Roy Jones Jr Vs Sugar Ray Leonard at Middleweight

[BoxBuzz]

Is Leonard able to do to Roy, what he did to Marvin?

[MEISINGER]

this is a more interesting match up then the rjj hagler thread

rjj was just a baby when he was a middleweight
he had not developed into the superstar that was at super middle and light heavy

leonard was far from his best at middle weight

good match up

[gilgamesh]

Is Leonard able to do to Roy, what he did to Marvin?

No. That being said, I figure the Middleweight Roy Jones was still pretty green whereas the Middleweight Leonard while not at his best weight was certainly very experienced against World Class Competition so that makes this an interesting bout. A lot of the time Leonard's quickness was a big advantage against his opponents well Roy was every bit as fast as him at Middleweight if not a hair faster. I think it's a very good fight and it's interesting. I think Roy's off the wall offensive style would throw Leonard off his game enough that he'd jump out to a pretty big lead in the early going, I get the feeling Leonard would figure out a way to get to Roy and start making it a tougher night for him by the end of the fight, but he'd run out of time and Roy Jones would take a close decision.

[MEISINGER]

Is Leonard able to do to Roy, what he did to Marvin?

No. That being said, I figure the Middleweight Roy Jones was still pretty green whereas the Middleweight Leonard while not at his best weight was certainly very experienced against World Class Competition so that makes this an interesting bout. A lot of the time Leonard's quickness was a big advantage against his opponents well Roy was every bit as fast as him at Middleweight if not a hair faster. I think it's a very good fight and it's interesting. I think Roy's off the wall offensive style would throw Leonard off his game enough that he'd jump out to a pretty big lead in the early going, I get the feeling Leonard would figure out a way to get to Roy and start making it a tougher night for him by the end of the fight, but he'd run out of time and Roy Jones would take a close decision.

i can see exactly what you are saying
this is a close one....i would also lean towards rjj

[dempseyfire]

At middle I like Roy.

[King Carlos]

Roy. Everyone loves the Toney fight, right? Peak Roy, right? That was his first fight at Super Middle. I'm pretty sure he wasn't green in the fight just prior. Anything post-Hopkins is pretty much Roy in his prime, up until he left the Super Middleweight division. Not that he fell off from a talent standpoint, but he just wasn't as effective against Lt. Heavies, in my opinion.

[Rover]

RJJ for me.

[Ezzard]

An old Ray who was fighting at the weight for the first time...it seems like Jones has too many advantages here. Leonard was a better boxer but I fear size and youth would make it close. I'd expect Jones to steal a close one but at some point Leonard will nail him and if Jones doesn't keep his feet that point could sway things. Leonard was also a great finisher.

[loaded_gloves]

Ray beat Marvin Hagler coming off the best part of a five year layoff - in a tough, fast-paced, bruising battle. That trumps anything Roy did at middle, super middle, and light heavy.

Ray is too diverse, too tough, too much of everything for Roy who was a brilliant boxer but not much of a fighter.

[Ezzard]

Ray beat Marvin Hagler coming off the best part of a five year layoff - in a tough, fast-paced, bruising battle. That trumps anything Roy did at middle, super middle, and light heavy.

Ray is too diverse, too tough, too much of everything for Roy who was a brilliant boxer but not much of a fighter.

It trumps his whole career…but could Ray have pulled it off against a quicker guy? I want to say yes.

Leonard’s power was always underrated. And he’s precise enough that he will hit Roy flush…

[loaded_gloves]

One of the reasons Norris couldn't stop a shot Ray Leonard is because he admitted the punches Leonard was throwing were hurting him right till the end.

If Hagler couldn't stop, knock down or really hurt Leonard then Roy isn't going to do it. Also, as for speed, has Roy ever won at a pace? Roy has relatively low activity compared to the all-action of Leonard/Hagler.

[Ezzard]

One of the reasons Norris couldn't stop a shot Ray Leonard is because he admitted the punches Leonard was throwing were hurting him right till the end.

If Hagler couldn't stop, knock down or really hurt Leonard then Roy isn't going to do it. Also, as for speed, has Roy ever won at a pace? Roy has relatively low activity compared to the all-action of Leonard/Hagler.

Just to confirm I meant Roy was quicker than Hagler at the time he fought Leonard.

The Hagler fight was the last time Ray won at a pace. so that works for me...

[JeanMean]

I don't think Leonard could beat Jones Jr.

[Syntax Error]

I don't think Leonard could beat Jones Jr.

I'm in your camp.

I'm not so sure that SRL could jump up & beat RJJ at 160.

SRL was not at his best after 147 & although he was still formidable, he was not really a middleweight.

RJJ is physically bigger, plus he is just as fast, if not faster.

The reason Leonard beat Hagler was because Hagler was so woefully slow (& the fact that Hagler was more interested in cursing Leonard than fighting him); he would not have enjoyed that speed advantage against RJJ.

[Uppercut1]

Awesome hypothetical match.

I'd have to place my bet on RJJ though. I think RJJ would have Leonard doing the stalking for the most part while RJJ fired off his quick straights and hooks then bounced away. Leonard would no doubt take it up a notch in the second half of the fight, winning back some decisive rounds, before RJJ would do enough to win on the already banked rounds he accumulated early.

RJJ by about 2/3 rounds.

[loaded_gloves]

I'm not so sure that SRL could jump up & beat RJJ at 160.

SRL was not at his best after 147 & although he was still formidable, he was not really a middleweight.

Not really a middleweight, yet he beat Marvin Hagler. That sounds like a bonafide middleweight to me.

It's all speculation with Roy Jones, Sugar Ray boxed and beat Hagler. Hagler would have crushed Jones. For all his speed and movement, Leonard had to take heavy leather in his bout with The Marverlous One. Can Jones take heavy leather?

No.

[Syntax Error]

I'm not so sure that SRL could jump up & beat RJJ at 160.

SRL was not at his best after 147 & although he was still formidable, he was not really a middleweight.

Not really a middleweight, yet he beat Marvin Hagler. That sounds like a bonafide middleweight to me.

It's all speculation with Roy Jones, Sugar Ray boxed and beat Hagler. Hagler would have crushed Jones. For all his speed and movement, Leonard had to take heavy leather in his bout with The Marverlous One. Can Jones take heavy leather?

No.

You know what I mean when I say SRL was not really a middleweight.

RJJ once beat a heavyweight & can tell his granchildren that he was heavyweight champion of the world, but RJJ is not really a heavyweight either.

I tend to agree with you when you say that RJJ probably couldn't take heavy leather, but he wouldn't be doing that against Leonard.

RJJ never stood & traded with anyone & he certainly wouldn't have done that against Leonard.

[loaded_gloves]

Roy Jones beat John Ruiz, not Lennox Lewis. So I agree, not a heavyweight.

But Leonard beat Marvin Hagler. The man at middleweight, the boss, the head honcho. He overcame a genuine Great in a bruising, violent, fast-paced encounter.

Leonard is a beast. There is no way he is going to stand back mystified by Roy Jones, if he wouldn't stand back from the one-shot stopping power of Tommy Hearns. Forget Hopkins and Toney, Leonard is a boxer and fighter at elite level. There's no way this wouldn't get physical over 12 rds and Jones will either have to go into his shell or get shellacked.

[llabwons]

I have to say I think the SRL that beat Hagler would beat the middleweight RJJ also.

Whilst he only beat a washed up Marvin, a washed up one is still too good for most middleweights that's ever lived and I actually believe Leonard looked good enough that night to be a match for any ATG middleweight.

Jones may hold a slight edge in speed and I'm not sure of that either, Leonards speed at middleweight was still incredible.

The difference for me is that despite what some may think of Leonard he was a true fighter, with a warriors heart and mentality. I don't think Jones ever had that really, he was light years ahead of who he fought in terms of natural ability in a fairly weak era.

I see Leonard forcing him to fight, taking him out of his comfort zone by facing a man who matches his speed and abilities, then grinding him down for a comfortable decision or possible late stoppage.

[loaded_gloves]

Whilst he only beat a washed up Marvin

Are you serious?

Marvin, "washed up"?

Washed up is Leonard against Camacho. Or McCallum against Jones.

Hagler was a beast in the Leonard fight. Perhaps not at the peak of his powers, but very near to them.

[Syntax Error]

Whilst he only beat a washed up Marvin

Are you serious?

Marvin, "washed up"?

Washed up is Leonard against Camacho. Or McCallum against Jones.

Hagler was a beast in the Leonard fight. Perhaps not at the peak of his powers, but very near to them.

I would argue that it's somewhere in between.

Whilst Hagler may not have been shot to pieces, he certainly wasn't near the peak of his powers.

Marvin's speed had virtually disappeared by 1987 & he was slower than an arthritic snail by the time he fought Leonard.

Leonard banked on this lack of speed as the key to his victory & he turned out to be right.

[Bricks]

Whilst he only beat a washed up Marvin

Are you serious?

Marvin, "washed up"?

Washed up is Leonard against Camacho. Or McCallum against Jones.

Hagler was a beast in the Leonard fight. Perhaps not at the peak of his powers, but very near to them.

hagler was a .75 fighter against SRL based largely on a wrong mentality and inactivity rather than the slight slowing of reflexes/speed it is blamed on frequently. if the fight had been 15 hagler would have shaken off his lethargy and won on pts imo.

its an absurd proposition that the super talented 1988 gold medalist (in reality) in the 5th year of his pro career and a newly crowned world champ RJJ jnr was "green" going into this fight. He was the same guy who beat Toney and was perhaps 15% away from his absolute peak. And that guy would not be able to beat the still fast of hand and foot, hungry SRL of 87 who had such a great fighting brain and who could box or brawl unlike Jones. It would be close but for sure Ray hurts Jones on the way to a 12 round win and Jones jnr could not be that elusive against the speed demon Ray of 87

[CiganoBoxer]

True to form Roy Jones would of ducked Lenard ...like he did most lineal champions in every weight class he fought in

[elmersalsa]

Jones by UD in a boring fight. That if Leonard comes at his very best. If not, then Jones by TKO somewhere in round 8. Leonard beyond 147lbs was not as magnificent nor efficient. Jones would be too fast for him. I could see Roy licking his fingers.

[Rover]

Jones by UD in a boring fight. That if Leonard comes at his very best. If not, then Jones by TKO somewhere in round 8. Leonard beyond 147lbs was not as magnificent nor efficient. Jones would be too fast for him. I could see Roy licking his fingers.

What does that last sentence mean?