(OT) The death of Maggie poll

[Mimmy]

^^^^^^^^^^

I guess thats true as how many men now are applying for trade jobs such as mine building? As you say the knowledge will be lost after a 30 year dorment period

[liamlion]

I haven't been out celebrating her death, not because I have a single drop of fondness, respect or good will for her, rather that the damage she and the cohort of cronies in her Government and private industry did has already been done and the effects are entrenched throughout my country and the rest of the UK. I've no issue with anyone celebrating her death, if the media and general political spectrum can trumpet her passing with the fervour many of them are embarking upon then it's just as palatable in my eyes for those who find her passing a reason to rejoice to take to the streets and do so.

The idea that Thatcher as an individual is solely responsible for all of what happened to my country under her tenure is wrong - those in her Government, those she made wealthy, those who voted for her, those whose vested self interests she protected are accountable as well - but she was the figurehead of the changes that were forced through in the 1980's, changes which I believe still take a heavy toll many men women and children today.

The area in Edinburgh where I work today is synonymous with much of what she and others of her ilk caused. Generations of the long term unemployed live in what little council housing remains, much of it barely fit for human existence. Much of it has been knocked down, replaced by a college and hospital built under Private Finance Initiative schemes which levy a heavy cost on the public purse in the form of expensive, fixed rates which return a healthy profit to their private consortiums. What affordable housing is now built is done so under intense pressure, and is done so to the bare minimum, in the least desirable areas. The cost of housing in the city is such that young, working class families are forced to move tens of miles from their families and local communities out to the outskirts, and then take on the financial load of car ownership due to the poor quality of our public transport network. Those who are left behind are left with little. No local community. High crime. Jobs in business parks miles away. In these circumstances drug and alcohol abuse is high, violence and crime common - there is little sense of community.

She stood by as the coal, ship and metal industries in my country were torn apart. Communities suffered the cost. She stood by while a Poll tax was levied with the idea that we all pay the same amounts - peanuts to the city slicker she was helping to make rich, unaffordable fortunes to the manual labourers she had cast aside. The old rates up here were unpopular but the result of the change was that this countries people were treated like lab rats as a testing subject for the rest of the UK.

For me what is there to celebrate? That at 31 I'd be viewed as crazy to seek council housing when what is left of it has been left to rot? That families and communities around me are still suffering from the industries she tore apart? That what is left of the Labour party is a shadow of what it once was, paying lip service to the working class whilst constantly seeking ways to curry favour with middle England (where-ever the hell that is)? I'm glad she is dead but it's about 40 years too late to celebrate it.

too true. and what adds insult to injury is that while the thatcher foundation has multi millions to promote the old kunt and her poisonous ideology, we , the cash strapped genuine tax payer, are paying 10 million to send her off with a glorious funeral.

Great point. This country is obsessed with elitist bullsh1t. When will the mass public ever wake up to it??

[Mimmy]

BBC Radio 1 are in a quandary to whether play the top selling song this week. Ding Dong The Wicked Witch is the best selling song this week and will be number 1 on Sunday

[Chambers2]

BBC Radio 1 are in a quandary to whether play the top selling song this week. Ding Dong The Wicked Witch is the best selling song this week and will be number 1 on Sunday

She forced the BBC into showing what she wanted during the miners strike, lets see if she can still do it from the grave.

Is it undemocratic if they don't??

[macaca]

[/quote]
It depends how the pit was decommissioned.

Some of the shafts were literally filled with 900m3 of concrete and the adits and drivages sealed off. Some had the winding tower and all the gear dismantled. Some had the driftages stowed.

Some were left as-is and even had care and maintenance undertaken for years (but I think all that has stopped now) - This was the case with Selby.

The thing with a lot of pits is that there were lots of shafts sunk but they're all interconnected underground, that's often why pit villages were in close proximity, they were often working seams or drifts very close to others being worked by another pit. You could often walk between some pits.

Maltby & Selby still have tonnes of coal, the problem is that you would either need to re-sink the shafts or sink new ones and then you have the issue of water (no surprise really, it's a km underground) and lack of work/pumping/maintenance done since it was shut.

Harworth was kept open by RJ Budge (private contractor) after the rest were shut as were two in the Midlands, can't remember where off the top of my head, but these were shut a few years ago - These would be easier to re-open but a. it's a massive undertaking b. there are associated localised issues with each, hence their closure c. why would you do it?

I worked at Maltby when we were either sinking or deepening No 3 shaft.

Of course the other issues you have are that you have a huge amount of lost knowledge/experience associated with it. Ok so a lot of them went sideways into civils and some even went abroad and worked on shafts and mines there but from experience, most of them are at or over retirement age now - I'm talking about your real technical guys, not the guys at the coal face, so to speak.[/quote]

Lets face it, there is still enough coal, north sea gas will run out in 30 years, we are hoping that fully sustainable eco friendly cost effective energy will be developed in the coming decade ...... but if we need to go to the mines, we can but unfortunately then the world will tell us it is too polluting and have coal burning banned.......... UK coal is like an energy piggy bank but maybe we should be totally tapping it now before it is too late ........ a bit like Lady Di in 1990

[J]

there's enough oil reserves to last our liftetime.
its just how deep you are prepared to dig for them.

Lets face it when we were at school the oil reserves were going to run out by 2000...and yet here we are more oil dependent than ever.

What you may see over the coming years is a shift to more gas as there is more of it and it has only 33% of most oil's carbon waste .

Over the past ten years we have found more oil than we have used.

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=world+ ... ,s:0,i:112


the you have new mnethods susch as shale fracking to to be further perfected.
if that happens expect Canada to become a major player.

yes i work in the oil industry before you ask.

[misterpunch]

its definitely "raise a glass to the old witches final demise and get your dancing shoes on" time - she fecked the unions, she fecked the arts. remember the irish being banned and voice overs being used on TV news? she sank the belgrano which was making its way out of the area. she fecked our mining industry. she wanted the ANC to be wiped out of south africa. she presided over the greatest hike in unemployment since the twenties. she engendered such anti-social attitudes that we are still seeing the results of tons of them today - pitting black against white, the haves against the have nots, the strong against the weak. of course its dancing time.

i'm sickened by the BBC's coverage which is siding quite strongly with the tory pro thatcher faction. showing her "soft" side. really!!

she was on a mission. her own personal crusade. she didnt care how many got stuffed along that road

[observer1]

- she fecked the unions, she fecked the arts. remember the irish being banned and voice overs being used on TV news? she sank the belgrano which was making its way out of the area. she fecked our mining industry. she wanted the ANC to be wiped out of south africa. she presided over the greatest hike in unemployment since the twenties. she engendered such anti-social attitudes that we are still seeing the results of tons of them today - pitting black against white, the haves against the have nots, the strong against the weak. of course its dancing time.

i'm sickened by the BBC's coverage which is siding quite strongly with the tory pro thatcher faction. showing her "soft" side. really!!

she was on a mission. her own personal crusade. she didnt care how many got stuffed along that road

I think it's daft "celebrating" her death. Most are probably oblivious to what Thatcher even did and are just looking to cause trouble ala EDL style.

But let's get one thing straight, Thatcher did a ton of more harm than good. THAT is what should be covered.

[Horse]

she sank the belgrano which was making its way out of the area.

If Argentina didn't want their ships sunk then they shouldn't have invaded the Falklands.

[semtexreilly]

rot in hell maggie,and remember the 10

[Callowland]

"I think it's daft "celebrating" her death. Most are probably oblivious to what Thatcher even did and are just looking to cause trouble ala EDL"

I think objecting to the Islamic transformation of the UK where Shariah Law will replace English Law is more than the EDL causing trouble.

Through exponential immigration and birth rates that is going to happen.

At least Thatcher objected to that, and this furore about the pits and loss of manufacturing jobs will be a dim and distant memory when Islamic Scholars change the history books.

Check the demographic statistics and the growth in Shariah Courts, then tell me I am 'Islamaphobic'.

[liamlion]

she sank the belgrano which was making its way out of the area.

If Argentina didn't want their ships sunk then they shouldn't have invaded the Falklands.

What a very reasonable and intelligent response. Congratulations, your parents must be very proud...

[Horse]

What a very reasonable and intelligent response. Congratulations, your parents must be very proud...

You think sinking an enemy ship during a war is bad?

[liamlion]

What a very reasonable and intelligent response. Congratulations, your parents must be very proud...

You think sinking an enemy ship during a war is bad?

I think war is bad.

Furthermore, I think starting a war and killing other human beings (regardless of nationality) over a small piece of land thousands of miles from home in order to keep international face is frankly moronic.

And for someone to then try and defend the bombing of a ship that is heading away from confrontation,
is ridiculous beyond comprehension.

Take your Union Jack hat off and look at it objectively.

[el_grande_mauro_mina]

What a very reasonable and intelligent response. Congratulations, your parents must be very proud...

You think sinking an enemy ship during a war is bad?

I think war is bad.

Furthermore, I think starting a war and killing other human beings (regardless of nationality) over a small piece of land thousands of miles from home in order to keep international face is frankly moronic.

And for someone to then try and defend the bombing of a ship that is heading away from confrontation,
is ridiculous beyond comprehension.

Take your Union Jack hat off and look at it objectively.

I am no fan of Thatcher and I am certainly no fan of British rule in the Falklands BUT I don't see
what else Thatcher could have done over the Falklands, there is no way they should let some tin
pot, fascistic, military dictatorship invade the islands. These people threw civillians out of aeroplanes - the Falklands was one of the few things she was justified in doing to be honest. I don't like saying it but it is true. To leave the population at the hands of an evil pudendum like Galtieri and that military regime would have been wrong.

[Horse]

I think war is bad.

Furthermore, I think starting a war and killing other human beings (regardless of nationality) over a small piece of land thousands of miles from home in order to keep international face is frankly moronic.

Argentina started the war. They invaded the Falklands.

And for someone to then try and defend the bombing of a ship that is heading away from confrontation,
is ridiculous beyond comprehension.

We were at war they were a legitimate target.

[liamlion]

I think war is bad.

Furthermore, I think starting a war and killing other human beings (regardless of nationality) over a small piece of land thousands of miles from home in order to keep international face is frankly moronic.

Argentina started the war. They invaded the Falklands.

What right has Britain got over the Falklands?? Are the British not invading the place? Classic imperialism.

And for someone to then try and defend the bombing of a ship that is heading away from confrontation,
is ridiculous beyond comprehension.

We were at war they were a legitimate target.

If you say so. I don't agree. I think it's quite sinister bombing someone in retreat. But then I'm not blinded by patriotism and am no fan of war.... Just out of interest, what are the international rules of engagement?

[banjo]

British coal was crap wasn't it? Too much sulphur or summat. Foreign coal was better quality and better value.

The motor industry had the same problem, paying over the odds for a piece of poo built here when you can get something from Germany or Japan which won't fall apart and costs less.

The manufacturing industries definitley needed a shake up and a lot of the blame has to go to the management of these companies. Such as the motorbike industry over here (BSA, Triumph, Norton etc.), we had a 50 year head start on the Japanese on designing and making bikes yet they seemed to overtake us in a few years. We seemed to have the ideology that the bikes we produced worked fine, so why bother developing them further

IMO the manufacturing industries (and mines) needed modernising, investing and in and a change of culture instilling in them, something the governments should've been doing. They didn't deserve to be lined up against a wall and shot, putting an extra 1.8m on the dole

[Horse]

What right has Britain got over the Falklands?? Are the British not invading the place? Classic imperialism.

The people of the Falklands wanted to stay in British hands. Argentina invaded, not Britain.

If you say so. I don't agree. I think it's quite sinister bombing someone in retreat.

What if they came back later and killed British sailors/soldiers? Do you think that would be okay?

But then I'm not blinded by patriotism and am no fan of war....

You seem to be blinded by your lack of patriotism. Siding against Britain any chance you get doesn't make you smarter than a patriot and it doesn't make you right.

[dewipowell]

Just watched Return Of The Jedi. Disgusted by the distasteful scenes at the end where everyone is celebrating the death of Emperor Palpatine. He may have been divisive, but he was strong and he made decisions and stuck to them, and I think he should get a bit of respect. He was, after all, a little old man who died, when you remove any other context whatsoever.

[orbtastic]

Doesn't the captain of the Belgrano say himself that he was heading back into the exclusion zone? The Admiral of the time also said it wasn't a war crime and they were prepared for an attack the very next day.

[Mimmy]

Just like the miners strike the coppers have hit the jackpot again. All on overtime for the funeral

[Chambers2]

i'm sickened by the BBC's coverage which is siding quite strongly with the tory pro thatcher faction. showing her "soft" side. really!!

Stuff like this always makes me smile, the right wingers and the Mail have been giving the BBC both barrels all week over their coverage of Thatcher's death. As per they're accused of a left-wing bias, now you're accusing them of being pro-Thatcher, and you're not the only one. It reminds me of the Israel-Palestine conflict, they're accused of bias from both sides there too. It means that they're actually doing a decent job of staying neutral when both sides are having a go.

The BBCs coverage of the Miners strike was far from being unbiassed, to the point where they edited the battle of Orgreave to make it look like it was the Miners attacking the police when it was the exact opposite. That sums up the bullyboy tactics that Maggie used throughout her tenure

[banjo]

Doesn't the captain of the Belgrano say himself that he was heading back into the exclusion zone? The Admiral of the time also said it wasn't a war crime and they were prepared for an attack the very next day.

Yes you are correct, it was a bit of a masterstroke really as it kept Argentinas WW2 era navy vessels in port as they were no match for the modern nuclear powered hunter-killer submarines possessed by the Royal Navy.

Was bombing a ship which was disembarking British soldiers a war crime? Nope and neither was sinking a heavily armed enemy battlecruiser.

[palooka]

I think war is bad.

Furthermore, I think starting a war and killing other human beings (regardless of nationality) over a small piece of land thousands of miles from home in order to keep international face is frankly moronic.

And for someone to then try and defend the bombing of a ship that is heading away from confrontation,
is ridiculous beyond comprehension.

Take your Union Jack hat off and look at it objectively.[/quote]

I am no fan of Thatcher and I am certainly no fan of British rule in the Falklands BUT I don't see
what else Thatcher could have done over the Falklands, there is no way they should let some tin
pot, fascistic, military dictatorship invade the islands. These people threw civillians out of aeroplanes - the Falklands was one of the few things she was justified in doing to be honest. I don't like saying it but it is true. To leave the population at the hands of an evil pudendum like Galtieri and that military regime would have been wrong.[/quote]

That lot in Chile did as well didn't they Carlos? Thatcher and Pinochet were very cosy from all accounts.