He Would Have Been Great If Not For His Glass Jaw

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 22 Oct 2005, 13:06

OK, who fits that description ? Right off the bat I'll name three from living memory.

1. Carl "The Truth" Williams. Outstanding skills, great long jab, decent power, BUT catch him with a solid shot and it's TIMBER !!!

2. Johnny "Bump City" Bumphus. I believe he had over 300 amateur wins, but as a pro he might have done better than briefly holding a world title if allowed to wear headgear. Totally outboxed Gene Hatcher until he got caught in the 11th.

3. Mark Breland. Seize and reach enabled him to avoid alot of power shots in his career, but when they did get through it was all over. For all I know Breland may have been a nice guy, but when I had to listen to Cosell stating that "He possesses the tools to be the greatest ever in his sport" I was pretty happy when Marlon Starling (a guy I always liked) clocked him in 11th round.

Sherlock · Post by **Sherlock** » 22 Oct 2005, 13:35

Cleveland Williams- Had the power to match Shavers or Foreman, an excellent physique, but fell when matched with another puncher.

Marvis Frazier- Talented amateur; probably a combination of freezing in the big fight and a weak chin.

Dante Craig- I thought Craig, a 2000 Olympian, had the power, height and skill to be a great welterweight, but his chin let him down, literally, to the canvas.

Hnery Cooper- Technically doesn't fight the category, but his soft skin kept him from getting any higher than he did.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 22 Oct 2005, 13:35

John Tate had a weak chin, don't know if he would have been great anyway but his inabilty to take a punch didn't help. I remember guys like Ernie Shavers, Mike weaver, and John"The Beast Muguibi" were suseptable to the knockout, but that might have been due to defensive lapses. Frank Bruno, but there again he might not have been great anyway.

A solid jaw does change the whole dynamic of a fight because now a fighter can mount a stronger offense because he doesn't need to worry as much about getting hit. When moving foreward he can say to himself I don't mind if I have to take a few, and then wham he can unleash his punch.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 22 Oct 2005, 13:43

Thomas Hearns! Not a glass jaw in the strictest sense, but if he had been able to take a punch, the way Hagler could, he would have been the greatest fighter of all time, no doubt.

Rory McCloskey · Post by **Rory McCloskey** » 22 Oct 2005, 14:01

thats a good point syntax. would have helped him tremendously

barry · Post by **barry** » 22 Oct 2005, 14:59

Peter Maher
George "KO" Chaney
Ruby Goldstein
Bob Satterfield
Possibly even Tommy Morrison

The End · Post by **The End** » 22 Oct 2005, 16:31

Floyd Patterson, if you don't already consider him great.

Thomas Hearns definitely.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 22 Oct 2005, 16:50

ruby goldstein lol - thanx god he never got hit accidently with one of joe louis punches

great choice in satterfield, i was going to mention him. no doubt he could have been one of the greatest light-H ever had his chin not let him down.

wlad klitschko

- or at least be ruling the division right now

kingpawn · Post by **kingpawn** » 22 Oct 2005, 17:09

Syntax Error wrote:Thomas Hearns! Not a glass jaw in the strictest sense, but if he had been able to take a punch, the way Hagler could, he would have been the greatest fighter of all time, no doubt.

Agreed! Somehow Iran Barkley had Hearns' number. Other than that, Hearns at his very best would never lose a decision. Unfortunately, his opponents were always just one well-landed punch away from turning the whole fight.

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Oct 2005, 04:04

Terry Norris was the complete package- except for his jaw.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 23 Oct 2005, 09:55

kingpawn wrote:
Syntax Error wrote:Thomas Hearns! Not a glass jaw in the strictest sense, but if he had been able to take a punch, the way Hagler could, he would have been the greatest fighter of all time, no doubt.
Agreed! Somehow Iran Barkley had Hearns' number. Other than that, Hearns at his very best would never lose a decision. Unfortunately, his opponents were always just one well-landed punch away from turning the whole fight.

So true.

I never understood how Barkley could beat him over 12 rounds. Barkley was so slow, yet he was able to outbox Hearns!

theone · Post by **theone** » 23 Oct 2005, 14:31

first of all Hearns didnt develop a shaky chin until after he fought Haglar. It was noticably right after when he fough Juan Roldan. A fighter with a glass jaw would not have been able to take the battering Hearns took from Leonard and Haglar for as long as he did.

And even if he did have a glass jaw in his prime, he still shouldnt be mention in this post because he reached greatness anyway.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 23 Oct 2005, 15:07

Marvis Frazier didn't just have a glass jaw, he also wasen't much of a puncher.

I was going to say Terry Norris as well, but he has won some pretty big fights in addition to being a world champion. Still I remember a boxing magazine's skinny on the JMW division awhile back. For Norris they had under STRENGTHS Good handspeed, power and boxing skills. WEAKNESSES Your sister could give him a standing 8 count.

bollox · Post by **bollox** » 23 Oct 2005, 15:40

Tony Mundine comes to mind here as almost a perfect example. The guy had it all, speed, strength, power, guts. Everything except aforementioned chin

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 23 Oct 2005, 16:00

Thought of a couple of more. Rene Aredondo, Alex Raomos, Howard Davis. Davis kept from getting knocked out more often mainly because he fought defensevly, but looked shakey whenever he got hit.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 23 Oct 2005, 16:14

..tony anthony...light heavy....a guy about whom it was often said..."would break a manager's heart." worth your time to check him out.

tippy larkin....superb boxer...could punch a but....but a chin stright from dresden.

coley wallace might have gone a lot further with a better chin. about him..the phrase "swan neck" was used so often he really got pissed when it was.

kick asner · Post by **kick asner** » 23 Oct 2005, 23:10

Here's two more I forgot about, Roger Mayweather, and James Pritchard. Although some of Pritchard's problem could have been lack of defensive skill.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 27 Oct 2005, 02:51

..i think it was drugs and general disippation that was cooper's downfall moreso than a china chin.

Syntax Error · Post by **Syntax Error** » 27 Oct 2005, 08:17

theone wrote:first of all Hearns didnt develop a shaky chin until after he fought Haglar. It was noticably right after when he fough Juan Roldan. A fighter with a glass jaw would not have been able to take the battering Hearns took from Leonard and Haglar for as long as he did.

And even if he did have a glass jaw in his prime, he still shouldnt be mention in this post because he reached greatness anyway.

That is true, but his chin let him down in some of his biggest defining fights. Nobody said he has a glass jaw as such, but just that if his chin was better, he would be the greatest.

barry · Post by **barry** » 27 Oct 2005, 09:10

Good call on Tony Mundine...viscous puncher that just couldn't take one on the chin...his chin and power combination was similar to Morrison, though Mundine was better in other area's.

Some others:

Ricardo Moreno
Battling Torres
Florentino Fernandez
"Bombardier" Billy Wells

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 27 Oct 2005, 09:33

Watch Bert Cooper's war with Ray Mercer and tell me he had a glass jaw.

barry · Post by **barry** » 27 Oct 2005, 09:39

Cooper's downfall was due to drugs, alcohol and lack of training!

ShoeShine · Post by **ShoeShine** » 27 Oct 2005, 09:44

Syntax Error wrote:Thomas Hearns! Not a glass jaw in the strictest sense, but if he had been able to take a punch, the way Hagler could, he would have been the greatest fighter of all time, no doubt.

I wouldnt say that Hearns had a problem taking punches as much as he had stanima issues ...he was tall and lanky and just didnt have the legs sometimes.

TheRiverCityHippy · Post by **TheRiverCityHippy** » 27 Oct 2005, 11:23

years ago i remember as a lad watching errol christie run up an impressive string of early knockouts only for him to get sparked early himself in one particular fight. when he strung a few more impressive ko wins together after the ko loss it looked like he just had been caught cold on a bad night and normal service had been resumed but all of a sudden he started getting ko`ed everytime anything landed near his chin.
he looked the part early on in his career though.

sharkeysboy · Post by **sharkeysboy** » 27 Oct 2005, 14:17

Tiger Flowers - He was pretty good anyway.

Rocky Graziano - You could argue that Rocky's problem was no defense rather than no chin but if he had LaMotta's chin he would have been pretty formidable.