Mythical Lightweight Tourney

[theone]

Roberto was a master defensive fighter and i don't think he got hit any more than Whitaker did

Duran had a very good, and subtle defensive skills. He was nowhere near the defensive master Whitaker was.

.Offensively he was far superior to Pernell

Whitaker was technically much more sound than Duran. His right jab coming from the southpaw stance would have kept Duran off balance. His movement and excellent body punching would have frustrated Duran.

Whitaker was nothing but defence.

Come on now. If this was true he would not have accomplished half of what he did.

Duran beat the better competition as well.Whitaker's best being the blown up Nelson, who never won a meaningful fight at lightweight and an ancient Jose Luis Ramirez

Overall body of work at lightweight i disagree. Also, Ramirez was far from ancient at the time he fought Whitaker. He was on an immpresive winning streak including victories against Terrence ali and Boza Edwards. Dejesus was not a great fighter. He was a very good fighter who had the style to give Duran fits. Buchanan was fouled out of his title blantantly. Throughout the entire fight Duran used not only his fist, but his head, elbows and even his knees. The ref did a horrible job in that fight, and it was still close until the final brutal low blow. Nobody gives a shit how he one because Duran probably would have won anyway and he was a much more colorful fighter.

[theone]

I know it wasn't at lightweight but Whittaker should have got the decision against Chavez.

You know what Ezzard, so did I right after the fight. but i was shocked to see after i totalled up my score that I had it a draw. I couldnt believe it! I guess from my perpective, the two won the same number of rounds but Whitakers won his rounds alot more impressively. Although not enough to make any of them a 10-8 round.

[wlvrne]

I'm not saying Mosley is the best Lt wt EVER. I'm saying I think he had the style to outbox and beat Duran. I don't see Shane whiffing punches trying for Duran's head as a lot of his opponents did.
I see Shane countering Duran as Duran come to him. And Shane's smarter than to stand there and go toe-to-toe with him. And I think some here are caught up in the legendary mysitique.
Every fighter can be beaten. One just needs to find the fighter with the style to do so. I think Shane has that style to beat the great Duran.

[Sherlock]

Over Duran, Benny Leonard, Gans, and Ike Williams????????

Why so many question marks? Is it so unreasonable to believe Whitaker could be better than any of them? Why? Leonard and Gans fought much too long ago to know how well they would do against someone like Whitaker, Duran or Mosely for that matter. Gans would have probably beaten rather decisively by the three modern fighters I mentioned. His style looked just too primative to handle them.
Leonard looks more like a modern fighter, but still hard to judge him. I have seen many Ike Williams fights on tape and his style looks taylor made for Whitaker. His reign was too short and not as impressive as the others.

Modern does mean better. The best will always rise to the top, no matter what era you place them.

And I think Pernell is a great fighter and a first ballot hall of famer, but I've seen nothing that merits him as the best ever at lightweight, and nor was he a legend in our midst. He was a great fighter, but pales in comparison to Williams, Gans, Duran, and Leonard. And Leonard was probably better defensively than Whitaker. And Williams 4 year reign, with 41 fights with only 7 losses against the best of that era with victories over Bob Montgomery, Beau Jack, Kid Gavilan, and Enrique Bolanos is not impressive? Beating Freddie Pendleton, Greg Haugen, Jorge Paez, and Roger Mayweather is more so?

[theone]

Modern does mean better.

I know you meant doesnt mean better. Not always, I agree. But with a fistic dinosaur like Joe Gans it certainly does. If he fought today in the same style he would be laughed out the ring.

And I think Pernell is a great fighter and a first ballot hall of famer, but I've seen nothing that merits him as the best ever at lightweight, and nor was he a legend in our midst

Then you my friend have not been watching very closely.

And Williams 4 year reign, with 41 fights with only 7 losses against the best of that era with victories over Bob Montgomery, Beau Jack, Kid Gavilan, and Enrique Bolanos is not impressive?

Please. By 1947 Montgomery was done. he lost his last six fights after that. Kid Gavilan avenged the lost with two wins of his own. Enrique Bolanos? You're kidding right? There was absolutely nothing special about him. Haugen's career was alot more impressive. Most of those 41 fights were not a lightweight and three of those losses were to George Costner, Charley Salas and Joe Miceli. Not exactley a fistic murders row here. he was also knockout by one fo the most inconsistant champions in history, Jimmy Carter.

[Sherlock]

I know you meant doesnt mean better. Not always, I agree. But with a fistic dinosaur like Joe Gans it certainly does. If he fought today in the same style he would be laughed out the ring.

And put Whitaker in that era when there were no scheduled rounds in a lot of bouts and you had to score a knockout to win. Tell me how many bouts Whitaker have won in that era.

[theone]

And put Whitaker in that era when there were no scheduled rounds in a lot of bouts and you had to score a knockout to win. Tell me how many bouts Whitaker have won in that era.

Your probably right about this Sherlock. It was more like street fighting back then and Gans was a powerful little guy. But it may also have been easier for Whitaker to score knockouts against fighters who were alot easier to hit. Who knows?

[dalek]

i like pernell and over 12 or 15 rounds he has a chance with any lightweight(i have him at 5)however its fair to say he wouldn't be able to beat gans over a 45 round fight etc.whittakers style is all wrong to win in that era.

[damien590]

I'm not saying Mosley is the best Lt wt EVER. I'm saying I think he had the style to outbox and beat Duran. I don't see Shane whiffing punches trying for Duran's head as a lot of his opponents did.
I see Shane countering Duran as Duran come to him. And Shane's smarter than to stand there and go toe-to-toe with him. And I think some here are caught up in the legendary mysitique.
Every fighter can be beaten. One just needs to find the fighter with the style to do so. I think Shane has that style to beat the great Duran.

Thanks man. That's the point I've been trying to make. Mosely at 135lbs
fought with pinpoint accuracy & wasted no punches. He would've out-boxed
Duran & hurt him a few times with those kidney shots & might even stop
him. He's not passive like sweet pea & if he has you hurt he'll try & finish.

Everybody is caught up in the legendary thing. They have to keep in
that was a different era. Throw Shane in that era (at 135lbs) & he
would've held his own because they would've pushed him & made him
fight to the best of his ability.


Someone said that Duran would ko Floyd. Get the fornicate outta here! It
would be very similar to Floyd vs. Castillo I with Duran getting the
close decision. Nobody in history blows through Floyd.

Duran ko's Floyd. Don't make me laugh.

[BoxBuzz]

Damien I sort of agree with your analysis however I'ts not a laughable outcome. Hands of Stone at lightweight could have caused even the unimaginable. Totaly depending on luck, Floyd's focus and the degree of intensity that Duran showed on that particular day. I don't see Floyd stopping Duran or even winning a decision.

[damien590]

Damien I sort of agree with your analysis however I'ts not a laughable outcome. Hands of Stone at lightweight could have caused even the unimaginable. Totaly depending on luck, Floyd's focus and the degree of intensity that Duran showed on that particular day. I don't see Floyd stopping Duran or even winning a decision.

I say that because Floyd is a proven warrior & battle tested. He's beaten
BOTH Castillo & Corrales. Those guys are killers in their own rights &
Floyd conquered both of them.

I'm sorry. Duran ain't knocking out Floyd at 135lbs because of Floyd's
speed & footwork. NOW Duran might outwork Floyd in a sense of the
compubox numbers, but to knock him out. Nahhhhhh I don't see it.
Just when Duran tries to tee off on Floyd...that flurry would be over
because Floyd would be on the other side of the ring by then. lol!

Floyd just ain't gonna let someone tee off on him.