No Whining
There's big sign on the front window of the gym were my grandson works out. It reads"No Whining". I'm thinking of getting that tattoed on my forehead.
Now that I'm retired,I feel good that I have more room to get away from people that piss and moan about every little thing. When I was working at the school district I ran into gripers like sticking my head in a bee hive. Sometimes I'd let it slide. Sometimes I'd feel their pain. Sometimes I'd make a joke of it. Sometimes I'd tell them to get a life.
"I don't like the prep period the principal gave me,"said this biddy to me one day.
"Well you can quit and then you'd have all the time in the world off,"I came back with.
"I don't want to sign in at the front desk in the morning,"said this piece of work."It's not in our contract so I don't have to do it."
"All the principal wants to know is if you're on campus."
"No, I won't do it.It violates the union."
"I don't want to go to the faculty meeting after school."
"Why?"I asked.
"We have to listen to the superintendent and I don't like him."
"So where are you going?"
"I'm going shopping."
"What if they make us sign in?"
"Will you sign in for me?"
"Hell no."
"Why?"
"Because you're a chronic whiner."
"Well I'll find someone else then."
That was just an example. I'm sure all of you can come up with similar test cases. But think for a moment.Are you a whiner? I mean whiners usually can't see themslves as being whiners. Or they justify their whinings.
After reading what I just wrote,I figured out that my biggest task ahead of me is to not whine about whiners.
Classic American West Coast Boxing
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
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- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Danny Lopez
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Thank You for that Great explaination of where San Diego is now military wise. I can see it IS STILL a military town.(city). It's also wonderful to see them recognized by the people who own PetCo Park. Well deserved that we can can honor our service people with a Ball game every now and then.
The Yankees and Mets do the same here but not every week. During our Fleet Week Holiday-just about every establishment in NYC is all open arms to our military personnel. The mighty ships would dock on the westside of Manhattan, and those not holding down the watch took their "leave" amongst the city dwellers. Those living on the East Coast would work a deal to go home to New Jersey,Upstate NY,Conn and be with love ones. Others stayed on-ship and visit the museums, sports games taking place, and restaurants. and certainly pubs. For the 20 years I worked on the Westside near Times Square, there was only two other firehouses that were closer to the ships than us. All of the Firehouses were innundated with personnel of all ranks visiting us daily. Pre-9/11; and much more so after 9/11. We gave away 500 firehouse T-shirts each year to the crews as they came by till they were all gone. Not looking for anything in exchange-higher ranking officers invited us to their ships for private tours when we were on duty.
We accepted each time and stayed in service by our radios with our dispatchers if an alarm came in. We all had lunch with the Captains in the galleys of the USS Iowa and its all teak wood deck (just months before the explosion); USS Kennedy (Aircraft Carrier and many others) on intermittant Years. After work, we met up with the servicemen out on the town and showed them the city on a personal view that they would have never got to see on their own. Those were great memories I'll never forget.
One funny memory was some 35 crew mwmbers from a battleship were all from down south or midwest. They came to our firehouse to visit. They were hungry and wanted to know where they can experience one of New York's biggest landmarks-The famed "dirty water dog" from a street cart. 4 firemen immediately ran over to Broadway (next block over from us) and commandeered a hotdog cart,followed by its owner. We parked it in the firehouse and the owner dished out Hotdogs to every seaman that came in off the avenue over the next five hours (till the 400 hundred dogs were gone). Souped up with the works kraut,mustard,ketchup,onions anything they wanted. Sodas,knishes. We emptied the cart. The firehouse paid the bill and we made many sailors happy as hell that day.
This year our Congress screwed up the budget so bad, Fleet Week was cancelled with the Govt cuts. At Congress level, they see it as a un-necessary expenditure. Along with the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds air shows. I can tell you that Fleet Week was a momentous occaision here and a necessary break from sea-duty. As you stated before- that huge budget and no room for the nicer things of duty and the feeling of accolades they All got here just walking down the street, much less just walking into many places. Standing Ovations All.
The Yankees and Mets do the same here but not every week. During our Fleet Week Holiday-just about every establishment in NYC is all open arms to our military personnel. The mighty ships would dock on the westside of Manhattan, and those not holding down the watch took their "leave" amongst the city dwellers. Those living on the East Coast would work a deal to go home to New Jersey,Upstate NY,Conn and be with love ones. Others stayed on-ship and visit the museums, sports games taking place, and restaurants. and certainly pubs. For the 20 years I worked on the Westside near Times Square, there was only two other firehouses that were closer to the ships than us. All of the Firehouses were innundated with personnel of all ranks visiting us daily. Pre-9/11; and much more so after 9/11. We gave away 500 firehouse T-shirts each year to the crews as they came by till they were all gone. Not looking for anything in exchange-higher ranking officers invited us to their ships for private tours when we were on duty.
We accepted each time and stayed in service by our radios with our dispatchers if an alarm came in. We all had lunch with the Captains in the galleys of the USS Iowa and its all teak wood deck (just months before the explosion); USS Kennedy (Aircraft Carrier and many others) on intermittant Years. After work, we met up with the servicemen out on the town and showed them the city on a personal view that they would have never got to see on their own. Those were great memories I'll never forget.
One funny memory was some 35 crew mwmbers from a battleship were all from down south or midwest. They came to our firehouse to visit. They were hungry and wanted to know where they can experience one of New York's biggest landmarks-The famed "dirty water dog" from a street cart. 4 firemen immediately ran over to Broadway (next block over from us) and commandeered a hotdog cart,followed by its owner. We parked it in the firehouse and the owner dished out Hotdogs to every seaman that came in off the avenue over the next five hours (till the 400 hundred dogs were gone). Souped up with the works kraut,mustard,ketchup,onions anything they wanted. Sodas,knishes. We emptied the cart. The firehouse paid the bill and we made many sailors happy as hell that day.
This year our Congress screwed up the budget so bad, Fleet Week was cancelled with the Govt cuts. At Congress level, they see it as a un-necessary expenditure. Along with the Blue Angels and Thunderbirds air shows. I can tell you that Fleet Week was a momentous occaision here and a necessary break from sea-duty. As you stated before- that huge budget and no room for the nicer things of duty and the feeling of accolades they All got here just walking down the street, much less just walking into many places. Standing Ovations All.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Their Time
I asked Tiger Smalls if he could do a guest presentation for my grand daughter's high school psychology class.He said he'd do it,but he was a little hesitant with his reply. I told him that if he came across to those high school kids like he does when he's at the gym,it would be a lead pipe cinch.
Tiger wanted to know if I'd be there. Amanda also asked if I'd show up. No. This was their moment. I wanted Tiger and Amanda, and that class,to be experience those feelings. I wanted it for them. Not me.
Of course I wanted everything to go smoothly. I didn't want the unexpected to interfere with that presentation. Nothing did. It went off like I had hoped.
No, I can't really tell you what happened. I picked up Amanda from school that day and she told me every one was engrossed with Tiger's presentation.Her teacher said it was the best presentation she ever had in her class. Tiger brought his title belts. He brought his key to the city that Mayor Filner gave him. He brought his family. I didn't know Tiger was going to bring the wife and kids.If I had known that I would have been there. I would have liked to have met Tiger's family.
But from what Tiger and Amanda told me about the other day,I was pleased. I imagined that it couldn't have come off any better if it were planned. Like I said though,I really would have liked to meet Tiger's family.
Next week I am going to speak in front of Amanda's class.Amanda volunteered me. I have a tough act to follow.All I want is for the teacher to say after it's over that it was the second best presentation ever.
Tiger Smalls and family in the main event at Amanda's psychology class.
I asked Tiger Smalls if he could do a guest presentation for my grand daughter's high school psychology class.He said he'd do it,but he was a little hesitant with his reply. I told him that if he came across to those high school kids like he does when he's at the gym,it would be a lead pipe cinch.
Tiger wanted to know if I'd be there. Amanda also asked if I'd show up. No. This was their moment. I wanted Tiger and Amanda, and that class,to be experience those feelings. I wanted it for them. Not me.
Of course I wanted everything to go smoothly. I didn't want the unexpected to interfere with that presentation. Nothing did. It went off like I had hoped.
No, I can't really tell you what happened. I picked up Amanda from school that day and she told me every one was engrossed with Tiger's presentation.Her teacher said it was the best presentation she ever had in her class. Tiger brought his title belts. He brought his key to the city that Mayor Filner gave him. He brought his family. I didn't know Tiger was going to bring the wife and kids.If I had known that I would have been there. I would have liked to have met Tiger's family.
But from what Tiger and Amanda told me about the other day,I was pleased. I imagined that it couldn't have come off any better if it were planned. Like I said though,I really would have liked to meet Tiger's family.
Next week I am going to speak in front of Amanda's class.Amanda volunteered me. I have a tough act to follow.All I want is for the teacher to say after it's over that it was the second best presentation ever.
Tiger Smalls and family in the main event at Amanda's psychology class.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Wow-we never had presentations like that 45 years ago.!!! 
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:Their Time
I asked Tiger Smalls if he could do a guest presentation for my grand daughter's high school psychology class.He said he'd do it,but he was a little hesitant with his reply. I told him that if he came across to those high school kids like he does when he's at the gym,it would be a lead pipe cinch.
Tiger wanted to know if I'd be there. Amanda also asked if I'd show up. No. This was their moment. I wanted Tiger and Amanda, and that class,to be experience those feelings. I wanted it for them. Not me.
Of course I wanted everything to go smoothly. I didn't want the unexpected to interfere with that presentation. Nothing did. It went off like I had hoped.
No, I can't really tell you what happened. I picked up Amanda from school that day and she told me every one was engrossed with Tiger's presentation.Her teacher said it was the best presentation she ever had in her class. Tiger brought his title belts. He brought his key to the city that Mayor Filner gave him. He brought his family. I didn't know Tiger was going to bring the wife and kids.If I had known that I would have been there. I would have liked to have met Tiger's family.
But from what Tiger and Amanda told me about the other day,I was pleased. I imagined that it couldn't have come off any better if it were planned. Like I said though,I really would have liked to meet Tiger's family.
Next week I am going to speak in front of Amanda's class.Amanda volunteered me. I have a tough act to follow.All I want is for the teacher to say after it's over that it was the second best presentation ever.
Tiger Smalls and family in the main event at Amanda's psychology class.
Rog, we spoke about this the other night, but this photos tells a lot. This was a good situation for everybody involved, Tiger, his family, and most of all the kids. This was your idea, and I bet it made an impression on everybody involved, people saw things from a different perspective. You are a special man, Roger. Brilliant idea!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CNorkusJr wrote:At the fights last week, I ran into Ring 10 President Matt Farrago. Ring 10 is just like Ring 8, and runs out of the Bronx,NY. They are having a dinner in Sept featuring a reunion of Livingston Bramble and Ray "Boom Boom "Mancini. He went on to say that this will be the first time the two were in the same room at the same time in 28 years.
(Apparently hard feelings were felt for whatever reasons). Matt called Bramble first asking him to attend the event. He said right away he would. Matt then said he crossed his fingers and said I would like to invite Boom Boom, does that change things ? Bramble said "no- no problem on my end-I'll still be there".
Matt then called Mancini (who Matt said "lives in LA now, doing some film work when he can get it"). Right away Matt said he told Boom Boom that he would like him to fly out, and so does it make a difference if Bramble is there as well.? Mancini said "no problem". Matt reminded him that it will be 28 years since the two met and Boom Boom said sometrhing like "seems like to long a time- I'll be there". So far So good, says Matt.
Charley, Ray Mancini lives in Santa Monica, close to flmmaker Alan Swyer ("El Boxeo").
He will be attending the screening of the film this summer in Hollywood, and so will you if can join us?
Sounds like an interesting meeting this coming september. I remember well Mancini-Bramble.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
El Gallo wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:Their Time
I asked Tiger Smalls if he could do a guest presentation for my grand daughter's high school psychology class.He said he'd do it,but he was a little hesitant with his reply. I told him that if he came across to those high school kids like he does when he's at the gym,it would be a lead pipe cinch.
Tiger wanted to know if I'd be there. Amanda also asked if I'd show up. No. This was their moment. I wanted Tiger and Amanda, and that class,to be experience those feelings. I wanted it for them. Not me.
Of course I wanted everything to go smoothly. I didn't want the unexpected to interfere with that presentation. Nothing did. It went off like I had hoped.
No, I can't really tell you what happened. I picked up Amanda from school that day and she told me every one was engrossed with Tiger's presentation.Her teacher said it was the best presentation she ever had in her class. Tiger brought his title belts. He brought his key to the city that Mayor Filner gave him. He brought his family. I didn't know Tiger was going to bring the wife and kids.If I had known that I would have been there. I would have liked to have met Tiger's family.
But from what Tiger and Amanda told me about the other day,I was pleased. I imagined that it couldn't have come off any better if it were planned. Like I said though,I really would have liked to meet Tiger's family.
Next week I am going to speak in front of Amanda's class.Amanda volunteered me. I have a tough act to follow.All I want is for the teacher to say after it's over that it was the second best presentation ever.
Tiger Smalls and family in the main event at Amanda's psychology class.
Rog, we spoke about this the other night, but this photos tells a lot. This was a good situation for everybody involved, Tiger, his family, and most of all the kids. This was your idea, and I bet it made an impression on everybody involved, people saw things from a different perspective. You are a special man, Roger. Brilliant idea!
Thanks Rick,but you know you have to do what you feel right in your heart. You have to live with yourself and that can be the hardest thing to do ,or by making others feel happy the battle inside is more winnable. However that battle goes on,but if you know what you have to do, just say"bring it on baby!"
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Baby Arizmendi
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Last Call
Ed the bartender walked over to Ollie and Clyde who were sitting at the end of the bar. They'd been sitting there drinking since getting off work.
"Last call fellas.What it be?"
"Two more tequilas ,"said Ollie spreading his change on the bar.
"Yeah,two more tequilas Ed,"said Clyde pulling a crumpled 10 dollar bill out of his shirt pocket.
Both boys had been drinking pretty steady.Both thought they knew everything by that time.
"I'm telling you Ollie it all has to do with distance. Jack Britton fought so long ago nobody remembers him."
"That has to do with time. Not distance,"said Ollie leaning his elbows on the bar.
"Time,distance. It's all the same."
Ed came over and filled the shot glasses with the clear liquid.
"So what makes you think Jack Britton could beat anyone out there today?"stammered Clyde.
"The man had over 300 fights.Fought 'em all."
"And there's no film on him. So how do you know? You don't even know how he fought."
"They say no one boxed like Jack Britton."
"Don't talk to me about what Ernest Hemingway said in that story about him.I tired of you telling that."
"Hemingway was smart,"said Ollie.
"Yeah,that's why he shot himself,"said Clyde with a laugh.
"And who do you think was better?"
"I don't know and I don't care."
"Don't give me that 'I don't care crap,'"said Ollie starting to heat up."Benny Leonard couldn't beat him."
"The boxing historians say that Leonard fouled him because he didn't want the welter title."
"Those were the Jewish writers that put that out. They wouldn't believe their hero could lose to the Irishman," said Ollie finishing his tequila.
"I've never heard the contrary."
"That's because you don't read and are lazy.The New York papers the morning after that fight described each round. Britton was way ahead."
"All I know is there ain't anyone alive today that saw Jack Britton fight,"said Clyde throwing out his chest .
"Yeah,and there ain't no one around that saw George Washington either."
Ed the bartender walked over to Ollie and Clyde who were sitting at the end of the bar. They'd been sitting there drinking since getting off work.
"Last call fellas.What it be?"
"Two more tequilas ,"said Ollie spreading his change on the bar.
"Yeah,two more tequilas Ed,"said Clyde pulling a crumpled 10 dollar bill out of his shirt pocket.
Both boys had been drinking pretty steady.Both thought they knew everything by that time.
"I'm telling you Ollie it all has to do with distance. Jack Britton fought so long ago nobody remembers him."
"That has to do with time. Not distance,"said Ollie leaning his elbows on the bar.
"Time,distance. It's all the same."
Ed came over and filled the shot glasses with the clear liquid.
"So what makes you think Jack Britton could beat anyone out there today?"stammered Clyde.
"The man had over 300 fights.Fought 'em all."
"And there's no film on him. So how do you know? You don't even know how he fought."
"They say no one boxed like Jack Britton."
"Don't talk to me about what Ernest Hemingway said in that story about him.I tired of you telling that."
"Hemingway was smart,"said Ollie.
"Yeah,that's why he shot himself,"said Clyde with a laugh.
"And who do you think was better?"
"I don't know and I don't care."
"Don't give me that 'I don't care crap,'"said Ollie starting to heat up."Benny Leonard couldn't beat him."
"The boxing historians say that Leonard fouled him because he didn't want the welter title."
"Those were the Jewish writers that put that out. They wouldn't believe their hero could lose to the Irishman," said Ollie finishing his tequila.
"I've never heard the contrary."
"That's because you don't read and are lazy.The New York papers the morning after that fight described each round. Britton was way ahead."
"All I know is there ain't anyone alive today that saw Jack Britton fight,"said Clyde throwing out his chest .
"Yeah,and there ain't no one around that saw George Washington either."
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Brother's Tale
"You still post on that boxing thread?"asked Willie
"Yeah. I'm on their now."
Willie was at the shoeshine stand sitting on a chair next to the door.He'd let his whiskers grow out.The steel gray of his beard went with the gnarled skin of his hands. When he talked you could see a couple of gold teeth in front. When I walked down State Street I'd always stop to say hello. Sometimes I'd get a shine.
"So what are you arguing about now?"he asked me.
"We've got this thing going whether the punch Ali hit Liston with in the second fight was a phantom punch or not."
"How many times has that been beat around?"
"About a million."
"So what do you think?"
"I think it was a real punch."
"That punch couldn't have broken a egg,"said Willie smiling.
"Dundee said it was real."
"What else is he gonna' say?"
"I'm having an argument with this one guy on that thread who I'd like to kick his ass."
"Nobody ever changes their minds on that stuff. They think they know it all."
"So do you think the fight was fixed?"
"No,but I know what really happened. It was all quite simple."
I climbed up onto the seat in Willie's booth and asked for a shine. I wanted to hear what he had to say.
"You see I was close to Liston's family in Arkansas. That's were we're from. Farmers in Arkansas."
"Didn't he have a lot of brothers and sisters?"
"They stopped counting after 20."
"So how do you know about his second fight with Ali?"
"Sonny told his brother the story and he told me."
Willie put the cardboard inserts in my shoes and opened a can of clear polish.
"Remember the first fight,?" asked Willie starting to smear the polish around my shoes.
"Sure.We all saw that."
"Sonny couldn't pin Ali down. Ali was simply too fast. The only time Liston got close to him is when he rubbed his shoulder full of linament in his eyes.When that didn't work,Liston quit in his corner. He knew he was going to be stopped. Humiliated."
"So how does that connect to the second fight?"
"This is the way his brother ran it down to me. Liston figured that if Ali knew he was hurt real bad,he get in their and finish him off. Liston knew that then he could reach him and could hit him with his bombs. Ali would come to him."
"I'm beginning to see the picture."
"So Sonny wanted to pull this off when he's fresh. He waits for Ali to land something in the first round and then falls down rolling around like he was shot."
"Go on."
"But when Ali sees Sonny rolling around he stands over him instead of going to a neutral corner."
Willie stopped shining my shoes for a moment.
"Sonny was listening to Walcott's count.He got up in time. But that little prick Nat Fleischer had to butt in and tells that dummy Walcott that Liston had been down for too long. So Walcott waves it off."
"Amazing."
"The first thing Ali asked Dundee was if the fight was fixed. He knew he didn't hit him that hard."
"So why didn't this come out before?"
"Who in the hell would believe it? "
"Liston never talked about it."
"If he did,they would of laughed him out of town. It ruined him anyway."
Willie began slapping the rag on top of my shoes.
"Maybe I'll put that on the thread,"I said.
"If you do,don't tell 'em I told you."
Sonny Liston
"You still post on that boxing thread?"asked Willie
"Yeah. I'm on their now."
Willie was at the shoeshine stand sitting on a chair next to the door.He'd let his whiskers grow out.The steel gray of his beard went with the gnarled skin of his hands. When he talked you could see a couple of gold teeth in front. When I walked down State Street I'd always stop to say hello. Sometimes I'd get a shine.
"So what are you arguing about now?"he asked me.
"We've got this thing going whether the punch Ali hit Liston with in the second fight was a phantom punch or not."
"How many times has that been beat around?"
"About a million."
"So what do you think?"
"I think it was a real punch."
"That punch couldn't have broken a egg,"said Willie smiling.
"Dundee said it was real."
"What else is he gonna' say?"
"I'm having an argument with this one guy on that thread who I'd like to kick his ass."
"Nobody ever changes their minds on that stuff. They think they know it all."
"So do you think the fight was fixed?"
"No,but I know what really happened. It was all quite simple."
I climbed up onto the seat in Willie's booth and asked for a shine. I wanted to hear what he had to say.
"You see I was close to Liston's family in Arkansas. That's were we're from. Farmers in Arkansas."
"Didn't he have a lot of brothers and sisters?"
"They stopped counting after 20."
"So how do you know about his second fight with Ali?"
"Sonny told his brother the story and he told me."
Willie put the cardboard inserts in my shoes and opened a can of clear polish.
"Remember the first fight,?" asked Willie starting to smear the polish around my shoes.
"Sure.We all saw that."
"Sonny couldn't pin Ali down. Ali was simply too fast. The only time Liston got close to him is when he rubbed his shoulder full of linament in his eyes.When that didn't work,Liston quit in his corner. He knew he was going to be stopped. Humiliated."
"So how does that connect to the second fight?"
"This is the way his brother ran it down to me. Liston figured that if Ali knew he was hurt real bad,he get in their and finish him off. Liston knew that then he could reach him and could hit him with his bombs. Ali would come to him."
"I'm beginning to see the picture."
"So Sonny wanted to pull this off when he's fresh. He waits for Ali to land something in the first round and then falls down rolling around like he was shot."
"Go on."
"But when Ali sees Sonny rolling around he stands over him instead of going to a neutral corner."
Willie stopped shining my shoes for a moment.
"Sonny was listening to Walcott's count.He got up in time. But that little prick Nat Fleischer had to butt in and tells that dummy Walcott that Liston had been down for too long. So Walcott waves it off."
"Amazing."
"The first thing Ali asked Dundee was if the fight was fixed. He knew he didn't hit him that hard."
"So why didn't this come out before?"
"Who in the hell would believe it? "
"Liston never talked about it."
"If he did,they would of laughed him out of town. It ruined him anyway."
Willie began slapping the rag on top of my shoes.
"Maybe I'll put that on the thread,"I said.
"If you do,don't tell 'em I told you."
Sonny Liston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:Brother's Tale
"You still post on that boxing thread?"asked Willie
"Yeah. I'm on their now."
Willie was at the shoeshine stand sitting on a chair next to the door.He'd let his whiskers grow out.The steel gray of his beard went with the gnarled skin of his hands. When he talked you could see a couple of gold teeth in front. When I walked down State Street I'd always stop to say hello. Sometimes I'd get a shine.
"So what are you arguing about now?"he asked me.
"We've got this thing going whether the punch Ali hit Liston with in the second fight was a phantom punch or not."
"How many times has that been beat around?"
"About a million."
"So what do you think?"
"I think it was a real punch."
"That punch couldn't have broken a egg,"said Willie smiling.
"Dundee said it was real."
"What else is he gonna' say?"
"I'm having an argument with this one guy on that thread who I'd like to kick his ass."
"Nobody ever changes their minds on that stuff. They think they know it all."
"So do you think the fight was fixed?"
"No,but I know what really happened. It was all quite simple."
I climbed up onto the seat in Willie's booth and asked for a shine. I wanted to hear what he had to say.
"You see I was close to Liston's family in Arkansas. That's were we're from. Farmers in Arkansas."
"Didn't he have a lot of brothers and sisters?"
"They stopped counting after 20."
"So how do you know about his second fight with Ali?"
"Sonny told his brother the story and he told me."
Willie put the cardboard inserts in my shoes and opened a can of clear polish.
"Remember the first fight,?" asked Willie starting to smear the polish around my shoes.
"Sure.We all saw that."
"Sonny couldn't pin Ali down. Ali was simply too fast. The only time Liston got close to him is when he rubbed his shoulder full of linament in his eyes.When that didn't work,Liston quit in his corner. He knew he was going to be stopped. Humiliated."
"So how does that connect to the second fight?"
"This is the way his brother ran it down to me. Liston figured that if Ali knew he was hurt real bad,he get in their and finish him off. Liston knew that then he could reach him and could hit him with his bombs. Ali would come to him."
"I'm beginning to see the picture."
"So Sonny wanted to pull this off when he's fresh. He waits for Ali to land something in the first round and then falls down rolling around like he was shot."
"Go on."
"But when Ali sees Sonny rolling around he stands over him instead of going to a neutral corner."
Willie stopped shining my shoes for a moment.
"Sonny was listening to Walcott's count.He got up in time. But that little prick Nat Fleischer had to butt in and tells that dummy Walcott that Liston had been down for too long. So Walcott waves it off."
"Amazing."
"The first thing Ali asked Dundee was if the fight was fixed. He knew he didn't hit him that hard."
"So why didn't this come out before?"
"Who in the hell would believe it? "
"Liston never talked about it."
"If he did,they would of laughed him out of town. It ruined him anyway."
Willie began slapping the rag on top of my shoes.
"Maybe I'll put that on the thread,"I said.
"If you do,don't tell 'em I told you."
Sonny Liston
Dagos....I'm going to flat out steal this contribution, and stick it into a thread that has a live conversation going on in the Boxers of the Past Forum.
It's a perfect fit for that thread, and hell, I think the substance has good odds at being the truth.
Hey even if it's not the gospel, it's the best "concoction" I've heard yet on the subject.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
BoxBuzz wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:Brother's Tale
"You still post on that boxing thread?"asked Willie
"Yeah. I'm on their now."
Willie was at the shoeshine stand sitting on a chair next to the door.He'd let his whiskers grow out.The steel gray of his beard went with the gnarled skin of his hands. When he talked you could see a couple of gold teeth in front. When I walked down State Street I'd always stop to say hello. Sometimes I'd get a shine.
"So what are you arguing about now?"he asked me.
"We've got this thing going whether the punch Ali hit Liston with in the second fight was a phantom punch or not."
"How many times has that been beat around?"
"About a million."
"So what do you think?"
"I think it was a real punch."
"That punch couldn't have broken a egg,"said Willie smiling.
"Dundee said it was real."
"What else is he gonna' say?"
"I'm having an argument with this one guy on that thread who I'd like to kick his ass."
"Nobody ever changes their minds on that stuff. They think they know it all."
"So do you think the fight was fixed?"
"No,but I know what really happened. It was all quite simple."
I climbed up onto the seat in Willie's booth and asked for a shine. I wanted to hear what he had to say.
"You see I was close to Liston's family in Arkansas. That's were we're from. Farmers in Arkansas."
"Didn't he have a lot of brothers and sisters?"
"They stopped counting after 20."
"So how do you know about his second fight with Ali?"
"Sonny told his brother the story and he told me."
Willie put the cardboard inserts in my shoes and opened a can of clear polish.
"Remember the first fight,?" asked Willie starting to smear the polish around my shoes.
"Sure.We all saw that."
"Sonny couldn't pin Ali down. Ali was simply too fast. The only time Liston got close to him is when he rubbed his shoulder full of linament in his eyes.When that didn't work,Liston quit in his corner. He knew he was going to be stopped. Humiliated."
"So how does that connect to the second fight?"
"This is the way his brother ran it down to me. Liston figured that if Ali knew he was hurt real bad,he get in their and finish him off. Liston knew that then he could reach him and could hit him with his bombs. Ali would come to him."
"I'm beginning to see the picture."
"So Sonny wanted to pull this off when he's fresh. He waits for Ali to land something in the first round and then falls down rolling around like he was shot."
"Go on."
"But when Ali sees Sonny rolling around he stands over him instead of going to a neutral corner."
Willie stopped shining my shoes for a moment.
"Sonny was listening to Walcott's count.He got up in time. But that little prick Nat Fleischer had to butt in and tells that dummy Walcott that Liston had been down for too long. So Walcott waves it off."
"Amazing."
"The first thing Ali asked Dundee was if the fight was fixed. He knew he didn't hit him that hard."
"So why didn't this come out before?"
"Who in the hell would believe it? "
"Liston never talked about it."
"If he did,they would of laughed him out of town. It ruined him anyway."
Willie began slapping the rag on top of my shoes.
"Maybe I'll put that on the thread,"I said.
"If you do,don't tell 'em I told you."
Sonny Liston
Dagos....I'm going to flat out steal this contribution, and stick it into a thread that has a live conversation going on in the Boxers of the Past Forum.
It's a perfect fit for that thread, and hell, I think the substance has good odds at being the truth.
Hey even if it's not the gospel, it's the best "concoction" I've heard yet on the subject.
Be my guest. Just don't send them over here. I don't have the time or the motivation to go back and forth with these guys.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Silencio
Evertime I go to Canon Jhonson to visit my daughter I pass a gym on the way called "El Terra". On the window is a hand painted sign saying it's a boxing gym."El Terra" is on the second floor of a small building in Colonia Independencia. The first floor is occupied by a "carniceria." The neighborhood is a typical old colonia in Tijuana near downtown . The gym would be hard to find unless you are familiar with the city,however I asked my grandson,who lives in Canon Jhonson which is next to Independencia, if he knew about "El Terra",and he said he had never heard of it.
Today I went to Tijuana to get one of my paintings framed for show coming up. After the work was completed,I took a drive up the hill to see the gym. I had my camera with me.I parked the car across the street.The day was sunny and warm and the neighborhood was moving along without desperation.I walked up the stairs.The door was open.It was dim inside and it took a moment for my eyes to focus. A boy was sitting on a chair watching television.
"Como estas?"I said.
The boy turned in his seat and looked wide eyed at me. He was dark skinned with thick black hair. He looked to be around twelve,but sometimes it's hard to tell for an American. The boy could have been older. The boy didn't answer.
"I am an American. My grandson wants to learn how to box. He lives in Canon Jhonson,"I said.
The boy muttered something I couldn't understand.
"Who is the owner? "
The boy said a name that I didn't understand.
"Are you the only one here?"
"Si,"he answered.
"Who trains the fighters? Was he a fighter?"
The boy looked at me . I could see he couldn't understand this.
"Is it all right if I take a picture?"
"Why?"
"I want to show my grandson what the gym looks like."
The boy didn't answer. I took a picture.
"See,"I said,"One picture."
The boy was still looking at me moving slightly in his chair.
"What is the name of the gym?"
The boy pointed at the sign.
"Well good. I'll be going."
I held out my hand. The boy hardly shook it. Before I left I wanted a good look at the place. I didn't want to take another picture. The gloves on a shelf and the punching bags were old and used.The ring mat was scuffed up. There were Mexican flags and a picture of Julio Cesar Chavez on the wall. I walked down to the car.
I wished the owner would have been there. He probably was the trainer also. I wished I could have seen some fighters.There was only the boy. I tried to tell him that I was there because my grandson who lived in Canon Jhonson was interested in joining up. Like I said, the boy didn't offer much.When I got home,I asked my wife what "terra" meant. She didn't know. I asked my grand daughter's husband. He didn't know either.I looked up "terra" in the Spanish dictionary. There was no word,"terra."After sizing up my experience at that gym, I got what I deserved.
Evertime I go to Canon Jhonson to visit my daughter I pass a gym on the way called "El Terra". On the window is a hand painted sign saying it's a boxing gym."El Terra" is on the second floor of a small building in Colonia Independencia. The first floor is occupied by a "carniceria." The neighborhood is a typical old colonia in Tijuana near downtown . The gym would be hard to find unless you are familiar with the city,however I asked my grandson,who lives in Canon Jhonson which is next to Independencia, if he knew about "El Terra",and he said he had never heard of it.
Today I went to Tijuana to get one of my paintings framed for show coming up. After the work was completed,I took a drive up the hill to see the gym. I had my camera with me.I parked the car across the street.The day was sunny and warm and the neighborhood was moving along without desperation.I walked up the stairs.The door was open.It was dim inside and it took a moment for my eyes to focus. A boy was sitting on a chair watching television.
"Como estas?"I said.
The boy turned in his seat and looked wide eyed at me. He was dark skinned with thick black hair. He looked to be around twelve,but sometimes it's hard to tell for an American. The boy could have been older. The boy didn't answer.
"I am an American. My grandson wants to learn how to box. He lives in Canon Jhonson,"I said.
The boy muttered something I couldn't understand.
"Who is the owner? "
The boy said a name that I didn't understand.
"Are you the only one here?"
"Si,"he answered.
"Who trains the fighters? Was he a fighter?"
The boy looked at me . I could see he couldn't understand this.
"Is it all right if I take a picture?"
"Why?"
"I want to show my grandson what the gym looks like."
The boy didn't answer. I took a picture.
"See,"I said,"One picture."
The boy was still looking at me moving slightly in his chair.
"What is the name of the gym?"
The boy pointed at the sign.
"Well good. I'll be going."
I held out my hand. The boy hardly shook it. Before I left I wanted a good look at the place. I didn't want to take another picture. The gloves on a shelf and the punching bags were old and used.The ring mat was scuffed up. There were Mexican flags and a picture of Julio Cesar Chavez on the wall. I walked down to the car.
I wished the owner would have been there. He probably was the trainer also. I wished I could have seen some fighters.There was only the boy. I tried to tell him that I was there because my grandson who lived in Canon Jhonson was interested in joining up. Like I said, the boy didn't offer much.When I got home,I asked my wife what "terra" meant. She didn't know. I asked my grand daughter's husband. He didn't know either.I looked up "terra" in the Spanish dictionary. There was no word,"terra."After sizing up my experience at that gym, I got what I deserved.
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
I had a great meeting today with filmmaker Alan Swyer, and Jacquie Richardson & Alex Ramos of the Retired Boxer's Foundation.
We are going to bring something special to Boxing in a few months. Will keep you posted!
We are going to bring something special to Boxing in a few months. Will keep you posted!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
How's Alex doing Rick ?. Can he get around on his his own ?El Gallo wrote:I had a great meeting today with filmmaker Alan Swyer, and Jacquie Richardson & Alex Ramos of the Retired Boxer's Foundation.
We are going to bring something special to Boxing in a few months. Will keep you posted!
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
CNorkusJr wrote:How's Alex doing Rick ?. Can he get around on his his own ?El Gallo wrote:I had a great meeting today with filmmaker Alan Swyer, and Jacquie Richardson & Alex Ramos of the Retired Boxer's Foundation.
We are going to bring something special to Boxing in a few months. Will keep you posted!
Jacquie picked him up and we met for lunch. He is always the same Alex, fun and interesting. We talked a lot about Puerto Rico, Hector Camacho, the RBF and the new organization. A treasure trove of history is Alex Ramos, and he gave a great interview in El Boxeo. We talked about the Bronx, and the legendary boxers featured in this film. We are going to hang out a bit next week, I'll pick him up. What a wonderful guy he is! As Jacquie points out, the dementia is progressing, and it's hard for him to do little things sometimes, like shaving. Jacquie Richardson is an angel! She is also well educated on the challenges that veteran boxers face, and the types of head trauma that fighters experience. It's an education, and it's clear to me that we are on the same page with regard to the future of veteran boxing events, and the proper respect for the fighters. But Alex is doing alright, the same Alex you know.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
My sincerest wishes to Dan Hanley and family for a speedy recovery for his wife who was recently hospitalized. My thoughts and prayers, and Maria's, are with you and your family. Your amigo,Rog
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
dagosd2000 wrote:My sincerest wishes to Dan Hanley and family for a speedy recovery for his wife who was recently hospitalized. My thoughts and prayers, and Maria's, are with you and your family. Your amigo,Rog
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Amen!El Gallo wrote:dagosd2000 wrote:My sincerest wishes to Dan Hanley and family for a speedy recovery for his wife who was recently hospitalized. My thoughts and prayers, and Maria's, are with you and your family. Your amigo,Rog
- Chuck Johnston
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Angela Hanley is back at home after a week in the hospital.
Is doing good!
Is doing good!
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Going Back
So today it was my turn to be the guest speaker in Amanda's psychology class. After two years being away from the classroom as a teacher,I didn't expect anything earth shattering. The only difference was that Amanda's school is comprised with students who are on the upper end. Where I was at in the South Bay area,the ecomomic rung was far lower.
It's not that important to go in depth about what I talked about. When I asked Amanda what I should discuss,she said,"just talk." Amanda told me she told the teacher that my grandfather,Diamond Joe,was in the mafia.Talk about having something of interest to share with teenagers . So I talked about him.I brought some old newspapers that headlined his murder. I brought some of my paintings. Pancho Villa,Edith Piaf,and Charlie Parker. No one had heard of them except the teacher and she just new the names. I explained that to me they were geniuses. Rising from obscurity. Poverty and illiteracy to creating something unparalled. All short lived like comets burning out among the stars.
I kept them going. It wasn't hard. I didn't have to teach to a specific lesson plan and worry that the principal would walk in to see if I was properly focused. I'd say those kids hadn't heard anything in their classrooms like that all year. I'm sure their teacher hadn't either. She was all smiles. I gave her a painting I had done of Freud as a present. It wasn't hard to fill up the hour. There were no heads down on the desks. I must have said something right.
I watch the news of how America's schools are failing. Our test scores are dropping behind more and more countries in the world. It's the fault of the schools. It's the fault of the parents. It's the fault of the teachers. The media. Less faith. Point the finger. America still spends more on education and individual student than any country in the world. So is there a problem? No.
School is a microcosm of everthing.There's violence inside and outside the classroom. There's success inside and outside the classroom. There are winners and losers inside and out. Go anywhere else in the world and you can see how everyone wants to emulate the United States.Keep emulating and your test scores will go down too. So we must be doing something the rest of the world wants. The rest of the world is the tail on the kite,the good 'ol US of A. But what is it they want? Of course,the rest of the world wants to have FUN.
So the complainers out there that want to turn back the clock,all I can say is get current. I guess if they want to make the present the past,they can always watch Ozzie and Harriet on Netflix.
So today it was my turn to be the guest speaker in Amanda's psychology class. After two years being away from the classroom as a teacher,I didn't expect anything earth shattering. The only difference was that Amanda's school is comprised with students who are on the upper end. Where I was at in the South Bay area,the ecomomic rung was far lower.
It's not that important to go in depth about what I talked about. When I asked Amanda what I should discuss,she said,"just talk." Amanda told me she told the teacher that my grandfather,Diamond Joe,was in the mafia.Talk about having something of interest to share with teenagers . So I talked about him.I brought some old newspapers that headlined his murder. I brought some of my paintings. Pancho Villa,Edith Piaf,and Charlie Parker. No one had heard of them except the teacher and she just new the names. I explained that to me they were geniuses. Rising from obscurity. Poverty and illiteracy to creating something unparalled. All short lived like comets burning out among the stars.
I kept them going. It wasn't hard. I didn't have to teach to a specific lesson plan and worry that the principal would walk in to see if I was properly focused. I'd say those kids hadn't heard anything in their classrooms like that all year. I'm sure their teacher hadn't either. She was all smiles. I gave her a painting I had done of Freud as a present. It wasn't hard to fill up the hour. There were no heads down on the desks. I must have said something right.
I watch the news of how America's schools are failing. Our test scores are dropping behind more and more countries in the world. It's the fault of the schools. It's the fault of the parents. It's the fault of the teachers. The media. Less faith. Point the finger. America still spends more on education and individual student than any country in the world. So is there a problem? No.
School is a microcosm of everthing.There's violence inside and outside the classroom. There's success inside and outside the classroom. There are winners and losers inside and out. Go anywhere else in the world and you can see how everyone wants to emulate the United States.Keep emulating and your test scores will go down too. So we must be doing something the rest of the world wants. The rest of the world is the tail on the kite,the good 'ol US of A. But what is it they want? Of course,the rest of the world wants to have FUN.
So the complainers out there that want to turn back the clock,all I can say is get current. I guess if they want to make the present the past,they can always watch Ozzie and Harriet on Netflix.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Pancho Villa
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
The Gym Rat
I tell my grandson Adam to hang out in the gym as much as he can. When I was younger it was the boxing gym or the weight lifting gym where I broke a sweat. The ball fields thrown into the mix and it was the best times I ever had. Of course that's how I see it now. I thought I could stay in shape forever.Be at that competitive level.
I read Jack Johnson's autobiography he wrote when he was around 50. He talked about how he was still at his best. Shortly after his book was published he was knocked out by Bearcat Wright by a shot to the stomach.
When I started to lose my physical talents,I tried to recoup my losses. All I got for my efforts was more pains and injuries. Today I'm content working out in the gym sitting down at the nautilus machines. I also walk and swim.I walk in the pool.
Watching Adam at the gym has been a recent pleasure. I think back about when I was young and strong. Now I am old and growing weaker. The cells replace themselves at a snails pace. Adam's cells are exploding. Imagine what it must be like to grow again. Not like me,around the middle.I wonder if those kids in that gym can understand what I'm trying to say.
But if my body is in decline,my experience has manifested itself into a wisdom maybe I can pass along. Someone said youth is wasted on the young. No. Youth will always make mistakes,but to make those same mistakes when I'm older is cheating myself from being a model for that young kid who can go ten rounds in the gym. If I can't draw on life's experiences,then I'm just an old fool who acts like a kid.
I tell my grandson Adam to hang out in the gym as much as he can. When I was younger it was the boxing gym or the weight lifting gym where I broke a sweat. The ball fields thrown into the mix and it was the best times I ever had. Of course that's how I see it now. I thought I could stay in shape forever.Be at that competitive level.
I read Jack Johnson's autobiography he wrote when he was around 50. He talked about how he was still at his best. Shortly after his book was published he was knocked out by Bearcat Wright by a shot to the stomach.
When I started to lose my physical talents,I tried to recoup my losses. All I got for my efforts was more pains and injuries. Today I'm content working out in the gym sitting down at the nautilus machines. I also walk and swim.I walk in the pool.
Watching Adam at the gym has been a recent pleasure. I think back about when I was young and strong. Now I am old and growing weaker. The cells replace themselves at a snails pace. Adam's cells are exploding. Imagine what it must be like to grow again. Not like me,around the middle.I wonder if those kids in that gym can understand what I'm trying to say.
But if my body is in decline,my experience has manifested itself into a wisdom maybe I can pass along. Someone said youth is wasted on the young. No. Youth will always make mistakes,but to make those same mistakes when I'm older is cheating myself from being a model for that young kid who can go ten rounds in the gym. If I can't draw on life's experiences,then I'm just an old fool who acts like a kid.
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dagosd2000
- Heavyweight
- Posts: 8638
- Joined: 01 Sep 2007, 03:31
Re: Classic American West Coast Boxing
Pascual Perez