised this way at Blackpool v Palace game). See if local taxi drivers will put a sticker in their cabs ????
GET THE MESSAGE OUT THERE - ADVERTISE OR DIE !!!
The list is almost endless.

I'm on my second boxing book and if you don't tell people its available it'll sit in your garage gathering dust.

[sockie]

billy i have been to some of alex shows where the boxing has been poor, the main one that springs to mind is when your lad edgar made his debut in the gorbals, you slag off everyone you are not associated with and money is your god, if it wasnt for ricky you would have no-one and you should remember that.

i thought scott Edgar with limited experience fought very well against Barry and unlucky not to get a draw against someone much more experienced.
Now take your jealous hole fora shite mate

jealous? i think you want to look in the mirror, your the jealous one, 90% of your input on here is slagging people off who are trying to get their boxers out more, yes i will agree that edgar has limited experience and did well against barry but he has been a lamb to the slaughter since and shouldnt have been near a guy unbeaten in 12 with his limited experience, at least the people you slag off are looking after their charges, unlike your good self.

now you take your mouth for a shite, theres enough coming out of it.

[bluenoseshf]

It always amuses me when this arguement how many people stick up for the promoters.

A promoter should promote the show, the boxer should box the clue is in the name.

How can a boxer be expected to train, promote the show and in most cases work for a living?

A promoter shoulds full time job is to promote the fight, in saying this the fighters should be doing Radio/Newspaper/Tv interviews as much as they can.

It amazes me how little promotion some promoters actually do, as a bare minimum the town/city should be covered in posters.

Another easy way of promotion is surely flyering outside football games and going into all the Amatuer boxing clubs in the area

[billy nelson]

billy i have been to some of alex shows where the boxing has been poor, the main one that springs to mind is when your lad edgar made his debut in the gorbals, you slag off everyone you are not associated with and money is your god, if it wasnt for ricky you would have no-one and you should remember that.

i thought scott Edgar with limited experience fought very well against Barry and unlucky not to get a draw against someone much more experienced.
Now take your jealous hole fora shite mate

jealous? i think you want to look in the mirror, your the jealous one, 90% of your input on here is slagging people off who are trying to get their boxers out more, yes i will agree that edgar has limited experience and did well against barry but he has been a lamb to the slaughter since and shouldnt have been near a guy unbeaten in 12 with his limited experience, at least the people you slag off are looking after their charges, unlike your good self.

now you take your mouth for a shite, theres enough coming out of it.

Maybe you should ask Scott why he took the fight mate, he has a very young family and wanted a fight, he should never have been stopped anyway he only had a nose bleed.
please if your going to make statements have facts or shut the fornicate up.
Im just putting my opinion across on topics if you don't agree so what! Its not slagging people off its giving an opinion, the problem in scotland and Peter Harrison always told me this is, if your good at something there's always people out the wanting to knock you and that's straight from IMO Scotland finest ever coach. Oh wait a minute I'm not allowed to praise someone!
GROW UP MATE

[SMASHING]

Billy whats your oppion on a fights with Jazza Dickens Jon Slowey Khalid Yafai Sean Watson mix at match them i rate them 1 Yafai 2 Dickens 3 Slowey 4 Watson you know these guys better than me

[billy nelson]

Billy whats your oppion on a fights with Jazza Dickens Jon Slowey Khalid Yafai Sean Watson mix at match them i rate them 1 Yafai 2 Dickens 3 Slowey 4 Watson you know these guys better than me

Yafai is a super fly, Jon Slowey a feather, jazz a a SBW and Sean I think FW.
1.Yafai by far the best of the 4 he oozes class
2.Jazza didn't over impress on sat I was there but he looks big for the weight,kid Galahad will win between the two.
3.Jon Slowey talented lad who has still to get his mans strength.
4.Sean was exciting when he turned pro very good puncher,although has weight issues and had injuries.
I don't see any of the 4 lads mentioned fighting each other but I'd rate them same as you.

[bripez]

Put it this way if a boxer agrees to a ticket deal of say 100 tickets at £30 that is £1000 for the opponent £1000 for the promotor and £1000 for the ticket seller which all equates to £3000 so happy days
What happens if boxer only sells 50 tickets =£1500 ? Opponent still insists on his £1000 so that leaves £500 between promotor and Boxer so basically if boxer fought for nothing he would still be in debt to the Promotor for £500 so in reality the Boxer should be pleased that he has been pulled off the show Its Harsh I know but that is the reality of a ticket deal The Small hall promotor cannot afford to lose loads of money and in reality if he let the boxer box for nothing he would still be losing money

PROMOTING carries real risks of financial disaster

The underlined bit is incorrect - you have proved it is incorrect by what you say : if the boxer doesn't sell enough tickets they are removed from the show, where is the financial risk for the promoter ?

For those that say if the boxer can't sell tickets then get out of the game, the same can be said about promoters - if you don't want to take a risk then keep out of "promoting".

[SMASHING]

Billy whats your oppion on a fights with Jazza Dickens Jon Slowey Khalid Yafai Sean Watson mix at match them i rate them 1 Yafai 2 Dickens 3 Slowey 4 Watson you know these guys better than me

Yafai is a super fly, Jon Slowey a feather, jazz a a SBW and Sean I think FW.
1.Yafai by far the best of the 4 he oozes class
2.Jazza didn't over impress on sat I was there but he looks big for the weight,kid Galahad will win between the two.
3.Jon Slowey talented lad who has still to get his mans strength.
4.Sean was exciting when he turned pro very good puncher,although has weight issues and had injuries.
I don't see any of the 4 lads mentioned fighting each other but I'd rate them same as you.

cheers billy

[sockie]

no goin to get intae a slanging match but you seem to have missed my point billy, you said alex shows were a better class of boxing, all i stated was ive been to poor shows that alex has ran as well, swings and roundabouts as far as shows run by different promoters go. I will say it is very apparent that anything paul graham or tommy gilmour do, you seem to have adverse opinions on them so you obviously have a problem with them so you are the one that needs to grow up and let them get on with what they do without being opinionated, after all it is those silly opinions that got you into hot water with big alex not too long ago

[jonp]

Put it this way if a boxer agrees to a ticket deal of say 100 tickets at £30 that is £1000 for the opponent £1000 for the promotor and £1000 for the ticket seller which all equates to £3000 so happy days
What happens if boxer only sells 50 tickets =£1500 ? Opponent still insists on his £1000 so that leaves £500 between promotor and Boxer so basically if boxer fought for nothing he would still be in debt to the Promotor for £500 so in reality the Boxer should be pleased that he has been pulled off the show Its Harsh I know but that is the reality of a ticket deal The Small hall promotor cannot afford to lose loads of money and in reality if he let the boxer box for nothing he would still be losing money

PROMOTING carries real risks of financial disaster

The underlined bit is incorrect - you have proved it is incorrect by what you say : if the boxer doesn't sell enough tickets they are removed from the show, where is the financial risk for the promoter ?

For those that say if the boxer can't sell tickets then get out of the game, the same can be said about promoters - if you don't want to take a risk then keep out of "promoting".

Show still costs a fair bit before a single boxers wage is paid so there is that risk for the promoter.

[spudder56]

Jon is correct Promotor is always at risk coz of fixed costs i.e venue ring security officials board tax etc etc

[billy nelson]

no goin to get intae a slanging match but you seem to have missed my point billy, you said alex shows were a better class of boxing, all i stated was ive been to poor shows that alex has ran as well, swings and roundabouts as far as shows run by different promoters go. I will say it is very apparent that anything paul graham or tommy gilmour do, you seem to have adverse opinions on them so you obviously have a problem with them so you are the one that needs to grow up and let them get on with what they do without being opinionated, after all it is those silly opinions that got you into hot water with big alex not too long ago

What opinions was that? Sometimes Alex's opinions and mine will differ thats just life nobody got into any hot water!
Alex trusts me 100% never interfers and i get on with training his fighters,organising all the sparring ect and that clearly works for both of us.
Tommy Gilmour doesnt like me thats very simple, in fairnest to Paul he's trying his best with limited resourses fair play to him, his show in cleland has 3 good fighters so far on it, i just feel a wee miners club with a pie and peas feels like your going to an amatuer show.

[sockie]

your opinions on ricky burns, did alex no publicly say in the paper that you should keep your mouth shut regarding ricky and just get on with the training and that ricky would have won a world title regardless of who was training him?

regarding graham's show, he is still getting his fighters work, is that no the main thing, like you said previously about the laddie edgar, some of these boys have mouths to feed and bills to pay! so it doesn't matter to them if the show is in a phone box so long as they get a wage at the end of the day. ah can remember alex running a show in a chinese restaraunt some time back with a buffet and if my memory serves me right did Ricky no box on that?

ma point is these boys have to start somewhere (boxers and promoters) and small hall shows keep the sport alive, sure they all dream of being on the big shows but it simply canny be done all the time.

going off track a bit here but ah would just like to point one other thing out, you stated on a previous post that kris hughes went from being a contender with a winning record to being an opponent, maybe kris wants it that way, as like big edgar, he has a family to feed. dont know your thoughts on that but from what ah hear the laddie is not working at the moment and taking fights is a wee form of income for him!!!

ah believe you are a good trainer but sometimes your mouth and your opinions let you down billy, ah know you got some good write ups in the boxing papers but dont let that go to your head.

[billy nelson]

your opinions on ricky burns, did alex no publicly say in the paper that you should keep your mouth shut regarding ricky and just get on with the training and that ricky would have won a world title regardless of who was training him?

regarding graham's show, he is still getting his fighters work, is that no the main thing, like you said previously about the laddie edgar, some of these boys have mouths to feed and bills to pay! so it doesn't matter to them if the show is in a phone box so long as they get a wage at the end of the day. ah can remember alex running a show in a chinese restaraunt some time back with a buffet and if my memory serves me right did Ricky no box on that?

ma point is these boys have to start somewhere (boxers and promoters) and small hall shows keep the sport alive, sure they all dream of being on the big shows but it simply canny be done all the time.

going off track a bit here but ah would just like to point one other thing out, you stated on a previous post that kris hughes went from being a contender with a winning record to being an opponent, maybe kris wants it that way, as like big edgar, he has a family to feed. dont know your thoughts on that but from what ah hear the laddie is not working at the moment and taking fights is a wee form of income for him!!!

ah believe you are a good trainer but sometimes your mouth and your opinions let you down billy, ah know you got some good write ups in the boxing papers but dont let that go to your head.

[billy nelson]

your opinions on ricky burns, did alex no publicly say in the paper that you should keep your mouth shut regarding ricky and just get on with the training and that ricky would have won a world title regardless of who was training him?

regarding graham's show, he is still getting his fighters work, is that no the main thing, like you said previously about the laddie edgar, some of these boys have mouths to feed and bills to pay! so it doesn't matter to them if the show is in a phone box so long as they get a wage at the end of the day. ah can remember alex running a show in a chinese restaraunt some time back with a buffet and if my memory serves me right did Ricky no box on that?

ma point is these boys have to start somewhere (boxers and promoters) and small hall shows keep the sport alive, sure they all dream of being on the big shows but it simply canny be done all the time.

going off track a bit here but ah would just like to point one other thing out, you stated on a previous post that kris hughes went from being a contender with a winning record to being an opponent, maybe kris wants it that way, as like big edgar, he has a family to feed. dont know your thoughts on that but from what ah hear the laddie is not working at the moment and taking fights is a wee form of income for him!!!

ah believe you are a good trainer but sometimes your mouth and your opinions let you down billy, ah know you got some good write ups in the boxing papers but dont let that go to your head.

I understand many of your points mate, yes these lads need on local shows and kept as busy as they can.
with regards to training Ricky and how he's trained , nobody is in any position to comment, after all he's won 20 out of 20 and won 4 titles in the process, now that's not down to luck sockie, with regards to the comment anyone would look good in Ricky's corner Alex and I had a chuckle about that, most importantly Ricky trusts my judgement and decision making and why wouldn't he.
I don't agree with you about Kris i just think he's been badly matched and he's not developed the way he was when in my gym,it was an undefeated record and improving record he had in my gym, if he's decided to fight whoever I'm saddened by that coz I think he was a good fighter in the making.
I respect that you think my opinions let me down but I cant be far wrong with my judgement calls with what I've archived and were not finished yet beleive me.
Finally if my name was never written in a paper or mag or forum again I wouldn't give a shit, I'm lucky I love what I'm doing (except the politics of the sport), I don't consider myself lucky because I work hard at what I do so if success comes along then that tells you I'm doing my job correctly.

[SMASHING]

Billy you've done a few shows will you do it again or is it just a sore nut :( i know you must give Ricky all your time in camp and still look after the others you have

[billy nelson]

Billy you've done a few shows will you do it again or is it just a sore nut :( i know you must give Ricky all your time in camp and still look after the others you have

no I'm just sticking to the coaching.

[sockie]

fair play billy, see you can come across as a decent guy when you try so you maybe need to have a wee think about how things might come across regarding others before writing comments on what shows are being held where, remember, as you will know, it is a rule that no booze can be served at a show UNLESS food is being served and with a club like cleland that wouldny be possible without some kind a grub on offer, the cheaper the better imo, bit a grub, few jars an a wee nights entertainment, ah've been to some am shows where its £20 a pop in these clubs with no grub (an mostly weans boxing), so what mr grahams doin seems logical to me, keeps his costs down, fills the place, makes a wee turn (as naebody works for nothin) and gets his boxers a wedge.

as for kris, it might be sad but its his choice at the end of the day (for what its worth ah agree with ye there, shame on me eh ), ah don't think it's down to bad management, as like you said about big edgar, if a boxer wants work, win or lose the manager has an obligation to find him work so long as he isny threw in to get a beating as the manager also has a duty of care.