Should Convicted PED Users Be Allowed In The IBHOF?

keithmoonhangover · Post by **keithmoonhangover** » 30 Apr 2013, 05:02

I'm not talking about suspected drugs cheats, just the ones that have failed drug tests. Tarver, Toney etc. Any thoughts?

desperados · Post by **desperados** » 30 Apr 2013, 05:56

good question. I'm inclined to say yes they should be allowed. IF we allow them to fight again then why limit what they can achieve? I'm a believer in you do your time then move on. It would seem ridiculous not to have Sugar Shane in it.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 30 Apr 2013, 06:46

desperados wrote:good question. I'm inclined to say yes they should be allowed. IF we allow them to fight again then why limit what they can achieve? I'm a believer in you do your time then move on. It would seem ridiculous not to have Sugar Shane in it.

Whilst admitting taking drugs, Sugar Shane hasn't failed a test.

desperados · Post by **desperados** » 30 Apr 2013, 06:49

stujones wrote:
desperados wrote:good question. I'm inclined to say yes they should be allowed. IF we allow them to fight again then why limit what they can achieve? I'm a believer in you do your time then move on. It would seem ridiculous not to have Sugar Shane in it.
Whilst admitting taking drugs, Sugar Shane hasn't failed a test.

Peterson didn't fail a commissions test either, it was a voulintary test.

Would this exclusion only be for commission ordered tests that fail? Or do we include voulintary failures like Peterson and Morales? Or do we include voulintary admissions like Mosley?

Too much of a gray area for me, in more ways than 1.

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 30 Apr 2013, 17:22

Yup, excellent question. In theory yes, in practice, no

You can't have Roy jones excluded and have say umm Manny Paquiao included in the HOF.

lefty · Post by **lefty** » 30 Apr 2013, 17:31

desperados wrote:
stujones wrote:
desperados wrote:good question. I'm inclined to say yes they should be allowed. IF we allow them to fight again then why limit what they can achieve? I'm a believer in you do your time then move on. It would seem ridiculous not to have Sugar Shane in it.
Whilst admitting taking drugs, Sugar Shane hasn't failed a test.
Peterson didn't fail a commissions test either, it was a voulintary test.

Would this exclusion only be for commission ordered tests that fail? Or do we include voulintary failures like Peterson and Morales? Or do we include voulintary admissions like Mosley?

Too much of a gray area for me, in more ways than 1.

Thats slightly different though. Whilst Petersons test was a voluntary he still failed it. Mosley on the other hand has admitted to taking PED's but never actually failed a test.

desperados · Post by **desperados** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:01

columbo wrote:Thats slightly different though. Whilst Petersons test was a voluntary he still failed it. Mosley on the other hand has admitted to taking PED's but never actually failed a test.

yeah but it was a test that was external of the boxing comish - so in theory you could argue it has as much relevance as a SSM style admission of guilt.

Take Morales-Garcia II for example, Morales failed an external VADA test but passed the comission less strict tests. Garcai said screw it and the fight went ahead anyway.

So where do you place Morales in this conundrum... would he be excluded from the HOF or doest he fact he has never failed an official test from the commission and the fight went ahead place him in the Mosley bracket?

keithmoonhangover · Post by **keithmoonhangover** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:03

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Yup, excellent question. In theory yes, in practice, no

You can't have Roy jones excluded and have say umm Manny Paquiao included in the HOF.

Manny hasn't failed any tests and it's innocent until proven guilty, so he's in.

lefty · Post by **lefty** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:05

desperados wrote:
columbo wrote:Thats slightly different though. Whilst Petersons test was a voluntary he still failed it. Mosley on the other hand has admitted to taking PED's but never actually failed a test.

yeah but it was a test that was external of the boxing comish - so in theory you could argue it has as much relevance as a SSM style admission of guilt.

Take Morales-Garcia II for example, Morales failed an external VADA test but passed the comission less strict tests. Garcai said screw it and the fight went ahead anyway.

So where do you place Morales in this conundrum... would he be excluded from the HOF or doest he fact he has never failed an official test from the commission and the fight went ahead place him in the Mosley bracket?

Id say even though the test wasnt officially recognised, as absurd as it is id say that a test gives definite proof that someone has cheated *well in theory anyway* whereas even though Mosley has admitted to drug taking it's just his word for it!

Khaosai-Galaxy · Post by **Khaosai-Galaxy** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:32

keithmoonhangover wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Yup, excellent question. In theory yes, in practice, no

You can't have Roy jones excluded and have say umm Manny Paquiao included in the HOF.
Manny hasn't failed any tests and it's innocent until proven guilty, so he's in.

Which is my whole point.

Manny has not failed any tests, however if you look at his reasons for not taking the Mayweather fight, he basically told everyone what steroid cycle he was using...

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:44

columbo wrote:Id say even though the test wasnt officially recognised, as absurd as it is id say that a test gives definite proof that someone has cheated *well in theory anyway* whereas even though Mosley has admitted to drug taking it's just his word for it!

Yes, what you are saying is quite absurd.

I don't see how Peterson's situation is worse than Mosley's.

Freedom2013 · Post by **Freedom2013** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:50

Lamont Cheaterson (Synthetic Testosterone)
James "Belly's Out" Toney X 2 (Boldenone & stanozolol)
Roid Jones Jr (Androstenedione)
Antonio Tarver (Drostanolone)
Sadam Ali (Cathine)
Shame Mosley (Tetrahydrogestrinone)
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr (Furosemide / Marijuana metabolites)
Fernando Vargas (Stanozolol)
Ricardo Mayorga (Furosemide)
Eloy Pérez (Cocaine)
Danny Batchelder (Stanazolol & oxandolone)
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cocaine)
Evander Holyfield (Elevated testosterone, HGH & saizen)
Mike Tyson (Marijuana metabolites)
Joan Guzmán (Furosemide)
Orlando Salido (Nandrolone)
Francois Botha (Nandrolone)
Tommy Morrison ("steroids")
Pernell Whitaker (Cocaine)
Ali Funeka (Hydrochlorothiazide)
Larry Olubamiwo (Erythropoietin / "thirteen banned substances")
Andre Berto (Norandrosterone)
Ali Adams (Stanozolol)

desperados · Post by **desperados** » 30 Apr 2013, 18:58

Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:
Khaosai-Galaxy wrote:Yup, excellent question. In theory yes, in practice, no

You can't have Roy jones excluded and have say umm Manny Paquiao included in the HOF.
Manny hasn't failed any tests and it's innocent until proven guilty, so he's in.
Which is my whole point.

Manny has not failed any tests, however if you look at his reasons for not taking the Mayweather fight, he basically told everyone what steroid cycle he was using...

theres as much logic behind that as the rumoured 3 A samples Mayweather failed.

lefty · Post by **lefty** » 30 Apr 2013, 19:00

Horse wrote:
columbo wrote:Id say even though the test wasnt officially recognised, as absurd as it is id say that a test gives definite proof that someone has cheated *well in theory anyway* whereas even though Mosley has admitted to drug taking it's just his word for it!
Yes, what you are saying is quite absurd.

I don't see how Peterson's situation is worse than Mosley's.

Well Peterson has officially failed a drug test, it's on paper. Mosley hasnt! Its not that absurd.

Horse · Post by **Horse** » 30 Apr 2013, 19:06

columbo wrote:Well Peterson has officially failed a drug test, it's on paper. Mosley hasnt! Its not that absurd.

I disagree.

DMA1987 · Post by **DMA1987** » 30 Apr 2013, 19:09

Depends if they were using whilst building their HOF resume.

n1ebf · Post by **n1ebf** » 30 Apr 2013, 19:15

Larry Olubamiwo (Erythropoietin / "thirteen banned substances")

I was only away for a year or so.......what's all this??

MEISINGER · Post by **MEISINGER** » 30 Apr 2013, 20:28

this is such a tricky question

while i hate a drug cheat
can you really exclude roy jones jr or james toney

Perseus · Post by **Perseus** » 30 Apr 2013, 22:25

Ever been to the IBHOF or any other sports HOF?
A Hall of Fame for any sport is just a museum for said sport and absolutely nothing more.
Well................maybe they are about money considering the price to tour the building and all the high priced yet utterly worthless trinkets they sell.
Museums are about history...........both the good and the bad.
Trying to act like the history never happened because the history maker represents part of the bad just doesn't make any sense.

If their accomplishments say their smiling face should be on some worthless plaque in a museum that that stores the history of the sport then they should get inducted.

keithmoonhangover · Post by **keithmoonhangover** » 01 May 2013, 13:30

Freedom2013 wrote:Lamont Cheaterson (Synthetic Testosterone)
James "Belly's Out" Toney X 2 (Boldenone & stanozolol)
Roid Jones Jr (Androstenedione)
Antonio Tarver (Drostanolone)
Sadam Ali (Cathine)
Shame Mosley (Tetrahydrogestrinone)
Julio Cesar Chavez Jr (Furosemide / Marijuana metabolites)
Fernando Vargas (Stanozolol)
Ricardo Mayorga (Furosemide)
Eloy Pérez (Cocaine)
Danny Batchelder (Stanazolol & oxandolone)
Juan Carlos Gomez (Cocaine)
Evander Holyfield (Elevated testosterone, HGH & saizen)
Mike Tyson (Marijuana metabolites)
Joan Guzmán (Furosemide)
Orlando Salido (Nandrolone)
Francois Botha (Nandrolone)
Tommy Morrison ("steroids")
Pernell Whitaker (Cocaine)
Ali Funeka (Hydrochlorothiazide)
Larry Olubamiwo (Erythropoietin / "thirteen banned substances")
Andre Berto (Norandrosterone)
Ali Adams (Stanozolol)

When did Tyson test positive for a PED?

Cocaine isn't a PED.

mcjarvo · Post by **mcjarvo** » 02 May 2013, 07:48

Cocaine could but used as a PED it makes you feel invisible and gives you confidence and energy lol. The IBHOF a joke sylvester stallone is in there who has never had a pro or amateur fight and the ref Joe Cortez.

warriorbox · Post by **warriorbox** » 02 May 2013, 07:56

If someone is found to be 'cheating' by taking PEDs, then I think there should be a separate part of the ceremony where they are inducted. Sounds stupid but if you have become good enough for the hof but knowingly cheated to get there, then this should be part of the punishment.

lefty · Post by **lefty** » 02 May 2013, 08:00

warriorbox wrote:If someone is found to be 'cheating' by taking PEDs, then I think there should be a separate part of the ceremony where they are inducted. Sounds stupid but if you have become good enough for the hof but knowingly cheated to get there, then this should be part of the punishment.

can you imagine that though?!

..... "and here comes the drug cheats"

warriorbox · Post by **warriorbox** » 02 May 2013, 08:06

columbo wrote:
warriorbox wrote:If someone is found to be 'cheating' by taking PEDs, then I think there should be a separate part of the ceremony where they are inducted. Sounds stupid but if you have become good enough for the hof but knowingly cheated to get there, then this should be part of the punishment.
can you imagine that though?! ..... "and here comes the drug cheats"

I know, would be pretty funny, and I'm sure most inductees would stay at home. But it would send a clear message to anyone considering taking PEDs

lefty · Post by **lefty** » 02 May 2013, 08:11

mcjarvo wrote:Cocaine could but used as a PED it makes you feel invisible and gives you confidence and energy lol. The IBHOF a joke sylvester stallone is in there who has never had a pro or amateur fight and the ref Joe Cortez.

I think you mean Invincible but im sure if you take enough coke you can probably feel invisible aswell