British & Irish Top 30 P4P May 2013

[Horse]

Cleverly should be above kahn and fury. Kahn looked
awful against diaz and holds no title. Fury is a very limited fighter who has loads of heart. Cleverly a much better athlete and boxer

Cleverly has been fighting no marks recently. I am not going to give him much credit for that.

Khan did look bad against Diaz, but I'd say Diaz is better than any of Cleverly's recent opposition. Fury's win against Cunningham is a much better win than anyone Cleverly has beaten since Bellew and it is arguably a better win than both his Bellew and Murat wins were.

[Horse]

Horse,

Thanks for the list.

However, in my opinion it should be a snap shot of how fighters stack up this month - and whilst sure, losses and former glories should play a small part in it, you shouldn't let that influence how they look right this moment in time "in May".

For me it's this:-

1. Who has someone fought
2. How they looked , even if a close defeat

Not

1. Won a vacant world title, or is undefeated
2. Boxed nobody remotely top 50
3. Was victorious but looked terrible (tedious 12 rounds over a shot fighter / nobody, or hung on for life)

In closing, a losing Brit who is fighting the elite and giving them hell, should always rank higher than someone who is handpicking / fighting unheralded nobodies.

So, do you agree with Murray's rating?

[Horse]

Woah Horse! Murray lost. I don't care if it was against the best in the division but a 15 place jump is way too big. What if he had of won - would he be No. 1?

Murray has arguably beaten both Martinez and Sturm, he deserves a good ranking. Cleverly has done nothing recently, I couldn't keep Murray below him. If he had been given the decision then he might have been No. 1.

If that's the case then Khan should drop by a number of places considering he was in a world of trouble against a mediocre fighter but just scrapped the win.

Diaz might be mediocre at world level, but it is still a win against a former world champion who was on decent form.

[Pugilist-specialist]

Good list Horse.

But Rendall Munroe again?

[Deno1986]

Woah Horse! Murray lost. I don't care if it was against the best in the division but a 15 place jump is way too big. What if he had of won - would he be No. 1?

Murray has arguably beaten both Martinez and Sturm, he deserves a good ranking. Cleverly has done nothing recently, I couldn't keep Murray below him. If he had been given the decision then he might have been No. 1.

If that's the case then Khan should drop by a number of places considering he was in a world of trouble against a mediocre fighter but just scrapped the win.

Diaz might be mediocre at world level, but it is still a win against a former world champion who was on decent form.

I agree Murray should be top 10 but he lost the fight and that doesn't warrant a 15 place jump based on your past rankings and criteria. Apart from the draw against Sturm he doesn't really have any big results on his record. I think people are getting carried away with Murray a bit.

Thanks for posting and replying as always though.

[Horse]

Good List Horse

Cheers, bigB.

Guessing if Jamie McDonnell wins on May 11th he will jump with becoming IBF world champion.

Same if Purdy beats Alexander

Yes, they'll both move up a fair bit if they win those IBF titles.

[Horse]

Good list. No major quibbles aside from the inclusion of Afolabi.

My Top 10 (based purely on performance, opposition and activity over the 12 months to 30/4/13)

1 - Froch
2 - Burns
3 - M Murray
4 - Cleverly
5 - Haye
6 - Macklin
7 - Frampton
8 - Brook
9 - Khan
10 - Fury

Cleverly has only beaten Hawk and Krasniqi in the last 12 months. He barely deserves a top 30 place based on his recent fights.

[Horse]

Mine is

1. Carl Froch
2. Ricky Burns
3. David Haye
4. Amir Khan
5. Nathan Cleverly
6. Martin Murray
7. Matthew Macklin
8. Kell Brook
9. Ola Afolabi
10. Tyson Fury

I don't get the love for Cleverly. His opposition over the last 18 months has been pretty much worthless.

[expe]

Mine is

1. Carl Froch
2. Ricky Burns
3. David Haye
4. Amir Khan
5. Nathan Cleverly
6. Martin Murray
7. Matthew Macklin
8. Kell Brook
9. Ola Afolabi
10. Tyson Fury

I don't get the love for Cleverly. His opposition over the last 18 months has been pretty much worthless.

Opposition has been poor, but while I thought Murray won the Sturm and Martinez fights, ultimately he didn't get either decision and I think Cleverly is the better of the two.

[Horse]

Good list Horse.

But Rendall Munroe again?

Munroe is fighting this month.

[Horse]

I agree Murray should be top 10 but he lost the fight and that doesn't warrant a 15 place jump based on your past rankings and criteria. Apart from the draw against Sturm he doesn't really have any big results on his record. I think people are getting carried away with Murray a bit.

Thanks for posting and replying as always though.

Arguably beating both Martinez and Sturm is far more than Cleverly, Brook and most other fighters in the rankings have on their records.

[Horse]

Opposition has been poor, but while I thought Murray won the Sturm and Martinez fights, ultimately he didn't get either decision and I think Cleverly is the better of the two.

It would be good if he could prove it.

[Finch]

Horse, I think you are being Harsh with Cleverly.

[Horse]

Horse, I think you are being Harsh with Cleverly.

No, he needs more abuse, not less. Everyone is going easy on him.

His reign as champion has been a bloody disgrace.

[brian13]

I agree with Cleverly being low and he should be lower in my eyes because Horse is right his opponents have been terrible recently. He is fighting crap and the fact he is a WBO world champion means he is so high. I would probably put Cleverly lower down in my list than five.

Don't agree with Murray being so high though. He still lost to Martinez and drew to Sturm.

[expe]

Opposition has been poor, but while I thought Murray won the Sturm and Martinez fights, ultimately he didn't get either decision and I think Cleverly is the better of the two.

It would be good if he could prove it.

Beating Braehmer would go some way towards it, hopefully Warren can get it in Cardiff in July.

[Horse]

I agree with Cleverly being low and he should be lower in my eyes because Horse is right his opponents have been terrible recently. He is fighting crap and the fact he is a WBO world champion means he is so high. I would probably put Cleverly lower down in my list than five.

Don't agree with Murray being so high though. He still lost to Martinez and drew to Sturm.

Losing to Martinez and drawing with Sturm is still better than just about anything anyone else on the list has achieved.

[Horse]

Beating Braehmer would go some way towards it, hopefully Warren can get it in Cardiff in July.

That would be a good win against a top 10 opponent. Braehmer isn't as good as Martinez though.

[Dan Dares]

Thanks for this discussion ,its good to read others points of view. Mines, for what its worth

Cleverley
Haye
Burns
Froch
Murray
Brook
Khan
Selby
McDonnell
Macklin

If you've got Cleverly above Froch then it means f**k all. How do you work that out?

[earsjohn]

Good list. No major quibbles aside from the inclusion of Afolabi.

My Top 10 (based purely on performance, opposition and activity over the 12 months to 30/4/13)

1 - Froch
2 - Burns
3 - M Murray
4 - Cleverly
5 - Haye
6 - Macklin
7 - Frampton
8 - Brook
9 - Khan
10 - Fury

Cleverly has only beaten Hawk and Krasniqi in the last 12 months. He barely deserves a top 30 place based on his recent fights.

But you have him at 7 in your list. The differences being:

- Haye - in the period he has beaten Chisora well (fringe top 15 / euro level - below Krasniqi; way above Hawk)
- Khan - in the period he has been crushed by Garcia (top 5), cruised against Molina (>Hawk,<Krasniqi) and had a life or death struggle against another top 20'er (Diaz)
- Fury - He is ranked too low on my list. His record over the last 12 months includes a comfortable win over a top 15 Johnson and a semi-struggle in victory over a fringe top 10 Cunningham. He also has a pointless win over Vinny Maddalone. His ranking will rise during my next monthly update.

In all, Cleverly is ranked so high almost by default in that over the last year he has been solid while the other UK fighters around his level have either failed (Khan, Price), been inactive (Macklin) or have not fought great opposition either (Brook, Bellew, Groves).

[Clint Magnum]

Thread lost my respect and attention when Fury's name came up. The bare minimum for a p4p fighter has to be a skill set which includes some ability to slip, parry or counter at least one of his opponent's punches. Fury still closes his eyes and leans his head away from shots FFS.

As the great Elvis once sang "You aint so big, you just tall...that's all..."

[Horse]

But you have him at 7 in your list. The differences being:

Three places lower is a lot in the top 10.

- Haye - in the period he has beaten Chisora well (fringe top 15 / euro level - below Krasniqi; way above Hawk)

Chisora is better than Kraniqi.

- Khan - in the period he has been crushed by Garcia (top 5), cruised against Molina (>Hawk,<Krasniqi) and had a life or death struggle against another top 20'er (Diaz)

Diaz is better than anyone Cleverly has fought recently. Khan could have looked good battering bums as well if he wanted to be like Cleverly.

- Fury - He is ranked too low on my list. His record over the last 12 months includes a comfortable win over a top 15 Johnson and a semi-struggle in victory over a fringe top 10 Cunningham. He also has a pointless win over Vinny Maddalone. His ranking will rise during my next monthly update.

Good.

In all, Cleverly is ranked so high almost by default in that over the last year he has been solid while the other UK fighters around his level have either failed (Khan, Price), been inactive (Macklin) or have not fought great opposition either (Brook, Bellew, Groves).

Groves and Bellew have fought much better opposition than Cleverly in the last 12 months.

[Horse]

Thread lost my respect and attention when Fury's name came up. The bare minimum for a p4p fighter has to be a skill set which includes some ability to slip, parry or counter at least one of his opponent's punches. Fury still closes his eyes and leans his head away from shots FFS.

As the great Elvis once sang "You aint so big, you just tall...that's all..."

Fury has many good wins, he belongs high on the list.

Anyone who wouldn't rank him in their British top 30 would have a very silly list.

[Pugilist-specialist]

Good list Horse.

But Rendall Munroe again?

Munroe is fighting this month.

I was aware of that - I don't think TBA is yet.

[Horse]

I was aware of that - I don't think TBA is yet.

I think he's fighting Al Hamidi, so not a great opponent.