Who do you think won Lewis-Holyfield II

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 20 Oct 2005, 23:06

I am posting this because I am still surprised that so many people favoured Holyfield. When I first saw the fight I scored it 117-113 to Lewis, the exact same score I had for their first fight. I will freely admit now that my scoring was affected by the commentators comments, who saw rounds 1 and 4 as clear Lewis rounds, but upon rewatching the fight several times, with the volume on and off, rounds 1 and 4 are clearly very close.

In Lewis's favour:
Official scorecards 115-113, 116-112 and 117-111 all to Lewis.
Commentator Harold Lederman scored it 116-112 to Lewis.
Commentator Glen McRory scored it 116-113 to Lewis.
Commentator Ian Darke scored it 115-114 to Lewis.
PunchStat numbers favour Lewis but a big margin.
Website BoxingTimes favoured Lewis 115-113.

In Holyfield's favour:
Emmanuel Steward said the fight was very close, he was disappointed with Lewis's performance, and the fight could easily have been given to Holyfield.
About 80% of the ringside boxing media favoured Holyfield.
117-111 Lewis is clearly payback for the robbery in the first fight.

After watching and analysing the fight many times, this is how I see the rounds:
Round 1 - Very close round, Lewis a bit busier and landing a bit more.
10-9 Lewis.
Round 2 - Clear round to Lewis, frequently landing jabs and some heavier shots, Holy not doing much. 20-18 Lewis.
Round 3 - Lewis easily winning the first 2mins of the round and outlanding Holy who finishes the round with 2 solid blows and a flurry. 30-27 Lewis.
Round 4 - Very close round, similar punch output, Lewis landing a bit more, Holy landing a bit more solidly. Even round for me. 40-37 Lewis.
Round 5 - Close round again, Holyfield taking the first half, Lewis the second. Too close to call. 50-47 Lewis.
Round 6 - Clear round to Holy, Lewis abondoning his jab and letting Holy take charge and outwork him. 59-57 Lewis.
Round 7 - Lewis dominates the first minute, then Holyfield staggers him with a big left hook and several more hurting shots down the close.
68-67 Lewis
Round 8 - Holyfield getting tired, Lewis easily outworking and outlanding him to take this round clearly. 78-76 Lewis.
Round 9 - Good round with both fighters scoring with solid shots, Holyfield takes it reasonably clearly though. 87-86 Lewis.
Round 10 - Easy round to Lewis, landing several hard shots, Holyfield not firing much back. 97-95 Lewis.
Round 11 - Another round to Lewis who is still working well, landing fast combinations compared to Holy's single shots. 107-104 Lewis.
Round 12 - Holyfields last round, who is busier than Lewis and land better shots.
FINAL SCORE 116-114 to Lennox Lewis

Overall I think it is a close fight, but for me Holyfield really didn't do enough to win any rounds other than 6, 7, 9 and 12. Close, but not as Close as Lewis-Mercer IMO, which I gave to Lewis by 1 point, although he gave one of the poorest performances of his career.

I would be very interested to see other people's interpretations of the fight.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 20 Oct 2005, 23:50

I had Lennox Lewis winning the first fight by 116-114, and Evander Holyfield winning the second by 116-114. Not that it's the final authority, but even the commentators were remarking about how much better Holyfield was doing in the second fight.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 21 Oct 2005, 01:53

..i thought lewis won both fights, but, ironically, the second was much closer than the first which was called a draw.

woe31 · Post by **woe31** » 21 Oct 2005, 02:42

My memory is a little hazy regarding the second fight (the first fight is one I'll never forget) but I remember at the time of the fight scoring the bout slightly in favour of Holyfield.... around 115-114 or similar. I had scored the first fight a draw* and remember being impressed with Holy's improvements in the second fight. I'd be interested to re-watch the fight now though to refresh my memory.

*I scored the first fight 114-114. Lewis dominated his rounds but not quite enough to score them 10-8 and took a lot of rounds off. Holy didn't do much, but did enough to steal 6 rounds IMO

heartandsoulofboxing · Post by **heartandsoulofboxing** » 21 Oct 2005, 05:51

lewis won the fight. but because he is an arrogant jerk people were partial to holyfield.

but there is no way holyfield won the fight. he should have retired following that fight with some dignity intact.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 21 Oct 2005, 06:29

heartandsoulofboxing wrote:lewis won the fight. but because he is an arrogant jerk people were partial to holyfield.

but there is no way holyfield won the fight. he should have retired following that fight with some dignity intact.

Perfectly summed up.

Lewis edged it.

Tantum · Post by **Tantum** » 21 Oct 2005, 08:38

KO Atrist wrote:
heartandsoulofboxing wrote:lewis won the fight. but because he is an arrogant jerk people were partial to holyfield.

but there is no way holyfield won the fight. he should have retired following that fight with some dignity intact.
Perfectly summed up.

Lewis edged it.

H&SOB was talking about the first fight.

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 21 Oct 2005, 11:54

Holyfield won round 1. Lewis hardly landed anything and Holyfield controlled the ring and landed a couple of good shots.

Rd 3 is best scored even. Lewis did win the first 2 minutes but landed nothing significant. Holyfield shook him up in the last 30 seconds and was punded on him in the last 5 as Lewis was holding his arm. Not enough to win the round but Lewis still doesn't win that b/c he won the first 2 min fighting defensively.

Rd 5-Close but clear for Evander. If you're watching the HBO broadcast Lampley remarks on two 'big shots from Lewis' that clearly don't land clean at all. Holyfield outlanded him with the better shots this round.

I agree round 4 and round 8, both close rounds, go to Lennox.

tiredoldngrey · Post by **tiredoldngrey** » 21 Oct 2005, 12:30

In the first fight Lewis won easily because he fought the right fight; Holyfield ate jabs like candy and Lewis kept it on him. He missed the key to the ko in the 5th when he folded Holyfield up with a body punch and never went back there. In the 2nd fight he won but made me think he isn't too smart. Why wait to punch til Evander is near enough to punch, when he's proved defenseless vs. the jab

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 21 Oct 2005, 12:51

Lewis won them both. Can't remember who but a major contributor here who has yet to weigh in will have a decidedly different viewpoint.

Boxer-Slugger · Post by **Boxer-Slugger** » 21 Oct 2005, 13:05

The first fight I had it Lewis by Decision and the second fight I had it the other way, Holyfield by close decision

jezzamundo · Post by **jezzamundo** » 21 Oct 2005, 23:18

Holyfield won round 1. Lewis hardly landed anything and Holyfield controlled the ring and landed a couple of good shots.

Rd 3 is best scored even. Lewis did win the first 2 minutes but landed nothing significant. Holyfield shook him up in the last 30 seconds and was punded on him in the last 5 as Lewis was holding his arm. Not enough to win the round but Lewis still doesn't win that b/c he won the first 2 min fighting defensively.

Rd 5-Close but clear for Evander. If you're watching the HBO broadcast Lampley remarks on two 'big shots from Lewis' that clearly don't land clean at all. Holyfield outlanded him with the better shots this round.

I agree round 4 and round 8, both close rounds, go to Lennox.

Fair enough I reckon, I did consider scoring round 1 even, but would definitely not give it to Holy, I thought Lennox was more in control of the round personally, even if his jabs weren't landing all that solidly.

Round 3 I give to Lewis pretty clearly, he did win the first 2mins fighting defensively, I guess that's where you and I score it differently. For me Lewis won round 3 almost as clearly as he did round 2.

I also have no problems with Holyfield being given round 5 though, it's a close round but you definitely can't give it to Lewis.

So the closest I can possibly score the fight is a 115-115 draw, and that's while scoring round 4 even, which went to Lewis on most scorecards (my stuff up maybe?).

My main complaint is that people freely say "Lewis won the first fight, Holyfield won the second". I don't think you can clearly say that with a fight so close, perhaps saying that you scored it to Holyfield is fine, but to openly say that Holy was robbed is just wrong IMO. 117-111 and 116-112 are definitely too wide a margin, and as a result of the first robbery, but to say Holyfield clearly won and that the fight was gifted to Lewis is a bit rich.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 22 Oct 2005, 00:04

Those at ringside are always (or should we say the majority of the time) the most accurate of who won a fight or not -

On TV you have commentators influencing opinions, the TV camera only gives certain angles, the TV does not allow for the sense of "who is controling the fight" the way being "live" at a fight does (controling the fight is part of scoring a fight...it isn't just "punch stat numbers"...which many don't understand).

That being said, the second fight was won by an "old" Holyfield. He set the pace, set the tone, was the only fighter so shake up the other guy, landed the bigger shots (if he had the legs of his youth he would have cut off the ring and stopped Lewis without a doubt).

The only reason Lennox was given the second decision was for a make-up for the first decision. The scores alone prove that. Those judges were instructed to "give" Lennox the close rounds.

Again, the fact remains Lennox's OWN trainer has said as much (that Holyfield could / should have been given the Dec in the second fight) in a number of interviews. That basically says it all.

Lennox should be very thankful for his God given size and that he came into his prime (and fought) an "old" Holyfield (and still only split those two fights with him).