(OT) The death of Maggie poll

[Lenny]

I do not mean this to be detrimental but Yorkshire folk have an extremely distorted, inflated view of themselves

By heck lad, made tut quick amend

[forcefraser]

I thought Maggia was a class act. She put the shits up most people. Coming from a mining town i should have despised her, but ah didnae.

[chad]

You need to spend less time worrying about how the site is run or how promptly news stories are added to the site.

Why? You might not agree or enjoy my point of view but that doesn't give you the right to tell me what to do, or how much time I should spend doing it.

The parallel you draw is both ludicrous and distasteful.

More or less ludicrous and distasteful than you asking me if allegedly will be televising the funeral of Margaret Thatcher?

[Parson Cross]

Lets put it into a boxing perspective.
Politicians are like Promotors. The truth is they all piss in the same pot.
I'm not remotely interested in Maggie's passing.
However, under the 30 year rule it has been revealed that the Conservative government of the time headed by Maggie were on the verge of signing the Falklands over to the Argies 6 months before the conflct and it was simply the Argies impatience that caused the war.
How two faced is that ?
I prefer not to recollect my time around the miners strike era. Saw too much in my early twenties.
Can't believe that it was necessary for me to do voluntary work in a soup kitchen at the time.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

I'd like to see these many reports. If they were profitable, why did they rely so heavily on state support to stay afloat?

Because they were nationalised, lots of industry was nationalised such as the railways. They were profitable but if you wanted to import coal from Colombia where kids were being paid 15 pence an hour to mine it then it would have been unprofitable but then there is a question of ethics and morals. I would have thought most decent people would be against child labour and exploitation. Obviously not.

Most of our industrial cities started out extremely small and grew up quickly because of the growth of industry, but there are plenty of decent-sized towns here that the Industrial Revolution didn't dominate (for example, Norwich and York) and as such have remained in decent prospects despite their own industries dwindling. Leeds is a good example of an industrial town that has managed to reinvent itself since deindustrialisation rather than dying on its arse as soon the industry disappeared. In any case, you could say the same in terms of spectacular population growth and dependence on industry for the majority of industrial cities worldwide - the fact that the Industrial Revolution happened here first doesn't make our circumstances unique.

Nonsense, not true at all, there aren't that many towns and cities worldwide that were built and grew round industry, a good example of such a town is Sasolburg in South Africa - or Johnannesburg even - but Sasolburg was built especially for the steel works that was situated around there and came the growth of population. Happened in very few places

The phenomena of 'company towns' has also happened all over the US (mostly in the 'rust belt'), and this is affecting the north of Japan as their heavy industries start to lose their mass employment of the last few decades. Anywhere that you have a dominant employer that pulls out of a relatively small community, the same situation occurs - this is not something that is unique to the UK.

It isn't unique to the UK but it happened in very few places, yes, parts of the US midwest and North East, The Soviet Union, The Ruhr in Germany and a few other places.

As for Chinese cities that are growing massively because of an influx of workers to fill these new industries there - how do we know what they'd do if the industries disappeared tomorrow? They've yet to deindustrialise. The idea that if all of their major factories pulled out they'd all just go back to tilling the rice paddies in their millions seems pretty unrealistic to me.

Complete nonsense, the Chinese government specifically built factories in designated areas of high population density so people didn't have to migrate to these cities, a good documentary to watch about this is 'Brits in China' which explains this in more detail. There is domestic migration to the big cities but their numbers are not counted as the 'Hukou' system is still in place in China and moving out of the area of your Hukou to live in somewhere like Beijing is still illegal (if tolerated). Most people have jobs in their local area that was brought to them by the government. In the UK - it was the other way round.

It's a more sustainable plan than losing hundreds of millions pounds a year to prop up an industry that would not reform. It's a considerably less sustainable plan than trying to reform the industry without the aid of jackbooted policemen. I would argue that a country with a less inset culture of naked self-interest would have reached a more sensible compromise and closed the pits far less abruptly, perhaps even have made them profitable without the loss of tens of thousands of jobs (see, for example, how the Germans went from regularly having 9-10% unemployment through the 90s and early 2000s to their current massive exporter status; their unions agreed to wage freezes for the best part of a decade, something I cannot imagine Scargill's contemporaries ever agreeing to).
But that's what a rabid class war will do for the idea of co-operation.

As for us 'making nothing'; we still export half a trillion dollars worth of goods a year. Manufacturing still makes up a good 17% of GDP (more than, say, France, which subsidises a great deal of their industry). We're not finished yet on that front, not by a long shot. If we had continued to run industry the way we did in the 1970s, there really would be nothing left by now.

None of that is true.

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicat ... D/rankings

But we are doing better than the Mexicans so that's allright.

78% of our GDP comes from the service industry.

Three cheers for Maggie!

[Parson Cross]

Tell you why its two faced DD.
Did the government ever say they were going to hand it over at the time ?
Did they not make political mileage out of portraying an image of being the all conquering heroes stating that we would never give them up ? If memory serves me right Maggie was way behind in the polls until the conflict.

[n1ebf]

Lets put it into a boxing perspective.
Politicians are like Promotors. The truth is they all piss in the same pot.
I'm not remotely interested in Maggie's passing.
However, under the 30 year rule it has been revealed that the Conservative government of the time headed by Maggie were on the verge of signing the Falklands over to the Argies 6 months before the conflct and it was simply the Argies impatience that caused the war.
How two faced is that ?
I prefer not to recollect my time around the miners strike era. Saw too much in my early twenties.
Can't believe that it was necessary for me to do voluntary work in a soup kitchen at the time.

why would you send ships 8000 miles to fight for something that was getting given away, that doesn't make sense.
Or maybe a better question would be, why did they invade it if they were getting it anyway? I bet they weren't on the verge of getting it or they wouldn't have fcked about.

[zero]

How the eff can you be happy that someone has died?

She wasn't a dictator or a murderer she was a Prime Minister and a bloody good one at that.

More commuinities and people have been fucked by labour and the mess is still ongoing.

Show some respect and remove such a vile poll.

She wasn't a murderer? Interesting perspective.

He is needing to take his head out of his arse before he speaks.

[Parson Cross]

Well the truth is the truth mate.
Under the 30 year rule the papers have to be made public and that's the content.

[Parson Cross]

Read the papers.
Official documents under the 30 year rule cannot lie.

[macaca]

Well the truth is the truth mate.
Under the 30 year rule the papers have to be made public and that's the content.

I don't doubt that there had been talks. I also believe that if Argentina hadn't invaded the islands they would be called Las Malvinas now, and will be eventually anyway.

They are called Las Malvinas on every map in school here, they are also on coins and bank notes, dedicated signs are errect and the capital is Puerto Argentino, South Georgia and Sandwich Islands too are shown to be Argentinian. The slice of the South Pole claimed is therefore almost doubled, (oil/minerals). The Falklands will not be speaking Spanish until my grand kids are in coffins, fact. If Argentina wasn't too big as to invade and conquer, any bordering country could have taken it since 1982 and probably for the next 50 years due to the state the country is in.

[Mimmy]

Just been listening to David Hopper, Durham Miners Association on the news. They are going to celebrate the death of Maggie as back years ago they made a pact with their members to do this when she dies. Not one complaint so far. They cannot wait for the party to begin next week some time.

[palooka]

A lad was saying earlier, that he pulled into the garage part of his local Tesco this afternoon and the cashier girl said "That Maggie Thatcher has died today, don't know what all the fuss is about"

He said "Where this giant Tesco used to be, was a coal pit where my dad, my uncle and my grandad all worked. They earned wages to put food on the table, to pay their way in life, to take their kids on holiday and put presents under the xmas tree. And despite there being over 30 years left of coal to mine, she shut the place down. And subsequently, they all sold their cars, start catching buses. The holidays to the seaside stopped for years and his grandad never worked the last 6 years of his working life because he could find no other job. And that as a whole family, they lost about 14 years wages between, from a profitable pit."

- And that's the attitude of all the younger people today at this news - they don't get it. They think this mess has always been here. Well just imagine if every village (let alone every city) had a business that paid well and screaming for more people to come and work for them. A car park full of new cars, paid for with good wages that went straight back into their local community.

Then shut them down, make proud men skint, to give them dole money and take their livelihoods all away. Now they're kids and their grandkids, all litter these areas and have nothing in life except the benefit system. A legacy of poverty and Jeremy Kyle on television.

While the capital sees these bastards get richer and richer, with bonuses bigger than the wages of an entire annual shopping centre of staff.

Once upon a time, these villages and little towns all worked, all earned money in our industries and have self respect.

Probably before you were born.

well said.

In areas without a decent economy/jobs then people will be drawn toward the underground economies to prosper; - the devil dances in an empty pocket.

[lillywhite14]

Yorkshire folk have principles? Different to southerners!? What a load of old shit.

I'm a working class oik from the south. I'm no different to your working class monkeys up north. Apart from being a little less dramatic it seems and a different accent.

[Mimmy]

Our family had to move from our pit town I was 13 at the time. Just finding my baring's as a teenager. Then boom Moved to a north east seaside town. Was that a good move from Donny to the east coast? possibly yes but leaving all my friends behind and moving to a place where it was difficult to make friends and adapt to their ways of life. I didn't want to move but had no choice, lots of families had to they also never had a choice. Ripped a community to bits.

[Mimmy]

Yorkshire folk have principles? Different to southerners!? What a load of old poo.

I'm a working class oik from the south. I'm no different to your working class monkeys up north. Apart from being a little less dramatic it seems and a different accent.

I rest my case!

[lillywhite14]

Working class is working class, be you Northern, Southern, Welsh or from the Midlands.

Ain't never been no 'Kent Ripper' either from what I'm aware of. You can keep them principles

[palooka]

Working class is working class, be you Northern, Southern, Welsh or from the Midlands.

Ain't never been no 'Kent Ripper' either from what I'm aware of. You can keep them principles

That fornicator in Norwich was on a roll though wasn't he?

[Parson Cross]

Kent - home of Danny Dyer and Kelly Brooke ....
Principals eh !

[dookus]

None of that is true.

http://www.indexmundi.com/facts/indicat ... D/rankings

But we are doing better than the Mexicans so that's allright.

78% of our GDP comes from the service industry.

Three cheers for Maggie!

We export half a trillion dollars worth of stuff, as I said. We manufacture $230bn worth of that (so, about half). You said we make nothing, and yet we're still in the top 10 globally.

My figure was out of date for manufacturing - it is only around a 10th of our GDP. But the idea that we no longer make anything is massively inaccurate - the difference from before is that it employs far fewer people to make a similar amount of stuff.

Seeing as UK production actually peaked around 2001 (a very useful graph on this - http://tutor2u.net/economics/content/es ... _in_uk.htm), and was far higher in 1990 than it was when Thatcher came to power, the idea that our manufacturing base disappearing is a sole result of her policies is somewhat at odds with the facts.

Labour had 13 years in power to consolidate the huge gains in productivity that were made over the 80s...and managed to piss it all away by both failing to encourage people into educational paths that would have sustained manufacturing (engineering etc) and by allowing the pound to appreciate massively against other major currencies during the credit boom of the early-to-mid 00s.

[Hagler2002]

In other news Fred Talbot the weatherman from ITV's This Morning is the latest celebrity accused of rampant noncery..

[Mimmy]

In other news Fred Talbot the weatherman from ITV's This Morning is the latest celebrity accused of rampant noncery..

All this came with the fall of Sir jimmy Saville. Makes you wonder who will be next. I touched a few lasses up in the 80's but I aint famous.

[TJ77]

Don't turn this into a north south divide argument too say that Yorkshire folk have principles and southerners don't is moronic. I have spent half my life up north and half down south I work allover Britain people are people trust me. Most have a moral code but you get scabs everywhere in all walks of life . Up until the late 60's you could leave your door open anywhere.
I know Maggie was a pudendum with an agenda you don't have to have been a Yorkshire miner to have suffered under Thatcher .We are all still feeling the effects now.[/quote]

Up until the late 60s people had a lot more respect, greater personal values and fear of authorities and punishments .... now ......... well

There is a 100% legit case to talk about a North South divide since it is completely relevant to this thread on many levels[/quote
Moron

[TJ77]

Kent - home of Danny Dyer and Kelly Brooke ....
Principals eh !

Parson behave ..Im not getting into it we all know Dennis Thatchers wifes was a whore.

[Hagler2002]

These dickheads planning on throwing street parties the day of funeral are taking things a bit too far.